Got

Comparing to the brompton, the seattube on the dahons are pretty steep, like they are for a track bike or a road bike, steep like you are suppose to spend lots of time on the drops like for racing, instead the seattube should be more relaxed since folding bikes are typically for commuting. It is one of the reasons I have a hard time deciding on a dahon when they are so wrongly designed like that.

One more reason that the brompton is better than any dahon, Britain wins again, now if only the brompton wasn't so expensive compared to the dahon *sigh*....

tudorowen1

I would imagine the reason is that the higher the seat the further back it is from the handlebars..So someone 5ft will need to be closer to the handlebars than someone 6ft 6ins..therefore a steep seat angle will push a tall rider further back and he is likely to be more comfortable..rather than squashed up close to the bars..
Bromptons at one time were often seen with a seat extender that could push the saddle closer or further away from the bars..but I do not see many now..

Got

well i am a tall guy so having the seat further back is not a problem for me, but i still got long arms, so have the seat even further back is even better. so your reasoning is wishy-washy, the short answer is that dahons are not designed as well as the brompton for commuting, damn Dr. Hon still can't beat the UK and their superior designed folding bikes.

on the other hand, if you are racing with your dahon.... then the steeper seat angle would be better. but then why in the world would you race on a folding bike? the Asian engineering mindset is just bonkers.

tudorowen1

If my reasoning is wishy washy as you politely state then so is yours because you agree with what I have said..A bigger,taller rider will want the seat further back..and a shorter rider will want to be closer to the bars..ie..a shorter rider is likely to have shorter legs and arms and therefore want to be closer to the bars..
As far as I know the seat tube angle has nothing to do with being relaxed..that is more to do with the wheelbase and the angle of the steering tube and fork trail..
And a Brompton is not better than any Dahon..That is your opinion..I love my Brompton for the fold..I love my Dahon for the ride.

And Asian engineering is not Bonkers..I love my Toyota Yaris..made about the same time as a Rover 200..My Yaris is wonderful..Rover 200s ..a joke..
If Asian engineering was bonkers why are most top end folding bikes produced in Taiwan..?

Schwinnsta

Perhaps because Asians are generally shorter. Just guessing.

Got

I get the part where the spread between the seattube and the handlebars will increase as your raise the seat, but you still missed my point because, that spread is still not wide enough because the seat tube angle is too steep. Only a redesign could solve the problem, making the seattube angle more relaxed like the brompton.

And just because stuff is made in certain countries doesnt mean it is better, it is just outsourced there because they are cheap. For your example with cars, the best cars are designed in Europe, just like the best folding bike (brompton in this thread), and a lot of other stuff too, like the iPhone is designed in the west and made in China, just because it is cheap there.

Asian design talent is severely lacking, but hey if you want a cheap folding Dahon bike with an abnormally steep seattube designed around a racing bike then I guess you are in luck. Else you have to pay 3x the price for a proper commuter folding bike (the brompton).

reppans

If there's a difference, seems pretty minimal to me.

jur

Good pics.

Rick Imby

Instead of having 40 models on about 5 different frames, I would like to see Dahon actually build one frame that comes in different sizes. I would really like one model with a longer effective top tube--I'm 6'3. Like make the MU frame in three sizes.

Abu Mahendra

Nt

Andrew R Stewart 

Seat tube angle has little to do with leg length. It has a lot to do with rider's placement above the BB/pedals (crank arm lengths are also a factor). When I read that taller riders with longer legs achieve more seat set back I completely agree BUT disagree if their fit is right (or as much right as fit can be talked about) based solely on an angle spec.


But some of Got's OP question's answer is because the bikes in discussion are production ones with other then best fit priorities. Different companies have their fit standards and also make a product to a cost point. Additionally the bike's ride performance is chosen by the manufacturer/designer, not the customer. That collective means that with many break down bikes (or whatever term you wish to use for collapsible bikes) where one size frame is what you get (and no surprise here). Anyone who has owned their own business understands this. Many who buy from said business wish otherwise.


