Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Disc Brake rubbing - help needed.

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Disc Brake rubbing - help needed.

Old 04-19-21, 11:13 AM
  #1  
Ti473
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Disc Brake rubbing - help needed.

Hey folks, I got a cannondale caad 10, QR disc.
I recently upgraded from a set of mavic Ksyrium Pro disc to EVNE SES 5.6.

Without getting into the debate of rim vs disc...

With the new wheels I cannot get rid of the annoying disc rub, but only when I put some torque on the front end while climbing/standing/accelerating.

Things to be said:

Rotors on new wheels are dura ace and are actually a tad thinner than the Sram on the Mavics
Rotors are true, calipers have been aligned perfectly (when bike is on the stand there's equal gap all the way around, no rubbing), pistons have been cleaned and retract evenly, pads are organic so should be quieter than metal ones.
The wheel is seated all the way in the dropouts and skewer is tight as hell. I noticed that it seemed to get a little better when I tightened the living crap out of it, but still a little rub.

Here's my guess to what's happening: there's a little flex/play in the hub that causes the evil rub. I don't know if the fact that the Enve's are really a 12x100 hub converted to 9x100 via caps exacerbates the problem. The Mavic hubs were born as a true 9x100 QR disc hub, and although things are a little finicky to get aligned (welcome to the disc world), I can always get them right.

I'm almost thinking about using one of those 12 to 9 sleeve adapters to see if it helps, although the clamping force should still be transferred from the fork to the end caps (it would be the 12mm caps though). to the to the axle to the hub body.

Before I resort to my park tool NE 4.1, any suggestions?
Ti473 is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 11:14 AM
  #2  
Ti473
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
P.S. This is on the front end only.
Ti473 is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 11:18 AM
  #3  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by Ti473
Hey folks, I got a cannondale caad 10, QR disc.
I recently upgraded from a set of mavic Ksyrium Pro disc to EVNE SES 5.6.

Without getting into the debate of rim vs disc...

With the new wheels I cannot get rid of the annoying disc rub, but only when I put some torque on the front end while climbing/standing/accelerating.

Things to be said:

Rotors on new wheels are dura ace and are actually a tad thinner than the Sram on the Mavics
Rotors are true, calipers have been aligned perfectly (when bike is on the stand there's equal gap all the way around, no rubbing), pistons have been cleaned and retract evenly, pads are organic so should be quieter than metal ones.
The wheel is seated all the way in the dropouts and skewer is tight as hell. I noticed that it seemed to get a little better when I tightened the living crap out of it, but still a little rub.

Here's my guess to what's happening: there's a little flex/play in the hub that causes the evil rub. I don't know if the fact that the Enve's are really a 12x100 hub converted to 9x100 via caps exacerbates the problem. The Mavic hubs were born as a true 9x100 QR disc hub, and although things are a little finicky to get aligned (welcome to the disc world), I can always get them right.

I'm almost thinking about using one of those 12 to 9 sleeve adapters to see if it helps, although the clamping force should still be transferred from the fork to the end caps (it would be the 12mm caps though). to the to the axle to the hub body.

Before I resort to my park tool NE 4.1, any suggestions?
Don't adjust the calibers so there is equal gap all around. Adjust them so they don't rub after releasing the brake lever. Just don't look at them. That's my 2 cents worth. Try it.
trailangel is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 11:22 AM
  #4  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by trailangel
Don't adjust the calibers so there is equal gap all around. Adjust them so they don't rub after releasing the brake lever. Just don't look at them. That's my 2 cents worth. Try it.
I'm pretty sure I know what you don't do for a living.
I think the OP is on the right track w/ his thinking, and it may end up being really hard to get this perfectly quiet.
cxwrench is offline  
Likes For cxwrench:
Old 04-19-21, 11:40 AM
  #5  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench
I'm pretty sure I know what you don't do for a living.
I think the OP is on the right track w/ his thinking, and it may end up being really hard to get this perfectly quiet.
You are right... I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, but I make a lot more money than a Richard like you!
trailangel is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 11:46 AM
  #6  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by trailangel
You are right... I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, but I make a lot more money than a Richard like you!
I'm very happy for you, and mightily impressed. Still doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Seems to be a typical stance for guys that make good money, you think it automatically includes knowledge.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 12:47 PM
  #7  
dsbrantjr
Senior Member
 
dsbrantjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 8,319

Bikes: '93 Trek 750, '92 Schwinn Crisscross, '93 Mongoose Alta

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1438 Post(s)
Liked 1,092 Times in 723 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench
I'm very happy for you, and mightily impressed. Still doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Seems to be a typical stance for guys that make good money, you think it automatically includes knowledge.
I can think of a certain politician who exemplifies this attitude.
dsbrantjr is offline  
Likes For dsbrantjr:
Old 04-19-21, 06:04 PM
  #8  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 421 Posts
Ouchie! Two Richards are better than one!
trailangel is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 06:09 PM
  #9  
Siu Blue Wind
Homey
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,519
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2424 Post(s)
Liked 1,392 Times in 891 Posts
__________________
Originally Posted by making
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 08:16 PM
  #10  
Ti473
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Well I'm glad we avoided the rim vs disc debate!
Ti473 is offline  
Likes For Ti473:
Old 04-19-21, 08:27 PM
  #11  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,280

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4253 Post(s)
Liked 3,866 Times in 2,579 Posts
Oh wow you make more money than the poor stupid bike monkey who dances for your crappy huffy good on you. I enjoy what I do and I am sure cxwrench would say the same. I get to be around bikes all day, sure I don't make a ton of money but I have a more fulfilling life than being some random schmuck in an office.

Anywho to not derail things further I think the disc brake problem is a tough one. It could be that you are getting some flex while you are pedaling and that can cause rubbing especially with QR wheels. I have certainly seen that when no rubbing in the stand but when you get in the saddle it will make little ticks here and there. There isn't a good solution for that aside from getting a new fork and going thru-axle but that is kind of the nuclear option and really isn't worth it. If it is significant rub than you rotor could be out of true which is getting more common these days especially with Shimano rotors sadly (they are usually great rotors with few issues but the past couple years have seen a slight increase in out of true rotors not huge but enough to notice it)
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 04-19-21, 09:56 PM
  #12  
Ti473
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
The rotor is as true as it's gonna get. Not to the micron or anything but after fine tuning it, it's probably truer than they come out of the box.

the gaps are pretty even and consistent all the way around when on the stand. I think the problem is flex in the hub. Like i said the other wheel does not rub, even with slightly thicker rotors, so i think fork is fine.
I have a spare set of QR caps for this that i am going to try to mod by flushing out the 9mm flange and opening the hole to 9mm so i can use a DT swiss RWS axle/skewer i just remembered i had laying around. This hopefully stiffens things up a little... We'll see
Ti473 is offline  
Old 04-19-21, 10:03 PM
  #13  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
If that isn't ominous I don't know what is...
cxwrench is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 05:49 AM
  #14  
BillyD
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,901

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11894 Post(s)
Liked 6,491 Times in 3,417 Posts
Glad to see someone got the hint. Let’s find a way to get along, or just move along.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Likes For BillyD:
Old 04-20-21, 07:19 AM
  #15  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
I am inclined to think that acceleration and hard pedaling in and of itself is not going to cause the front to rub.

Do you mean it rubs when the front wheel is side loaded? Does it rub if you are coasting in a straight line and lean the bike to one side?

Last edited by Kapusta; 04-20-21 at 07:23 AM.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 07:21 AM
  #16  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
Originally Posted by trailangel
You are right... I'm not a professional bicycle mechanic, but I make a lot more money than a Richard like you!
I was actually on Team Trailangel in this exchange until you dropped this turd.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 08:08 AM
  #17  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 421 Posts
Oh dear me... what have I done? I wasn't aware that only Professional Bike Mechanics were exclusive to the Mechanics portion of the website and they were the ones to respond to questions. I had no intentions of bringing out or offending the Prickly Petes here. In the future I will let the Pro BMs answer all the questions!
trailangel is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 08:41 AM
  #18  
Ti473
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta
I am inclined to think that acceleration and hard pedaling in and of itself is not going to cause the front to rub.

