1950 Hetchins build thread
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,451
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 876 Post(s)
Liked 2,292 Times
in
1,281 Posts
Parts are starting to come in. Got some Campy Gran Sport parts form @Manny66 and just closed on a frame with a 1” (vs 31/32” headset) off of eBay in the UK.
Unfortunately the frame is my size and in great shape. So I may have another problem…..
Unfortunately the frame is my size and in great shape. So I may have another problem…..
Likes For Kabuki12:
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
It's closer to a 60 (according to the seller) which would be a perfect fit for me. We'll see when I get it how it looks and the exact size. I'm thinking there is a very high probability this one is going to be a keeper. Luckily, the second parts bike I'm looking at in the UK is too small.
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
I'm thinking this will be Jimmie's first international flight. He previously made it across the country from Liverpool and was hanging out in a house near the eastern coast of the UK outside of Leeds. I did see a picture of a friend of his hanging out at the same house that he might have met in Leeds as he was passing through. Some people would call his friend Bob, but the friend was from a time that he was more formal and went by Robert, or his initials of JRJ.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#29
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,658
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 2,531 Times
in
1,059 Posts
"James Fothergill." Names don't get much more English that that. Sounds like something out of Dickens.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
Likes For bikingshearer:
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,159
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3811 Post(s)
Liked 6,713 Times
in
2,613 Posts
@rhm has an ancient Fothergill.
Likes For nlerner:
#31
Steel is real
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,106
Bikes: 40 - accumulated over 40 years
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 376 Post(s)
Liked 1,085 Times
in
304 Posts
Old and bad pic - but when I look at it now - I should not have done the deed...
Likes For styggno1:
#32
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
@rhm has an ancient Fothergill.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.
www.rhmsaddles.com.
Likes For rhm:
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
The James Fothergill showed up and looks great. The Fothergill is most likely from the 1940's. It at one time was owned by forum member @stevevw and documented in @rhm thread on his 1940's Fothergill (picture above). In doing further research, the frame was repainted by Mario Vaz in England in 2015. It looks like it has been built up, but barely ridden before it was stripped and then made it's way across the pond to me.
When I pulled the trigger on the Fothergill I also pulled the trigger on two 1" Headclips (as opposed to the 31/32" or, of course, the 1 1/8") since I wanted to build up the Fothergill also. I had the seller double check that they fit on a 1" steerer but I wasn't going to count on them being right until they came in the door. They showed up today and I had a chance to confirm they fit on a 1" steerer. So now I have three 1" head clips and two frames. Much better than no head clips and one frame.
I've been focusing on the rust on the Hetchins. I have all the rust neutralized and am now starting to address the worst spots. I'm still planning on doing a full build before I decide how mach patina is too much.
Lastly, I found out the Hetchins is a 1950's model year, but was sold on Dec 23th, 1949 so potentially a Christmas present. It is officially a Nulli Secundus and was manufactured as a full chrome.
When I pulled the trigger on the Fothergill I also pulled the trigger on two 1" Headclips (as opposed to the 31/32" or, of course, the 1 1/8") since I wanted to build up the Fothergill also. I had the seller double check that they fit on a 1" steerer but I wasn't going to count on them being right until they came in the door. They showed up today and I had a chance to confirm they fit on a 1" steerer. So now I have three 1" head clips and two frames. Much better than no head clips and one frame.
I've been focusing on the rust on the Hetchins. I have all the rust neutralized and am now starting to address the worst spots. I'm still planning on doing a full build before I decide how mach patina is too much.
Lastly, I found out the Hetchins is a 1950's model year, but was sold on Dec 23th, 1949 so potentially a Christmas present. It is officially a Nulli Secundus and was manufactured as a full chrome.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#34
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
The head clips showed up and I've had to do some clean up on the inside of the clip to get them to fit on the Hetchins. Just got that completed so I should be able to start making some progress over the next few weeks.
I picked up a early 60's Atala that had a damaged frame and fork to pull some parts and I have a number of parts slowly working their way across the pond.
I'm not sure which frame will get which build yet, but I'm thinking two different 3 speeds.
First one: Sturmey Archer ASC with a Chater Lea crankset/chain ring
Second one: 3 speed freewheel on Campy No Record high flange hubs, a Gran Sport RD, and an unbranded cotter crank
I also have a set of Deep North handlebars on a stem that is designed for a head clip coming. This will probably be paired with the SA ASC and Chater Lea. While the bars/stem/brakes from the Atala will go on the other one.
I picked up a early 60's Atala that had a damaged frame and fork to pull some parts and I have a number of parts slowly working their way across the pond.
I'm not sure which frame will get which build yet, but I'm thinking two different 3 speeds.
First one: Sturmey Archer ASC with a Chater Lea crankset/chain ring
Second one: 3 speed freewheel on Campy No Record high flange hubs, a Gran Sport RD, and an unbranded cotter crank
I also have a set of Deep North handlebars on a stem that is designed for a head clip coming. This will probably be paired with the SA ASC and Chater Lea. While the bars/stem/brakes from the Atala will go on the other one.
