uncreative

Background- I am a 35+ 4 coming from mtb and 'cross. Today in a crit I had my first experience in trying to forcibly move someone off a wheel. I failed. I have noticed that in the 4s, most guys just move over when you get close to them, or actually kind of freak out when there is contact. But this guy was not budging. I put my elbow into him a little bit, he gave it right back. I tried to lean my shoulder into him, he leaned back. he had probably 20lbs on me. i tried to move up a little and steer him with my hip, but that put me in a situation where i was now significantly overlapping the wheel i was trying to take and made me very uncomfortable. i gave up on this technique immediately. this was in the last quarter of the last lap so things were getting a little shaggy.

can any of you guys with experience explain how to move someone off a wheel without being sketchy? Is it just a matter of brute force leaning into a guy's shoulder?

dnuzzomueller

So when a girl says No, that means No.

Andy STi

Sometimes you can't

bigfred 

"Without being sketchy"? You're asking about the 'nice way' to 'forcibly' move someone from a position they don't want to relinquish without creating additional risk for all involved?

Mass helps.

mattm

If you have the legs to sit out in the wind, just keep moving up until you find a spot to get in to.

Doing **** like that in the 4's is a great way to cause crashes btw.

Racer Ex 

You're a tiny dick in the kiddie pool. If you can't ride to the front of the field in the 4's spend your time training not asking how to knock people around.

Commodus

bwahahaha

sig worthy imo.

uncreative

ok good to know. i thought this was all part of road racing.

dnuzzomueller

Perhaps Roller Derby?

gsteinb

Usually I just ask.

jsutkeepspining

usually i just move them, is it really that hard?

Colonelmom

why in the heck t would anyone think this is part of racing...

gsteinb

What should make the op uncomfortable is how stupid he is.

sstang13

This has got to be the 12 most funny responses I've seen...what a thread.

Ps. That sig worthy too ^ (@gsteinb)

Homebrew01

"I say old chap, would you be so kind as to shuffle over a tad so that I might get the draft of that fine fellow in front of us."

gsteinb

"Pardon me, do you have any grey poupon?"

Looigi

I stick my frame pump in their spokes.

botto 

what an idiot.

hammy56

sigh.

I'll be racing the 35+ 4's in Co...I was hoping since it was an 'older' crowd they'd be a bit safer.

HMF

How about this. If I want a wheel, usually what I'll do is position myself alongside the rider behind the wheel, then wait for the wheel to come to me. This works best on the inside line just before a turn. If your bars are ahead of the rider next to you, it usually works. If not, watch out for the curb.

sarals 

"Hi, nice bike. Can I have some of your water?" Girl talk.

JandersUF

Thanks OP, for making this idiot 4 look like a real smooth pro!

yea, as a dumb but polite 4, that is what I tend to do... I'm biggish, and can easily "steal" wheels from other idiot newbs by riding next to them, and letting the guy in front drift to me, then sticking hard to said wheel and making it apparent it is mine now. No contact needed.

Homebrew01

1N7. No rider may make an abrupt motion so as to
interfere with the forward progress of another rider, either
intentionally or by accident.
1N8. Dangerous Rider. Any rider who appears to present a
danger to the other competitors may be disqualified by the
Chief Referee, either before, during, or after a race.
1N9. Pushing or pulling among riders is prohibited in all
races except the Madison and then only between members of
the same team.

jsutkeepspining

but honestly if you're uncomfortable overlapping you shouldn't be forcing people to move, especially in a 4 race. you'll just cause crashes. 4's generally dont get how to take wheels, or how to give wheels. it's one thing when rkwaki or racer ex, or me, or g take a wheel against a 1 or a 2, it's a whole different story when a 4 tries to steal a wheel from another 4 by using force. Just move up and ask for a wheel further up in the pack.

grwoolf

I'm just in my 3rd season of racing and I find that Cat 4's are the least likely to give you a wheel, particularly at points in the race where it's not really important. I never have an issue getting a wheel in Masters Open fields or in the handful of the Cat 1/2/3/4 races I've done. If I was trying to get one as people are getting ready for the spint, that would be a different matter.

If some jackass tried what the op described in a race around here (at any level), there would be yelling during the race and compaints to officials afterwards. I've only seen that kind of stuff once (it was a Cat 5 race), he did it to me twice before I decided to get as far away from him as possible. Everyone was yelling at him, but he continued the entire race. It freaked me out at the time, it was one of my first races and I certainly was not comfortabe with contact. I guess people watch too much cycling on TV with the pros pushing each other around during the sprint.

If someone is willing to jump out in the wind for a bit to gain some positions, I'll typically let them in. If people refuse to let me in, I'll just ride to the front and let the field overtake me (I was out in the wind anyway, so it's usually easier/faster to just go to the front). It can be a little different when things are strung out, but there are typically gaps to 'ease' into when that is happening. If someone isn't tight on a wheel, I don't feel bad helping them fill that gap (whether they wanted me to or not).