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Can you feel the hate?

Old 11-02-20, 10:49 AM
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gthomson
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Can you feel the hate?

Because the internet is so good at knowing what my interests are based on all my browsing history, I am receiving more news articles related to local biking news. This year has had a big impact on cycling with everyone home and getting involved by buying, fixing and riding bikes and it seems some of my communities are responding by committing to more bike infrastructure to help cyclists out. My nearest city has committed to an extra 40 kmís in bike lanes throughout the downtown core for 2021.

What I find shocking is the backlash against these changes by the pro car/anti cyclist people. Any time I see a news article on social media, the comments section is hundreds of post long with people for or against and a lot of hatred between the two. It really disturbs me to see what some of these anti cyclist people say about this and almost scares me to be on the road knowing some of these people really want to prove their point?

Some of ongoing issues are cyclists should be licensed, they should pay extra taxes for these changes to bike lanes, they shouldnít be allowed on certain roads or that they should grow up and stop riding bikes! Really?

I drive a car and I ride a bike so I pay taxes and appreciate both for what they are. I will admit there are some cyclists who are bad apples and give us all a bad name, but guess what Ė the same goes for drivers! Cyclists usually donít kill people when they get in an accident!

Anyone else noticing this dividing issue or am I just more sensitive to it now in this COVID year?
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Old 11-02-20, 11:17 AM
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Its beginning to look like schools should have a class on how to be an adult.
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Old 11-02-20, 11:32 AM
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Yea, I see that stuff too.

Some days (when I think that supplying facts will make a difference), I point them out to people. Others, I know better and just let it go.

Those conversations usually end up with some arsehole saying something to the effect that if they see me, they'll run my arse over.

To which I respond:

1. Many of use have cameras and you will be caught and prosecuted ... if not by the DA, by myself or my survivors in a civil case.
2. Congratulations, you have just provided evidence of intent needed for a criminal charge.

That usually shuts them up.
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Old 11-02-20, 11:55 AM
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I'm a big fan of bike lanes, especially what's happened in NYC over the last few years. Only "glaring" issue is that not all places are great candidates for bike lanes. Generally, the construction requires that some existing function/provision/capability is sacrificed. Now, if it's lane four of a one-way road, probably not a big sacrifice. If it's converting the parking in front of my house to 'no parking,' then I likely have an issue with it. And if the bike lane provides some direct connectivity that serves many users, OK. But if it doesn't really "get you somewhere" then it's just a lane for the lane's sake. The hate? Well, that comes with "who moved my cheese?" Paying for it? I pay enough in real estate taxes to certainly cover that infrastructure. When I see what happens to a lot of my tax dollars, it's not bike lanes that make me angry.
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Old 11-02-20, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Its beginning to look like schools should have a class on how to be an adult.
A lot of people would flunk out.
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Old 11-02-20, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Yea, I see that stuff too.

Some days (when I think that supplying facts will make a difference), I point them out to people. Others, I know better and just let it go.

Those conversations usually end up with some arsehole saying something to the effect that if they see me, they'll run my arse over.

To which I respond:

1. Many of use have cameras and you will be caught and prosecuted ... if not by the DA, by myself or my survivors in a civil case.
2. Congratulations, you have just provided evidence of intent needed for a criminal charge.

That usually shuts them up.
I am avoiding responding but I like your answer. I was reading through a recent post last night and the responses were really pissing me off and I started typing my response but stopped because I knew that would lead down the hole you mention above and really piss me off.
Turned the tablet off and went to bed.
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Old 11-02-20, 12:11 PM
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That sentiment has been around for as long as I can remember. When a cyclist gets hit by a car, read the comments on the news story. Much of our country is strongly anti-bicycle.
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Old 11-02-20, 12:46 PM
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The other day while riding, a motorist yelled at me.. "GO BACK TO EUROPE IF YOU WANNA BIKE" ....I didn't understand his rant but it made me laugh as he drove away in his Audi.
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Old 11-02-20, 01:40 PM
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Our society creates and encourages bullies like watering garbage creates mushrooms....
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Old 11-02-20, 01:52 PM
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Yeah, I see it down here in the SE USA. Our area was awarded a $20 million grant to build a bike/pedestrian bridge. The current bridge is cars only and really limits people. People have been up in arms about this talking about how much a waste it is and they should use it to improve the auto section. What is silly is that on the other side of town, they have a bike/pedestrian section on the bridge and it is highly used and is very popular.
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Old 11-02-20, 02:15 PM
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People love to hate and our current social world is all about it. I wish we could get move people to ride a bike. Our society causes people to be over weight and sedentary.
They see a big rider and they hate you because you are doing something they can not do
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Old 11-02-20, 03:42 PM
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You have to ignore online comments. Unfortunately, a large percentage of society is only thinking of themselves and screw everyone else. They may be frustrated cause they have a lousy commute and nothing is being done to improve the roads so they resent any money being spent anywhere else. They don't stop to think how bike lanes help the flow of traffic and how they might get some cars off the road or that bicyclists pay taxes just like they do and deserve to have some infrastructure just like they do.

