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Carfree man gets $80k and a new car so he won't have to walk to work

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Carfree man gets $80k and a new car so he won't have to walk to work

Old 02-04-15, 10:59 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
I was thinking the same thing. He actually looked older than his age but all those steps each day was good for his overall health. I suspect he as doing 20,000 steps a day which is twice the recommended allowance.
I'm not sure he looks old for the mid 50's.




Detroiter needs wheels! Walks 21mi! by Jiyan K. Cadiz - GoFundMe
Help James Robertson Get a Car by Evan Leedy - GoFundMe

However, they obviously chose photos taken on cold days with snow on the ground, and him well covered.

To me, he doesn't look like he has walked 5000 miles a year for the past 10 years. Nonetheless, it certainly would be good exercise.
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Old 02-05-15, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
Now the problem is...after somebody gave him a choice of brand new cars, anybody who offers a bike (even an expensive one) looks kinda cheap and laughable.

But there are probably hundreds of other people in Detroit (and almost everywhere else) who are in the same situation as this guy. For many of them, a bike would be a good solution to their transportation problems. Unfortunately, there isn't much publicity about the worthiness of bicycles for urban transport.
Even a free car isn't actually free. A few months ago, an acquaintance of mine who owns an auto repair shop offered me a free Volvo. I turned it down without even having to think about it. After living mostly car-free for about ten years, the idea of actually owning a car in an urban environment, where it's totally unnecessary, seems kind of moronic to me from a financial perspective, and not very wise from a spiritual perspective. Having to get everywhere under my own power, whether walking or biking, frees up a pretty significant amount of money for other things, and actually makes me feel better about pretty much everything.

The guy in the article has received so much in donations that financial considerations are no longer important for him; he can drive an SUV virtually for free for the rest of his life if he wants to. I'm curious to see what he decides to do. Personally, I like not having a car, and so do a few other people I know. My ex, for example, walks 3 miles to work every day, and, like me, has turned down a free car; though she hated it at first, her early-morning trek is now one of the best parts of her day. She claims it's helped her rediscover herself, and has done good things for her physical health. My view is that cars can do horrible damage to your bottom line if you're not prudent, and they don't do your soul much good, either.
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Old 02-05-15, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
Now the problem is...after somebody gave him a choice of brand new cars, anybody who offers a bike (even an expensive one) looks kinda cheap and laughable.

But there are probably hundreds of other people in Detroit (and almost everywhere else) who are in the same situation as this guy. For many of them, a bike would be a good solution to their transportation problems. Unfortunately, there isn't much publicity about the worthiness of bicycles for urban transport.
Even a free car isn't actually free. A few months ago, an acquaintance of mine who owns an auto repair shop offered me a free Volvo. I turned it down without even having to think about it. After living mostly car-free for about ten years, the idea of actually owning a car in an urban environment, where it's totally unnecessary, seems kind of moronic to me from a financial perspective, and not very wise from a spiritual perspective. Having to get everywhere under my own power, whether walking or biking, frees up a pretty significant amount of money for other things, and actually makes me feel better about pretty much everything.

The guy in the article has received so much in donations that financial considerations are no longer important for him; he can drive an SUV virtually for free for the rest of his life if he wants to. I'm curious to see what he decides to do. Personally, I like not having a car, and so do a few other people I know. My ex, for example, walks 3 miles to work every day, and, like me, has turned down a free car; though she hated it at first, her early-morning trek is now one of the best parts of her day. She claims it's helped her rediscover herself, and has done good things for her physical health. My view is that cars can do horrible damage to your bottom line if you're not prudent, and they don't do your soul much good, either.
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Old 02-05-15, 12:25 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bragi
Even a free car isn't actually free. A few months ago, an acquaintance of mine who owns an auto repair shop offered me a free Volvo. I turned it down without even having to think about it. After living mostly car-free for about ten years, the idea of actually owning a car in an urban environment, where it's totally unnecessary, seems kind of moronic to me from a financial perspective, and not very wise from a spiritual perspective. Having to get everywhere under my own power, whether walking or biking, frees up a pretty significant amount of money for other things, and actually makes me feel better about pretty much everything.

