MRT2

I am not looking for a bike. My premise was, the retail cost of a new bike that doesn't suck is closer to $700 than it is to the $400 or $500 it used to be. So, will there be end of year closouts on $700 retail bikes for under $500 this year? I doubt it.
Maybe in the fall of 2022, there might be deals, if supply overtakes demand next year, or a bunch of people who bought bikes during the pandemic decide to sell, there will be some good deals on lightly used 2020 and 2021 models.

wphamilton

Well ok I won't hold it it against you then, bagging on my bike. Hurting my feelings that way. But we're good now.

If you're saying a typical new bike buyer shouldn't go anywhere near Craig's list alone, I'm in your corner. Have been for years. That's an uphill battle in this crowd tho.

Hypno Toad

I understood that you're not shopping bikes.

My point, retail price is rarely the price paid, here are my purchases over the last 10 years:

• 2009 Kona Dew Drop - retail $799, I paid $520 for year old stock (35% off retail)
• 2013 Felt Z85 - retail $1,349, I paid $845 for year old stock (37% off retail)
• 2017 Breezer Radar Pro - retail $1,489, I paid $1,130 end of season stock (24% off retail)

You example, $700 retail price for $500, that would be 29% off retail ... so yes you can get a $700 bike for $500. BUT you're gonna have to work with what stock is left at the LBS at the end of the season.

Also, new bike that's $600 (retail): https://www.rei.com/product/121596/c...es-cty-11-bike - There are lots of 'good' bikes for $650 (retail), but I'm not the first one to point this out.

Koyote

Nothing you've written here makes any sense.

Bike manufacturers pay the same tax rates as other firms.

Corporations generally do not all "pass tax increases right through to the public that buys their products." Most of them are able to pass some of their tax obligations along, with the rest being borne by their workers (in the form of lower wages) and owners/shareholders (in the form of lower profits). The proportions depend on the elasticities of demand for the final products, the degree of competition the firm faces, etc.

As I have already pointed out, wage rates for all but the highest-paid workers in the US have been roughly flat for over 40 years; as Kapusta has pointed out, corporate tax rates in the US are now LOWER than in 2008.

These are all facts. You can look them up.

And by the way: what does a 54-year old house's value have to do with any of this?

indyfabz

indyfabz

Nothing, which is why he wrote about it.

unterhausen

I'm not sure what you get from walmart for $150 nowadays. The Denalis the grad students used to get for $70 on sale were a questionable value proposition in my estimation. Steel rims and sheet metal brakes just aren't a good combination.

Penn State had a bike share, but I think it might have ended. I think that's ideal. I don't believe it was a dockless system, which I think would help ridership. Turns out riding across campus the long way is dead flat. The program was still going when my son graduated. I probably should have told my son to ride one of those bikes and we'd pay for it.

Koyote

I'll confess that I do not keep up on the wal-mart bike selection, so you are probably correct.

Our program had a fleet of solid SS commuter bikes, rented out for the entire school year to individuals at prices that were practically free - the goal was to cut down on vehicle traffic within campus. We'd give a student a bike, lock, and free maintenance, all for $20 for the school year. Having an individual be responsible for the bike meant that they took reasonable care; I think only one bike ever went missing (I billed the student's account), and the rest came back in decent shape. The program was up to 50+ bikes when I left, which was more than one for every 18 or so students.

Hypno Toad

This thread got me to look back at some bikes I've bought in the past.

The current Kona Dew Plus is less (retail) then my Dew Drop back in 2009 (now $779). Also entertaining to see there's now a Dew-E

The current entry level Felt road bike is $1,249 (retail), less then my Z85 back in 2013.

I gotta say that these two brands/bikes do not support the OP's point.

MRT2

The 09 Dew Drop is closer to the current Rove than it is to the flat bar Dew Plus. More to the point, what did the Dew plus retail for in 2009?
The Felt road bike is the VR60. 8 speed Claris, aluminum frame and carbon fork, all for $1,249. The 2013 Z85 was all 105, and 3 lbs lighter than the entry level VR60. In 2013, Claris equipped bikes were going for $800. But thanks for making my point.

If you are giving examples, it helps to compare apples to apples. Your point is taken. In the case of Kona, what used to get you a drop bar road bike now gets you a hybrid. And what used to get you a mid range bike now gets you an entry level road bike.

mstateglfr 

You said your Felt cost $1349 new. Thats higher than $1249. Also, your Z85 isnt entry level so why compare it to an entry level bike now?

The data you chose to use for this post is not meaningful and its confusing why you used it.

Hypno Toad

My Kona Dew Drop is a comfort bike with drop bars ... it's still a comfort bike design, and I would not call it a road bike.

IMO - the price of these entry level bikes is a good comparison that entry level bikes are basically the same price as they were 10 years ago. The bikes I've listed are comparable, not the same, but comparable. All bikes change year-to-year, making an apple-to-apple comparison basically impossible.

Hypno Toad

As I recall, the Z85 was Felt's entry level road bike in 2013. Do you know of a low-level Felt road bike from 2013?

The Kona comparison is the closest comparison I can find, bikes change names, components, designs too frequently to find a meaningful comparison over 10 years.