I see that no mention of Bike Friday has been made yet. Any thoughts? Andy

Got

I have to say, there is a problem that has to be addressed right away: tudorowen1's response is complete BS and it should be 100% ignored, I have to call it out because it is throwing off the discussion, which is not acceptable.

Anyways, if only dahon made a folding bike with a more relaxed seattube angle [lesson to tudorowen, compare a track bike seattube to a cruiser bike seattube and you will see why your response is so wrong] to allow for a more upright sitting position for commuting then that would be great. They should copy the brompton since dahon doesn't understand how to make a good bike. I would rather have a $2000 proper bike like a brompton than a flawed $500 dahon.

But boneheaded Dr. Hon with this fancy physics degree insists on making his folding bikes built like racing bicycles, that will be used for commuting. Which is just dumb.

I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too. Which means people will have to pay up if they want a proper folding bike like the brompton.

shrooms

Which is the proper bike like brompton for $2000? Tikit?

zebede

just curious?

tudorowen1

Mr Got..If Dr. Hon is so dumb why is his company the biggest producer of folding bikes in the world making perhaps 10 times the number of Bromptons..?
Some Dahons that are made are absolutely brilliant..Take the Speed P8..You will find endless reports in these forums about how good they are...and I cannot remember anyone having a bad word for them..
Bromptons are not beyond criticism..I for one have many criticisms of them..too heavy ,cheap components,spaces between the gears too much, poor after sales service, not changing the design to incorporate wider hubs gears..etc..But I do own one and ride it often..I also own an old Dahon badged as a Phillips..I own another Dahon built under licence in Macao..They are all brilliant little bikes in their own right.
I have a Bike Friday NWT also ..a truly wonderful bike..And have owned a Tikit in the past..another fabulous bike..far superior in my opinion to a Brompton to ride..Bike Fridays after sales service is second to none and is the standard Brompton should strive for..However the fold of the Tikit is like a sack of spanners..
Bromptons are excellent bikes Mr Got..but do not close your mind to other bike companies..

Joe Remi

This is easily the dumbest thread in the history of Bike Forums Folding Bikes. No proper Brompton owner would spew the nonsense garbage this Got guy is trafficking in. What a tool.

Abu Mahendra

Well, you go. The high quality of your Dahon can only be explained by the fact that Macao was under European administration for over 300 years. I am sure the quality plummeted after Portugal turned it over to those no-good Asians. After all, isn't Dr. Hon of Asian descent himself?

Got

Compare this tern bike, look at the super steep seattube.



That tern has a steeper seattube than this fuji track bike!



He is how a normal seat tube angle should look like:




Therefore Dr. Hon makes folding bikes for racing instead of commuting. He is absentminded.

So if you want a folding bike, dont get a dahon, the price may be cheap but it is wrongly designed. Only a brompton is standard and proper (and expensive, but that is the price you have to pay for a normal folding bike)

Got

Even bike friday gets that the seattube is not suppose to be super steep like a dahon.



American engineering, that is why. Unlike Asian engineering, which is only concerned about cost and making inferior folding bikes designed for racing (WTF?). So don't buy a dahon (unless you are poor).

Abu Mahendra

Once off the kickstand, the seat tube is even slacker




I own two Dahons. I must be doubly poor.

reppans

tudorowen1

Mr. Got..the sign of an educated man is that he has an open mind that can see the arguments of other people he does not agree with..And Mr Got if you examine carefully the photo posted above you will see a Brompton alongside a Dahon ..You will notice they have exactly the same seat angle..But I will not lower myself to your standards and insult you .. Asian engineering..World class from Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and upmarket Chinese makers..
Mr Abu..You are are gentleman..!

Rick Imby

So when the seat tube terminates in the bottom bracket it will come up at one angle, when it terminates behind the bottom bracket it will come up at a different angle to compensate.

22 posts and none of you guys see that.
Effective seat angle changes with the Dahon and Brompton design as the post goes higher.

fietsbob

Do Measure and report what the Numbers are to use for comparison.

You can Buy a Plastic Protractor and Measure pictures if that is your Focus, what things Look Like ..


To get the answer, have you contacted people in the Dahon Distribution chain ? wholesalers or the company ?

chelvel

Finally you did it! (Was going to post that too)