The guy in the article has received so much in donations that financial considerations are no longer important for him; he can drive an SUV virtually for free for the rest of his life if he wants to. I'm curious to see what he decides to do. Personally, I like not having a car, and so do a few other people I know. My ex, for example, walks 3 miles to work every day, and, like me, has turned down a free car; though she hated it at first, her early-morning trek is now one of the best parts of her day. She claims it's helped her rediscover herself, and has done good things for her physical health. My view is that cars can do horrible damage to your bottom line if you're not prudent, and they don't do your soul much good, either.
I was thinking what I would do if I got this crowdsource bonanza. I wouldn't buy a car, but I would probably pay off the car owned by others in my household, since the payments are a drain on family income.
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Old 02-05-15, 12:26 AM
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some people in Detroit are getting the connection to transit:

Take action on transit in metro Detroit

The situation hasn't changed much since I lived in Detroit almost 40 years ago!
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Old 02-05-15, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
I was thinking what I would do if I got this crowdsource bonanza. I wouldn't buy a car, but I would probably pay off the car owned by others in my household, since the payments are a drain on family income.
Car payments (i..e., paying off the loan on a rapidly depreciating piece of machinery) is one of the most oppressive aspects of car "ownership." That, and insurance, makes owning a car way, way more expensive than many people realize, even with low fuel prices. I hope you're able to pay off your car debt as soon as you can.
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Old 02-05-15, 05:51 PM
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That's really impressive if it's true. I wish more car-free people would get rewarded in this way, except I wouldn't want the car. Without the automotive expenses, you could retire from your job and walk anywhere else you wanted instead - and without the pressure to keep up with a schedule.
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Old 02-05-15, 07:20 PM
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I hope that guy is smart enough to invest all this money so it can grow.
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Old 02-05-15, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
some people in Detroit are getting the connection to transit:

Take action on transit in metro Detroit

The situation hasn't changed much since I lived in Detroit almost 40 years ago!
There's no way Detroit can afford public transit to cover the whole city. You would have to be a wealthy city like Boston or New York to cover that kind of ground. I'm wondering if Detroit allows Mexican Jitney's to provide service? It would be a huge help if they could convince independent Mexican drivers to help provide public transit.
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Old 02-05-15, 09:57 PM
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Part of James Robertson's problem is that he works Swing Shift, 2-10 PM, and has chosen a work location in a service hole. My guess is that day shift goes from 5 or 6 AM to 2 PM, and would also be tight with the buses.

They don't say exactly where he starts the "walk".
I assume the trip ends at:
Schain Mold & Engineering in Rochester Hills (2776 Commerce Dr, Rochester Hills, MI 48309)

Bus 465 would get him within about 2.8 miles of the destination, but only has morning/evening hours.
If he transferred to day shift, he could probably do the trek to get to work by 6 AM with bus 465, and then easily snag it again in the early afternoon. With 10+ years of seniority, there isn't a possibility of changing to Day Shift?

With a couple of transfers in the AM, he could probably catch bus 756 which would get him about 3.7 miles away from his work in the early afternoon, but I don't think he could catch it at night.

Anyway, one of the reasons I don't take the bus is I dislike bus schedules and transfers, and I can generally ride my bike about as fast as the bus. But, for commuting, I would certainly consider a 5 mile bike ride, 10 mile bus ride, and 5 mile bike ride, especially if it saved me 3 hours of walking every day.

It isn't a bad deal.
Do an impressive walk.
Don't take charge of one's life.
And, get a windfall of $310,000 and counting (both funds).

It does look like Detroit could use a bit better bus services.

As far as the vans....
I wonder if people could do it informally.
Find a person that lives somewhat near a major bus hub.
Buy a beat up government surplus 15 passenger van.
Drive to the bus stop, and fill up the van.
Head to work.
Fill the van up again after work, and head back to the stop.

If one charged, say $1 a day per passenger for the 2 x 7 mile drive, it would add up to $14 per vanload, or about $4,200 a year. Not a lot, but it should be self supporting.

If the company (or a few neighboring businesses) wanted, it could probably even do the same thing. Snagging 3 shifts a day, that would be at least $42 a day (1 trip, more with multiple trips), or about $12,600 a year. And if one did it right, one could just rotate van drivers.

