TDinBristol

[QUOTE=calamarichris;19031837]? On the drive up to the deal yesterday, my gf even asked if it would be weird to build up Zipp rims with Phil Wood hubs...

Hang on to that girlfriend, young man!

carleton

I was having a hard time finding quill stems and bars (drop and aero base bars). Everything was mail order even though I lived in a major city (Atlanta). The local fixie shops were awful when it came to parts compared to normal bike shops.

Also, Phil Wood on the rear is not a good idea. The Allen bolts aren't as strong as normal 15mm bolts for holding the wheel during powerful jumps or standing starts. If you use Phil hub on the rear, you'll almost have to run a chain tensioner to be be safe especially if you are a bigger rider. They aren't popular for a reason. Also, they are heavy. So, the only real advantage of Phils are the nice bearings and the bling. You can get nice bearings for any hub.

If you want nice, super quality bling track hubs, then lace Zipp track hubs to those Zipp rims. That would be the right way to do it



Or simply buy a set of Zipp track wheels

dunderhi

My 41 yr old Paramount saw racing action >50% of the weekends at Ttown this summer. No issues. The only nonstandard part that I needed was a 1" quill to 1 1/8" threadless stem adapter.

calamarichris

I'll do my best not to screw this one up, Sir.


Because of helpful riders like you, this forum is GOLD. I've always had spectacular luck with Phil stuff and am surprised at this, but it makes perfect sense.
If you're ever on the left side of continent, I hope you'll afford me the opportunity to use some of this money you've saved me on a beer or two for you. In fact, if any of you PM me before coming out here, the offer stands. I really appreciate all the helpful guidance you guys have shared.


I'm also a user (some would say abuser) of Nitto's fine quill adapter. It's the bee's knees and the dog's bollucks, and it looks like I'll probably be ordering another for this GT.

And speaking of Paramounts I just got the aforementioned GF this lovely NOS frame, built by Waterford's head builder Dennis Kilfoy in 98-99 for some guy named Bob who helped build his patio deck. Tange Prestige and True-Temper tubes, so it's sturdier than it is light, but she loves it. Now we both have a build project.

carleton

That Paramount looks sweet. Love that color.

Regarding Zipp Track Hubs:

In a stroke of WTF, they switched to using 6mm allen bolts in 2015:



Technologies | 333 Track Hubs | Zipp - Speed Weaponry
Support | Identify Zipp Products | Hub Timeline | Zipp - Speed Weaponry

RIP the best track hubs ever made

carleton

The best part about the (now discontinued track hubs), is that you could loosen the washers and easily remove the axles for packing for travel. No more worrying about your track axles sticking out of bags. The wheels would lay flat in travel bags like road wheels with the skewers removed.

EDIT:

If this new design was a move to make the hubs more popular, they should have moved the spoke counts up from a max of 28 on the front and rear, NOT move to a weaker binding system.

The reason that the hubs weren't popular is because you can't get them in the very popular 32 or 36 hole patterns.

So, in my opinion, they simply made the hubs less attractive and functionally worse.

calamarichris

Well, nuts.
Dura Ace high flange then? What other options do we have?

carleton

You have lots of options for basic, functional hubs.

If you want bling, then your options get smaller.

Personally, I started to move towards sealed bearings over the loose bearing Dura Ace because after a while, the loose bearing system requires maintenance and sometimes the lock washers wouldn't lock, so when you tighten the axle nut, it would tighten the cone nut on the bearings and make them seize a bit.

I'm not up on everything that's out there. Maybe some of the other folks can chime in. My only "wish list" would be:

- 15mm nutted axle on the rear
- at least 32 spokes on the rear
- sealed bearings (desired but optional)
- Rim depth for a training wheel doesn't really matter.
- 40-80mm carbon for weekly race wheels. Or 40mm front and 80mm rear.

That setup will last you a long time and have decent resale value as riders of all sizes and styles can use that wheelset.

dunderhi

An NOS Paramount! That is a rare find and very sweet looking frame.

Personally, I'm a fan of Dura-Ace high flange hubs (own two sets).

Have you looked at Suzue Pro Max hubs? They have up to 36 spokes and sealed bearings in a higher end hub.

calamarichris

You're more up on it than most of us.
So it's not possible to put 15mm bolts on the Phil or Zipp hubs?
It's not so much the bling I'm after; I've just had better luck getting the good stuff and taking care of it over the long run. Seems the tighter I pinch pennies, the faster they fly--like cherry pits pretty much.
I like most of your recommendations. Are there any drawback to dual hubs? The loaner bike I'm riding now has a 16T & 15T, and it's been perfect so far (except when I forget to flip it back to 15 before go-time.)

queerpunk

From an enduro perspective, 28h is a much more common drilling for hubs and rims - particularly for deep rims (my wheels, like many on the market, are 24/28). It's not the number of spokes that's important, it's the spacing at the rim, and the deeper the rim, the fewer spokes one needs. I don't think I've seen 80mm rims with 32 spokes, and even 50mm rims look like they're all spoke in 32h drilling.