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
NUlli Secundus
-----
thread on an example dated MCMLII in residence here:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-...t-1952.153347/
-----
thread on an example dated MCMLII in residence here:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-...t-1952.153347/
-----
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
-----
thread on an example dated MCMLII in residence here:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-...t-1952.153347/
-----
thread on an example dated MCMLII in residence here:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-...t-1952.153347/
-----
I'm hoping to get both bikes mocked up this weekend while I wait for the next batch of parts to come in.
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
Some more progress
Headclips……. Are a challenge. Not that they are complicated, but it took 3 tries with different combinations of the random 1” headclip parts to get the Hetchins set up.
Final assembly
All these parts I thought were interchangeable. They weren’t and i don’t know why.
Final assembly
All these parts I thought were interchangeable. They weren’t and i don’t know why.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
For the drive train I went for a 3 speed fixed. Tracked down almost all the SA ASC parts required. Plus a Chater Lea crankset
The ASC hub. 1950 date code. Note the adjuster/pull chain is different. The only part I’m missing is the piece that connects to the little square on one side and the shifter cable on the other
With the CL chainset
The shifter.
The ASC hub. 1950 date code. Note the adjuster/pull chain is different. The only part I’m missing is the piece that connects to the little square on one side and the shifter cable on the other
With the CL chainset
The shifter.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
I chose some handle bars and a stem meant for a head clip
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
Almost done
I still need to add pedals, tape the tires, and set up the shifting.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
are the head parts you ended up with CL or are they Brampton or other?
my experience of the Brampton sets with the floating U-races is that they all take 1/8" ball
have never had occasion to work on a clip style headset
briefly owned a Drysdale with a CL example but did not have need to service it...
great to see you are moving along forward with it!
-----
-----
are the head parts you ended up with CL or are they Brampton or other?
my experience of the Brampton sets with the floating U-races is that they all take 1/8" ball
have never had occasion to work on a clip style headset
briefly owned a Drysdale with a CL example but did not have need to service it...
great to see you are moving along forward with it!
-----
-----
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
-----
are the head parts you ended up with CL or are they Brampton or other?
my experience of the Brampton sets with the floating U-races is that they all take 1/8" ball
have never had occasion to work on a clip style headset
briefly owned a Drysdale with a CL example but did not have need to service it...
great to see you are moving along forward with it!
-----
-----
are the head parts you ended up with CL or are they Brampton or other?
my experience of the Brampton sets with the floating U-races is that they all take 1/8" ball
have never had occasion to work on a clip style headset
briefly owned a Drysdale with a CL example but did not have need to service it...
great to see you are moving along forward with it!
-----
-----
it worked.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#43
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts
Oh yeah. Here’s Jimmy.
This is a preliminary build with a mix of 40’s to 60’s parts. Went with a Gran Sport RD with a 3 speed freewheel. The bulk of the parts came off a donor Atala. The wheels are 700c with “no record” hubs.
Likes For SwimmerMike:
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,271
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
headsets -
new Dawes cycles as late as the early seventies came through with Brampton sets of the floating u-race design (non-integral)
have found that these sets when well set up have a different "feel" than do cup and cone design sets
best term i have to describe it is "skating"
-----
headsets -
new Dawes cycles as late as the early seventies came through with Brampton sets of the floating u-race design (non-integral)
have found that these sets when well set up have a different "feel" than do cup and cone design sets
best term i have to describe it is "skating"
-----
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 4,528
Bikes: Indeed!
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1507 Post(s)
Liked 3,478 Times
in
1,132 Posts
Good to see this thread back to the top. I'm definitely getting an education here.
The bikes look great!
Brent
The bikes look great!
Brent
__________________
"I have a tendency to meander sometimes." B.G.
"I have a tendency to meander sometimes." B.G.
Likes For obrentharris:
#46
Senior Member
Likes For Big Block:
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Whittier
Posts: 873
Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, Litespeed Classic , Automoto , Pinarello Gavia TSX,Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra,Eddy Merckx EMX-5 , 1982 Moser SL, Concorde TSX, Vitus 979 KAS. Diamant SLX,60's Meteor
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked 947 Times
in
327 Posts
Looking Good !
Glad to see those parts went to good use on a a fantastic British Bike .
Glad to see those parts went to good use on a a fantastic British Bike .
#48
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Redwood City CA
Posts: 301
Bikes: 57 ExpressWerke, 58 CinelliB, 62 CinelliB Altenberger, 70 Cinelli SC, 76 Masi, 77 Colin Laing, 78 Ritchey, 80 Jack Taylor, 82 Appel, 82 Davidson, 85 Ironman, 92? Andy Gilmour, 04 Peter Johnson, 91 Ed Litton, 11 Bianchi
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked 451 Times
in
133 Posts
Very cool build Mike, really like it. Bravo buddy!
Guy
Guy
#49
Junior Member
[QUOTE=SwimmerMike;23161603]I still need to add pedals, tape the tires, and set up the shifting.
And bell
And bell
Likes For Kekec1965:
#50
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Saratoga, CA
Posts: 831
Bikes: 1981 Bianchi Specialissima, 1971 Bob Jackson. 2012 Kestrel 4000. 2012 Willier. 2016 Fuji Cross 1.1, 1950 Hetchins, 194X James Fothergill, 1971 Paramount P15, 1973 Paramount P12, 1963 Legnano
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Liked 955 Times
in
391 Posts