Perhaps this $300,000 + should be used as seed money to start between 10 and 100 van pools, depending on how expensive of equipment one buys.
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Old 02-05-15, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
There's no way Detroit can afford public transit to cover the whole city. You would have to be a wealthy city like Boston or New York to cover that kind of ground. I'm wondering if Detroit allows Mexican Jitney's to provide service? It would be a huge help if they could convince independent Mexican drivers to help provide public transit.
A poor city should do better with the public transportation than a rich city. They just need to design the system with adequate access, and apparently Detroit and the various suburbs have chosen not to support a good public transportation system.

I have long thought that a good bus system should have a mix of 50 passenger buses and 15 passenger vans. Mini-Vans?

Use the vans to extend the hours, and as feeders for the big buses. No sense in paying to have a big bus circle the city with no passengers.

Handicapped access may be a problem, but perhaps do certain routes that require 24 hr reservations for wheelchair access.
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Old 02-06-15, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
There's no way Detroit can afford public transit to cover the whole city. You would have to be a wealthy city like Boston or New York to cover that kind of ground. I'm wondering if Detroit allows Mexican Jitney's to provide service? It would be a huge help if they could convince independent Mexican drivers to help provide public transit.
The real problem isn't lack of money, but lack of cooperation between the various cities and the state of Michigan...very little regional planning.

I don't know what Mexican has to do with it, but there were jitneys in Detroit years ago. I don't know about now.
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Old 02-06-15, 02:39 AM
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Apparently the Jitney services are not legal in Detroit

Liberate jitneys - BILL JOHNSON GROUP

So the municipality not only provides sub-standard bus services, but they prevent others from legally competing on a small scale, although apparently some independent share vehicles do fly under the radar.
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Old 02-07-15, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Apparently the Jitney services are not legal in Detroit

Liberate jitneys - BILL JOHNSON GROUP

So the municipality not only provides sub-standard bus services, but they prevent others from legally competing on a small scale, although apparently some independent share vehicles do fly under the radar.
Not everything that happens in a big city is strictly legal.
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Old 02-07-15, 10:56 AM
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Carfree man gets $80k and a new car so he won't have to walk to work

Originally Posted by fietsbob
Its Detroit so of course the solution is get them into the car owners co dependency...
I grew up in Detroit, the city proper, during it's better days in the 50’s – 70’s, and indeed the Car Culture is strong, parochial and even blinding there. That was particularly illustrated to me in an anecdote described in the biography, Ford: The Men and the Machine by Robert Lacey.

In the 1950's, The Ford Motor Company was looking for a name for a new, relatively classy car. The discussion came around to the name of Henry Ford’s only, then-deceased son, Edsel. Edsel Ford was well-known to the Company and City as a man of refinement and culture, having established the Detroit Institute of Arts, and would elegantly define this new car and honor his memory.

Well, to the outside world, this car with the peculiar front end would besmirch the unusual name Edsel, as in “Edsel…Schmedsel.”

BTW, my sister lives in Rochester Hills, the destination of James Robertson, and I have found it to be one of the most pleasant suburbs to cycle in, of the otherwise hazardous Northern suburbs of the Metro area. The next-door town of Rochester, MI itself is also a historic and beautiful town, and puts on this renowned annual Christmas display on Main Street.



This story was also discussed on a Commuting Forum thread, “Anyone heard of bike commuting?,” mainly from the point of view of Commuting, but,

Originally Posted by acidfast7
Detroit needs a (several) hero(es).

Be nice and let them enjoy the spotlight.

Do they running water yet? The last I heard was that the Water Municipality was dissolved?
When others disparage my hometown of Detroit, in its defense I do counter that many of the suburbs are doing well, are nice places to live, and are as or more cycleable than many other major, typical US Metropolitan areas (Boston is not typical).