I've seen plenty of powerful people use wheels with allen bolts - including in international competition (ie, world cup/world championship level riders). that said, I don't think that benefit of PW hubs is proportional to the price. They're nice, sure, but for track use I don't see much of a drawback to basic hubs like the ones that Formula makes (and everybody re-brands). I used DA hubs for a spell, and I missed the fact that I couldn't pop the axle out to pack and travel with them. Dia Compe makes some nice track hubs, and DTSwiss is making some now, too.

carleton

Yeah, Suzue Pro Max are nice, too!

It's not possible to convert the hubs from bolted to nutted.

Flip/Flop hubs are nice and very convenient.

Yeah, the low spoke count works with deep rims. The 808 track hubs use 28h on the rear and are great. I was talking about for normal depth rims for training. I guess I should have mentioned that.

gycho77

Have anyone tried these before?
https://sellfy.com/jonnycerious

I saw some of his videos on youtube
and this was really helpful for me.

and I am planning to purchase "The Form of Sprinting"(https://sellfy.com/p/z3Pn/) because of the youtube videos

but I saw there are more videos such as "Cerious Training 6 Month Off Season & Preseaon Intermediate Sprint Track Cycling Training Plan PDF"
Are those like upupup program?

Can anyone give me a review or thoughts about these

carleton

Jon Fraley knows his stuff and is a fast racer and really methodical about training. He thinks "out of the box" and is willing to try new things and is usually very effective. He's one of the guys behind Serenity Bikes.

As a beginner, his program will definitely work for you. That being said, just about any progressive (increasingly harder) program will work for a beginner (nothing against Fraley).

So, yes, I think it could work for you.

By the way, this question is about Programming ("What should I do to get faster??"), and with all questions about programming, the answer depends on A LOT of variables. There is no way that we can read words and determine what the best training is for you to get faster. It's just not possible.

gycho77

I get your points.
First I will try some of his program and see if it fits me.
And later i might try all of his course.

Thanks

calamarichris

Thank you again. Today's SNQOD:

Are the interfaces on the newer bolt-style hub smaller or the same diameter as the 15mm nutted hubs?

I ask because my GT frame has a softish aluminum rear drop-out, and I probably want to go with the largest hub interface possible to avoid problems.



And if the 15mm nut style is larger/more robust, who makes the nicest/sturdiest flip/flop hub with a traditional 15mm bolt?

Bandera

"Flip/Flop" hubs are fitted w/ a track style reverse thread lockring on one side and a threaded side for a SS/FW.
One is used on the track, the other not.

There are hubs w/ both sides designed for a track cog/lock ring (my riding buddy uses one for LD/FG rides) but ask the SD officials if you can use one with an unprotected cog in place on the "off" side. I don't have a recommendation for hub flavor but current trackies here will.

You'll get proficient in fitting the various chainring/cog combos for various events and as your experience increases.
Join a club at the track, it will be a wealth of on-site knowledge and good company.

-Bandera

calamarichris

Thanks Bandera.
I assumed a fixed/fixed double hub was also called a flip-flop. Not so?
Everyone at the SD Velodrome has been very helpful and kind, but Gramma had a mini-stroke last Monday (she's fine now), and we had no class this Monday, so it's been weeks since I've been able to ask questions in class. Sorry to keep bugging you guys, but once you feed the alley-cat behind your restaurant, they never go away.

What about White Hubs? Are they available in double as fixed/fixed? Any other recommendations?

Flatballer

I think a lot of people call fixed/fixed hubs flip/flops.

But yeah, you want a fixed/fixed, both sides with lock ring.

Godsight

Campagnolo and Shimano dura-ace track fix/fix hubs have cup and cones bearing. Velocity, Surly, All-city and Suzue hubs have cartridge bearings.

queerpunk

^some Suzue Pro Max hubs are cup and cone.

Godsight

IIRC the pro max njs version use cup and cone but the the pro max sb use cartridge bearing ?

Co1Ev

Anybody here familiar with/own the Pro-Lite Menaggio? Found a 2012 model in my size for a decent price, though having trouble finding out the head tube width/compatible headsets. Typically Pro-Lite only have info on the current 2016 model.

rndstr

FWIW the Mavic Ellipses come with a fixed/fixed hub as well

Koogar

Is this the frame?

Track - Menaggio full carbon frame - Pro-Lite / High quality PROfessional LITEweight bicycle equipment using the very latest technology and materials