Some of the people are total d-heads and others are just people that are venting without thinking how rude they are being. Not worth giving them a second thought.
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Old 11-02-20, 03:58 PM
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When I rode my bike to school as a kid, in the 60's and 70's, I don't recall much hate. But when some people see an adult on a bike, it just "triggers" them. I have never understood it, but it's an innate knee-jerk reaction a certain segment of the population has, that you have to be prepared for.

So I do everything I can NOT to give someone like that an excuse to get pissed off at me. I ride my bike just like I drive my car, signal, stop, etc., except i don't take the lane unless absolutely necessary, but when I do, do it assertively. I FRAP religiously, especially since it has saved my life many times when someone whizzed past that I didn't see, that would have surely hit me had I been further left.

I think wearing casual clothes helps, the racing shorts and jersies seem to increase people's anger, at least in my region. YMMV.

The rage though, is nowhere near as bad as it was 20, 30, or 40 years ago OP, you will just have to take my word on that. The 70's and 80's were terrible for this sort of thing.
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Old 11-02-20, 04:23 PM
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We are the other. Ten motorists roll through a stop sign and motorists think those are just bad drivers. One cyclist rolls through the stop sign, and motorists think the cyclist is demonstrating the lawlessness of all cyclists. As the other, we are freeloading rule breaking drags on society.
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Old 11-02-20, 06:14 PM
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Depending where you live, I think much of the frustration directed towards cycling is a result of local Government sacrificing driving freedoms (efficiencies) to improve cycling infrastructure.
Vehicle lanes and parking spaces are reduced or removed in order to fit a bike lane. Speed limits may be reduced, turning restrictions increased and entire streets may become off limits to motor vehicles.
All great improvements for cyclist, but if poorly planned, daily driving becomes more stressful for many. As we know, share the road is not always well received by intitled drivers who think roads are for cars only.
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Old 11-02-20, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Because the internet is so good at knowing what my interests are based on all my browsing history, I am receiving more news articles related to local biking news. This year has had a big impact on cycling with everyone home and getting involved by buying, fixing and riding bikes and it seems some of my communities are responding by committing to more bike infrastructure to help cyclists out. My nearest city has committed to an extra 40 km’s in bike lanes throughout the downtown core for 2021.

What I find shocking is the backlash against these changes by the pro car/anti cyclist people. Any time I see a news article on social media, the comments section is hundreds of post long with people for or against and a lot of hatred between the two. It really disturbs me to see what some of these anti cyclist people say about this and almost scares me to be on the road knowing some of these people really want to prove their point?

Some of ongoing issues are cyclists should be licensed, they should pay extra taxes for these changes to bike lanes, they shouldn’t be allowed on certain roads or that they should grow up and stop riding bikes! Really?

I drive a car and I ride a bike so I pay taxes and appreciate both for what they are. I will admit there are some cyclists who are bad apples and give us all a bad name, but guess what – the same goes for drivers! Cyclists usually don’t kill people when they get in an accident!

Anyone else noticing this dividing issue or am I just more sensitive to it now in this COVID year?
People can complain all they want about bikes on the road, but realistically, what can they do, other than intentionally hit you? Rant on the internet. Buzz you at worst. But if they own a car and maybe a house, they're not gonna risk losing that just to ruin your day, at least no sensible person would.

Then there's crazy people, but who can ever predict what they will do? That leaves mainly people making honest mistakes that you have to worry most about, so I try to place myself in their position as a fairly reasonable, maybe a little impatient driver, and that seems to work OK (knock on wood).
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Old 11-02-20, 06:53 PM
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We had similar social media conversations going on last month when one of our towns put up signs which said cyclists could use the full lane. The ordinances hadn’t changed, the signs were just placed as reminders. It created the usual bantering about use of the roadways. Maybe at least it brought attention to cyclists being on the local roadways???