The Detroit City Motto is the intrepid “Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus,” (“We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes”) adopted after the Great Fire of 1805, and did eventuate in the Arsenal of Democracy in World War II; an apt and expectant adage for the history of the City and its future.
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Old 02-08-15, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Carfree man gets $80k and a new car so he won't have to walk to work


I grew up in Detroit, the city proper, during it's better days in the 50’s – 70’s, and indeed the Car Culture is strong, parochial and even blinding there. That was particularly illustrated to me in an anecdote described in the biography, Ford: The Men and the Machine by Robert Lacey.

In the 1950's, The Ford Motor Company was looking for a name for a new, relatively classy car. The discussion came around to the name of Henry Ford’s only, then-deceased son, Edsel. Edsel Ford was well-known to the Company and City as a man of refinement and culture, having established the Detroit Institute of Arts, and would elegantly define this new car and honor his memory.

Well, to the outside world, this car with the peculiar front end would besmirch the unusual name Edsel, as in “Edsel…Schmedsel.”

BTW, my sister lives in Rochester Hills, the destination of James Robertson, and I have found it to be one of the most pleasant suburbs to cycle in, of the otherwise hazardous Northern suburbs of the Metro area. The next-door town of Rochester, MI itself is also a historic and beautiful town, and puts on this renowned annual Christmas display on Main Street.



This story was also discussed on a Commuting Forum thread, “Anyone heard of bike commuting?,” mainly from the point of view of Commuting, but,


When others disparage my hometown of Detroit, in its defense I do counter that many of the suburbs are doing well, are nice places to live, and are as or more cycleable than many other major, typical US Metropolitan areas (Boston is not typical).

The Detroit City Motto is the intrepid “Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus,” (“We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes”) adopted after the Great Fire of 1805, and did eventuate in the Arsenal of Democracy in World War II; an apt and expectant adage for the history of the City and its future.
Nice post. Detroit will rise again!
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Old 02-08-15, 01:37 AM
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More on metro Detroit transit:
How metro Detroit transit went from best to worst
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Old 02-08-15, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bragi
Personally, I like not having a car, and so do a few other people I know. My ex, for example, walks 3 miles to work every day, and, like me, has turned down a free car; though she hated it at first, her early-morning trek is now one of the best parts of her day. She claims it's helped her rediscover herself, and has done good things for her physical health. My view is that cars can do horrible damage to your bottom line if you're not prudent, and they don't do your soul much good, either.
It's great when you are in a position to take advantage of an active lifestyle. A 20 mile was is drudgery, but 3 miles is healthy and undoubtedly starts her day in a good direction...
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Old 02-08-15, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
The real problem isn't lack of money, but lack of cooperation between the various cities and the state of Michigan...very little regional planning.

I don't know what Mexican has to do with it, but there were jitneys in Detroit years ago. I don't know about now.
I don't know about specific politics in that area, but common sense would tell you that unless there's some corporate employer willing to invest in vans or minibuses as transit, they're unlikely. If locals can't spare the money to own and drive personal motor-vehicles, how are they going to own and operate commercial transit vehicles with all the service costs associated with driving such vehicles commercially? More than likely, someone would need a loan and try going to a bank with a business plan to start a transit service in an area where people can't afford cars. Even with laws permitting, financing would be reluctant.

A real by-the-bootstraps approach is what this guy is doing walking to work. What surprises me is that he hasn't gotten a bike to speed up his long hike to work. If he can't afford one, even with his wages, I'm surprised no one offered him a free bike. If lots of people were biking to work in a poor area, it seems more likely that transit services or at least more local businesses would result in local jobs being created. Of course, it may well be that there are informal networks of economic trade going on that are local but invisible because they are things like one person doing grocery shopping and food-preparation for a number of family members and/or neighbors. I often wonder why people expect poor area residents to go through all the expense of setting up formal restaurants, stores, etc. when they can network to get these same services informally without the additional trouble and expense of running formal businesses.
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Old 02-08-15, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tandempower
I don't know about specific politics in that area, but common sense would tell you that unless there's some corporate employer willing to invest in vans or minibuses as transit, they're unlikely. If locals can't spare the money to own and drive personal motor-vehicles, how are they going to own and operate commercial transit vehicles with all the service costs associated with driving such vehicles commercially? More than likely, someone would need a loan and try going to a bank with a business plan to start a transit service in an area where people can't afford cars. Even with laws permitting, financing would be reluctant.