Do you mean it rubs when the front wheel is side loaded? Does it rub if you are coasting in a straight line and lean the bike to one side?
it does not rub if you're just pedaling in a straight line or even turning. But when you accelerate/stand and basically put some torque on the bars, it creates some flex that is enough to produce that rubbing. If I stand next to the bike and put some weight on the bars you can see the pads getting closer to the disc. I think to some degree flex is normal, but shouldn't be so much that pads rub.
Ti473 is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 08:41 AM
  #19  
RobertUI 
Monkey Boy
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 246

Bikes: '22 Surly Straggler, '15 Breezer Downtown EX, '19 Motobecane Record (fixie)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 53 Posts
Just throwing this out there, I was chasing down a brake rubbing issue during a ride last week, and it was driving me bonkers, every couple of miles, I was backing off the pads hoping to eliminate that stupid sound. In my case, it turns out that I was actually getting some spoke rub on the wheel. I retensioned the wheel (I neglect this bike even though it get used the most) and then the rubbing went away. I could not believe that I didn't think of that first (aero spokes in my case so a lot of surface area to rub). Anyway, just throwing it out there that there might be something else that's causing the noise. In my case, on the stand the wheel was silent, but under load it was noisy as heck.
__________________
Artist | Musician | Bass Player
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. (o.o)
RobertUI is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 09:14 AM
  #20  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,629
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1217 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times in 653 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench
I'm pretty sure I know what you don't do for a living.
I think the OP is on the right track w/ his thinking, and it may end up being really hard to get this perfectly quiet.
Start out with a unwarranted dig to someone who is offering a idea then offer no solution yourself. Very helpful.

I have had instances with SRAM calipers not moving equally and had to offset to stop rubbing.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 04-20-21 at 09:17 AM.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 09:16 AM
  #21  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Start out with a unwarranted dig to someone who is offering a idea then offer no solution yourself. Very helpful.
His offer of help was incorrect, that's not how you adjust a disc brake. The OP has done everything correctly so I can't offer any help, but I can warn him that certain advice shouldn't be followed.
cxwrench is offline  
Likes For cxwrench:
Old 04-20-21, 09:51 AM
  #22  
blamester
Blamester
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,044

Bikes: Peugeot teamline

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 101 Posts
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Start out with a unwarranted dig to someone who is offering a idea then offer no solution yourself. Very helpful.

I have had instances with SRAM calipers not moving equally and had to offset to stop rubbing.
Yes. The o.p overightened the skewer and it didn't fix it. So that doesn't work..
How big is the gap between piston and rotor?
Push on the wheel at the rim on the stand and see where the rub is. What play is in the hub to cause this? Which side does it rub.
You have to try other things.
Slacken the rotor bolts land pull the brake hard and rettorque the bolts. If that doesn't fix it try the caliper bolts. Test the brake before you ride it.
Or if it's very slight rub it will eventually wear in.

​​​​​​
blamester is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 12:52 PM
  #23  
redcon1
Senior Member
 
redcon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 549

Bikes: Focus Arriba, Specialized Roubaix Expert, Bianchi Impulso Allroad

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 53 Posts
I think maybe the torque introduced by the aggressive riding is slightly flexing the fork legs and causing the rub. I had an old MTB with first-gen hydraulic disc and QR hubs... and the flexy Judy Suspension fork definitely contributed to brake rub, even though none existed in the truing stand. Not a great solution from a cost standpoint, but maybe swap the fork out for one with a thru-axle and get a compatible wheel?

Or maybe just use two credit cards inserted in the caliper when you gap the brake pads like I did with that MTB.
redcon1 is offline  
Old 04-21-21, 07:21 AM
  #24  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,845

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 924 Times in 610 Posts
I double checked the thread title. It's about brakes, not other people.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Likes For Homebrew01:
Old 04-21-21, 10:14 AM
  #25  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times in 349 Posts
That is a pretty tight gap between the rotors. It's definitely due to flex when you get on it. So the question becomes, how do you get a little more space on either side of the rotor? You've done everything I would have tried to include cleaning the pistons and working them in and out to make sure they don't stick on one side or the other. You've aligned the caliper by hand.... The only thing left to try is bleeding the system, but I don't think it will fix the gap issue since you said the pistons are working as they should.
jadocs is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.