As a side, last Saturday a group of 7 of us were doing a group ride and riding 2 abreast. It’s legal in NC to ride in a double pace line, and as you know it’s easier for vehicles to pass the shorter line of cyclists. A vehicle pulls along side us in the oncoming lane, rolls down his window and slides almost over into the passenger seat while still driving.......and instructs us to ride single file and to stop talking to each other......at least that’s what we think we heard. He sped off. A few blocks up the road he had pulled into a service station, gotten out of his car and was on the sidewalk hollering the same messages. He then pulled out behind us and started blowing his horn, especially as he was passing us again. We never broke our stride and just waved and smiled. I’m sure he was thinking that if we were riding single file he could have passed us by squeezing between the yellow line and us.
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Old 11-03-20, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jppe View Post
We had similar social media conversations going on last month when one of our towns put up signs which said cyclists could use the full lane. The ordinances hadnít changed, the signs were just placed as reminders. It created the usual bantering about use of the roadways. Maybe at least it brought attention to cyclists being on the local roadways???

As a side, last Saturday a group of 7 of us were doing a group ride and riding 2 abreast. Itís legal in NC to ride in a double pace line, and as you know itís easier for vehicles to pass the shorter line of cyclists. A vehicle pulls along side us in the oncoming lane, rolls down his window and slides almost over into the passenger seat while still driving.......and instructs us to ride single file and to stop talking to each other......at least thatís what we think we heard. He sped off. A few blocks up the road he had pulled into a service station, gotten out of his car and was on the sidewalk hollering the same messages. He then pulled out behind us and started blowing his horn, especially as he was passing us again. We never broke our stride and just waved and smiled. Iím sure he was thinking that if we were riding single file he could have passed us by squeezing between the yellow line and us.
Re the BMUFL signs, we had the same here. It was impossible to get across to those that objected that the signs merely represented the vehicle code.

I later spoke privately with some of the residents and found out that their objection was more because of the signs than the message ... they don't like signs in their hood. They were more amenable to sharrows where applicable. But by then, the battle lines were drawn. The cyclist group was essentially taken over by people who would not compromise, and saw it as some kind of civil rights protest from the 60s, just further antagonizing the residents (who in the past, had been very reasonable about all the cyclists in the hood). In the end, the BMUFL signs they erected were removed, and no sharrows took their place.

Ugh ... politics.
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Old 11-03-20, 12:38 PM
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The social media thing is a well-known problem. Any un-moderated forum, whether it was an email list or a bulletin board or digital comments or now FB - always gets taken over by the nasties. They drive away the vast majority of folks who simply don't need the grief. It's the new normal. An unfortunate result is that this increases polarizations in society, in every subject from politics to health. These animosities cascade down into our daily lives. No one has ever come up with a way to do anything about it except have mods and of course where money is involved the mods may be corrupt. That's why our little corner of the web is such a wonderful place to be - or to hide out today. Thanks, mods!

W/r to this conversation, the number of vehicles who pass me on the road with the passenger shouting, "Get off the road!" is down from what it used to be, years ago. I don't know why, maybe because more bikes are out now.

I also find roads to be safer than MUPs. Roads have rules, MUPs apparently have none. I like rules.
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Old 11-03-20, 02:51 PM
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I don’t pay much attention to vitriol on the internet. I do pay attention to how folks are live and in person.

I ride with a group of pretty fast folks, 3 mornings a week. While we do blow through 4-way stops when there is no one there, we otherwise follow the rules of the road. Countless times folks in cars stop to allow us to make left hand turns as a group or wave us through stop signs. We always wave and yell thank you.
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Old 11-03-20, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I also find roads to be safer than MUPs. Roads have rules, MUPs apparently have none. I like rules.
I'll second that. MUPs and bike paths in general are like the wild west. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen any enforcement of the rules whatsoever.
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Old 11-04-20, 12:14 AM
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Any time someone posts about bike lanes on Nextdoor or my neighborhood listserve, all the ranters pile on and describe every sin committed by every cyclist they've ever seen. It's just impotent rage. These are the same folks who complain about traffic but won't get out of their cars, and who think people without kids shouldn't have to pay for public schools. F 'em.
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Old 11-04-20, 04:58 AM
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Whenever the VT Dept of Transportation posts a bike safety message on Facebook, I’m struck by how many comments are bitter complaints about bicyclists. Most of my riding is on dirt backroads and I try to sow a little goodwill by waving to drivers, acknowledging those who patiently wait on hills until they can pass safely, yielding to them at intersections, etc. it probably makes little difference but it seems better than arguing with someone on Facebook.
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Old 11-04-20, 10:51 AM
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Try to set an example to the drivers.

At stop lights, make sure the drivers behind you may turn right without waiting for you to move over.

At 4 way stop signs, don't use track stands, instead come to a complete stop and follow the sequence rules. When drivers see your foot touching the ground, it sends a positive signal, do it.

When riding with a group, ask the members if they also have drivers' license and drive their motor vehicles. If you're not the leader of the group ride, approach that group leader before the ride begins and have a conversation.

If you are observant in the little things, you will be the same in bigger life things.
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Old 11-04-20, 11:02 AM
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I think the problem is those slideshows...
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