A real by-the-bootstraps approach is what this guy is doing walking to work. What surprises me is that he hasn't gotten a bike to speed up his long hike to work. If he can't afford one, even with his wages, I'm surprised no one offered him a free bike. If lots of people were biking to work in a poor area, it seems more likely that transit services or at least more local businesses would result in local jobs being created. Of course, it may well be that there are informal networks of economic trade going on that are local but invisible because they are things like one person doing grocery shopping and food-preparation for a number of family members and/or neighbors. I often wonder why people expect poor area residents to go through all the expense of setting up formal restaurants, stores, etc. when they can network to get these same services informally without the additional trouble and expense of running formal businesses.
You recently said in another thread that all areas should have good transit so that people have the option to live wothout a car. does that principle not apply to inner-city Detroit? Detroit has to settle or some kind of home-made rinky-dink system of vans and shuttle buses? Why the double standard?

Detroit is now a city with considerably less than a million inhabitants. But it anchors a metro area with over 5 million souls. This area is divided into (IIRC) more than 100 separate municipalities, including both some of the wealthiest and poorest communities in America. There is virtually no co-operation between these towns when it comes to public transit. Historically and currently, this has made it impossible to develop good public transit in the Detroit area. In fact, many neighborhoods--both wealthy and poor--have no public transit at all. This is a planning problem much more than a financial problem.
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Old 02-09-15, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody
Excellent, and enlightening story.

Originally Posted by Roody
Detroit is now a city with considerably less than a million inhabitants. But it anchors a metro area with over 5 million souls. This area is divided into (IIRC) more than 100 separate municipalities, including both some of the wealthiest and poorest communities in America. There is virtually no co-operation between these towns when it comes to public transit. Historically and currently, this has made it impossible to develop good public transit in the Detroit area. In fact, many neighborhoods--both wealthy and poor--have no public transit at all. This is a planning problem much more than a financial problem.
Several cities have swallowed up numerous suburbs.

As St. Louis grew, rather than merging with neighboring communities, small communities would incorporate as separate cities, with 90 small towns in St. Louis County. More if one adds St. Charles and other nearby counties.

Each little micro community has its own Mayor, Council, City Manager, Building Inspectors, Police Force, DA, Jail, Court, LAWS, and etc. Talk about redundancy.

I think at one time, inner St. Louis was relatively wealthy, but that wealth has moved to the suburbs.

Personally I believe these conglomerate metros need to merge into a single city. I believe the only people who benefit from the micro metros is the members of the local government.
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Old 02-09-15, 07:43 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Roody
More on metro Detroit transit:
How metro Detroit transit went from best to worst

Originally Posted by CliffordK
Excellent, and enlightening story.
+1 Roody. Of a personal interest, from that article, “The last streetcar plied Detroit's streets on April 8, 1956.” I have an early childhood memory of riding the Detroit Street Railwy as I think it was called, with my mother around Christmastime.

Originally Posted by CliffordK
Several cities have swallowed up numerous suburbs…
I think at one time, inner St. Louis was relatively wealthy, but that wealth has moved to the suburbs...

Personally I believe these conglomerate metros need to merge into a single city. I believe the only people who benefit from the micro metros is the members of the local government.
Perhaps you have seen the movie ”Eight Mile Road,” the city limit of Detroit, equivalent to the Berlin Wall.

BTW, CliffordK, also wrote:

Originally Posted by CliffordK
…They don't say exactly where he starts the "walk".
I assume the trip ends at:
Schain Mold & Engineering in Rochester Hills (2776 Commerce Dr, Rochester Hills, MI 48309…

It does look like Detroit could use a bit better bus services….
I was surprised to read of detailed knowledge/interest of Detroit geography and mass transit options from a subscriber from Eugene, OR. I enjoy researching seemingly mundane items, but I doubt I would investigate Eugene OR, unless I had a connection.
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Old 02-09-15, 10:39 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Roody
You recently said in another thread that all areas should have good transit so that people have the option to live wothout a car. does that principle not apply to inner-city Detroit? Detroit has to settle or some kind of home-made rinky-dink system of vans and shuttle buses? Why the double standard?
No double standard. You are mistaking my descriptions with my prescriptions. Would I prescribe decent transit for Detroit like any other area? Of course. Can I still describe the reasons it's unlikely to happen as a private venture? Yes, that's what I'm doing.