To be frank, many things make more sense in my head than they do when I type them ...

mstateglfr 

If their entry level bike had 105 shifting, a carbon fork, and carbon seatpost- then their entry level offering was significantly above the entry level of their competitors.
Felt apparently recognized a glaring void in their lineup and filled it. If your bike was the most entry level offering, then they were missing out on something with Claris/Sora/Tiagra. Thats a lot of marketshare to not even compete in, so apparently they decided to actually sell an entry level bike now.

As for if I know of a lower level Felt, I do not. I dont have any idea about Felt's offerings.

sloppy12

Huffy's single speeds with coaster break or the huffy with the beer cell phone holder that's a 7speed are both super popular on the campus I am on. both are under 150 the cranbrook cruiser is usually under a 100.

This year however its all old mountain bikes or vintage bikes. Like I am about breaking my neck sometimes because of the bikes that are chained up this year. I suspect the lack of cheap bikes at walmart has people dusting off grand pa's bike.

I know this much end of semester when surplus goes and picks all of the dead soldiers up I am going to make my wife mad dragging some of these things home.

MRT2

The Dew plus was $549 in 2009. It featured mechanical disc brakes, 3 x 8 drivetrain. 700c wheels and tires. The current Dew plus retails for , $779 currently. It features 650b wheels, and hydraulic discs, and a 1 x 10 drivetrain, which is a clear upgrade over the 2009 3 x 8. . All in all, one of the few brands that seems to be justifying a price increase with an increase in quality.
Kudos for Kona, and if anyone is listening, one of the few brands that is offering a decent value, even if it is at close to $800 retail.

unterhausen

Discussions of government monetary policy are strictly limited to the Politics and Religion forum.

Please take this into consideration when drafting your future posts.

Kapusta

So when someone wants to know why bikes are more expensive, and the reason has to do with inflation, which in part has to do with monetary policy, how does one answer?

Or if the answer has to due with tariffs, how do we answer?

Or if it has to do with exchange rates, how do we answer?

The problem here is that a question is being asked for which the answer has little to do with the bike industry itself, and most insightful answers with therefore be by necessity “off topic”.

OTOH, everything useful has been said, so maybe close the thread?

Bill in VA

That statement is a major mountain of assumption.

Many time a potential new rider is inquiring about a bike, they are actually scoping out the lay of the market and considering their own expectations and needs.

During this pandemic people with no prior interest in bikes looked to get a bike to get out and ride. They were not bike experts, and many were not short on cash. However, they also did not want to just throw down a major chunk of change on what might not be a long term interest. So they use the term basic bike, which many times means "not a full bore racing bike."

Unfortunately, there are many types of bike, and many entry points, and not all stores carry all types, and many sales folks pass on their biases and judgements, further confusing the prospective purchaser.

Then you get into the very elaborate and arcane caste systems of bicycling, bicycles, and accessories, and the endless debates about frame materials, brakes, and handlebars.

So as with the old question of "What is Truth?", so goes the question of "What is a basic bike?"

Is it quality? Is it the components, Is it ability to do many things well? Or, as often suggested is it cost alone? Remember, manufacturers now have many categories, adventure, gravel, road, hybrid, cruiser, etc., etc., etc. To me this is the largest hurdle for a person considering a bike. It is not raw entry level cost, but apprehension of making the wrong purchase, and the wrong price point, all while meeting their needs and/or expectations. Only then when they are out and about enjoying their new purchase will they encounter the bicycling caste system and judgement of other riders.

MRT2

This sounds like a good thread starter, and I get what you are saying. Even a person of some means, not starving or even lacking in disposable income, but then again not Zuckerberg or Bill Gates either. And that sort of person looking to try something out, but not sure if this will be their thing or not. And what does it take to get started.

So what is that person's idea of a basic bike? Such a person doesn't know for sure, but I think this is what such a person wants and doesn't want. They want something that is good quality, meaning something that will actually work. Gears will shift, brakes will stop the bike. Tires will hold air. Wheels will spin true. Pedals will be smooth. As for what this beginner hopes to do, mostly it is ride slowly or at a moderate pace on local roads, or trails, and if they plan to go off road, it is mostly of the groomed variety, so no roots, trees or rock gardens. And nothing too extreme. This person could be thinking of rides as short as 5 miles, or as long as 50, but probably not much longer than that, or they would be looking for something else.

And the person gets a myriad of choices. Drop bars or flat bars. Steel, aluminum, or carbon fiber. Disc or rim brakes. Even if they settle on something basic like a hybrid, there are 4 or 5 different kinds of hybrids at the local store. And they all cost a lot more than what a buyer who hasn't shopped for a bike recently expects to see.

livedarklions

Shimano has 70% market share in derailleurs and 50% in components over all. No one else even comes close. It's by far the least competitive part of the industry.

Ed Wiser

I remember when I started riding in the 80’s there was a wide variety of components manufactures. As more bike started to be made in China this has really caused this consolidation of components. An not in a good way. It’s not good to have one company have so much market share in a market.

BikeMike27

Some would just be regular inflation as well.

Kapusta

There are a lot of component companies in play in the MTB market these days.

Hypno Toad

FWIW - It could be worse: Yes, the price of plywood is up in the range of 252%, with market factors to blame