Ultimately, you can't just say that everything that should happen should be funded to happen, because it might not ultimately be feasible for the Earth to provide the resources to have everything we want. The economy is a good indicator of what is feasible or less feasible but not a great one because economics are highly skewed by fiscal stimulus coming from both government and private investment. When a city like Detroit can't afford public transit, it should be a wake-up call to the rest of us that maybe no one else should be either, since in the long run we might all have to wean off it.

Cost has to be taken into consideration when dealing with impoverished areas. If, for example, it is more efficient and cost-effective to bring in stores and jobs to the area than to use public transit to move everyone 20 miles every day to get to a distant job-site, then wouldn't it make more sense to look into what it would take to do that instead of investing in public transit? Granted, even if area residents are able to live locally, there would still need to be some form of public transit to connect with outside destinations; but that might be a single bus-connection with sparse scheduling.

I'm not that familiar with the area in question so it may well be that the cost of maintaining the city infrastructure is higher than the value. If that's the case, then it might be worth condemning certain sections and focussing on improving those areas where people will live. Of course some people may choose to live in abandoned areas, bike or hike to other areas, and otherwise live creatively, but that doesn't necessarily mean those areas should be totally renovated. After all, what is the point of pioneering into an abandoned area only to be followed in by developers who will gentrify it and drive up taxes and other costs?

Ultimately, there is something to returning an abandoned area to nature. As plants sprout up between the crumbling infrastructure, people have the option of making use of frontier-type skills while having the benefit of ruins instead of having to work purely with natural land features.

Detroit is now a city with considerably less than a million inhabitants. But it anchors a metro area with over 5 million souls. This area is divided into (IIRC) more than 100 separate municipalities, including both some of the wealthiest and poorest communities in America. There is virtually no co-operation between these towns when it comes to public transit. Historically and currently, this has made it impossible to develop good public transit in the Detroit area. In fact, many neighborhoods--both wealthy and poor--have no public transit at all. This is a planning problem much more than a financial problem.
I suspect it has something to do with the cult of automotivism but I suppose there's a possibility I'm wrong. Ride-sharing services might be able to stimulate a culture of riding instead of driving and eventually larger shuttle-vans, minibuses, or full-size buses could become worth the investment. I'm not saying it's not sometimes worth the investment to put some regular bus lines to attract ridership but there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.

My main concern in any situation is that wasteful public expenditure gets sollicited by people who have no interest beyond stimulating business expenditures and job-creation. There are plenty of people who would support government funding of a bus system just to create jobs and income to pay for more personal car ownership and driving.
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Old 02-09-15, 01:16 PM
  #49  
CliffordK
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I was surprised to read of detailed knowledge/interest of Detroit geography and mass transit options from a subscriber from Eugene, OR. I enjoy researching seemingly mundane items, but I doubt I would investigate Eugene OR, unless I had a connection.
I was curious about the story, and thought I would try to verify some of the "facts" for myself. See how much of the walking was an "estimate". I was interested to see that bus 465 would get James within a 2.8 mile or so walk from work. Still long, but not bad. Unfortunately that bus is not designed for his work schedule. Perhaps that is the problem with systems designed to move the majority of people, while ignoring the few.

I have on occasion used public transport depending on where I am. But, most of my life I have lived in bus service holes, so I have used alternative transport including bicycling. I would make the walk home if necessary, but it would get old long before a decade would pass.
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Old 02-09-15, 04:50 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
I hope that guy is smart enough to invest all this money so it can grow.
I was hoping for that but I've got my doubts after reading the latest from CBS News, James mentions in a interview of going to a casino. For the most part I don't really care what he does with his money, but it seems odd that one would receive $350,000 from kind-hearted donors and then admit to going to a casino. Then I was thinking about the earlier stories about this man, living rent/mortgage free in a house his girlfriend inherited. I can only speculate that they don't have children and she also works, so I find it hard to believe he was in a financial hardship...
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