thdave

While I own a rain cape and like it for commuting, it doesn't pack well and I don't bring it on long rides. Also, my daily Helly Hanson windbreaker that I had worn for 15 years has begun to look shabby. So, trying to kill two birds with one stone, I bought a new daily windbreaker that was waterproof and packable--a Marmot Precip jacket. I had it with me when I went on a century ride (last summer) and a big rainstorm came and the Precip did not keep me dry, to be kind. I was a wet and cold rat. Frustrating.

So I found the receipt and sent the jacket back to Marmot. They tested it and replied that the coat still meets their waterproof criteria. Evidently, I'm an idiot and didn't really get drenched.

Yeah, I'm not too happy about this. But, they offered me a $100 credit to the retail (not sale) price of any of their products.

I'm considering sending them another $100 to buy the Minimalist, a $200 coat I tried on and liked and that has Gore-Tex. I read some of the reviews on the Marmot site and some said it wasn't waterproof, although most loved the coat. I don't know what's going on at Marmot, but this ticks me off. I can't get my money back and don't know if I should send good money after a bad coat. I'm wondering if I should just get another windbreaker like the Helly Hanson I had (and then buy a J&G raincoat), which had much better cuff/hood/waist adjustments than the Precip. Also, its back was vented. The Minimalist has pit zips, but the zips might be tough to find with gloves. Any other Marmot coats you might recommend? Will the Minimalist work for me? Is there a Marmot windbreaker that would be cheaper and high quality?

Thx.

erig007

I'm pretty happy with the Marmot Essence, it handles 3hrs showers nicely for me but i'm not in an area where it rains constantly so i don't know.
About the minimalist jacket I know someone that has a goretex paclite arcteryx jacket and after 4 years the waterproofness is completely gone. My 2 years old jacket is way more waterproof in comparison.

teicher

I don't know if the $100 credit covers the amount you paid, but hopefully it does. I'm shocked they would've said that to you instead of just offering a full refund and a "sorry this didn't meet your needs" kind of letter. If I were you I'd put that credit towards some other marmot item that you could use and get another rain jacket from a brand like Eddie Bauer or similiar that offers a lifetime satisfaction guarantee.

baldilocks

Sorry about the issue with your coat. I was curious about what type of rain cape you had. I'm thinking that might be what I need for commuting. PS. I know almost nothing about riding in the rain, except getting wet.

jfowler85

That's Marmot for you...North Face as well. They're kind of like the discount little brothers of Cloudveil and Arc T'rex (or however their goofy name is spelled). Take your qualm up their corporate chain of command; it's unacceptable that some customer service jerk is trying to tell you that you are wrong because their product didn't deliver.

PolarBear007

^ This. 110%.

Though i'd look to dedicated "adventure" brands than fashion brands. I'm not a "The North Face" fan for down-filled items, but they do have some nice shell gear. Marmot used to have excellent waterproof/breathable stuff - that's too bad about their Precip jacket. I had heard great things about that line.

When i used to do a lot of climbing/mountaineering i bought Mountain Hardwear's top shell parka (their "Ethreal FTX"). After maybe two years of less-than-impressive performance the shell fabric started to de-laminate. I sent it back to them and they were awesome. They gave me a full-price MSRP credit toward anything in their line-up. I choose a couple items but their combined cost was something around $15 more than the credit. The Warranty guy said no problem and sent me the two items. One is a light-weight rain/wind resistant jacket. I'm unimpressed with it as well so i don't know if i'd go with Mountain Hardwear again for waterproof/breathable.

Honestly, my current "go-to" waterproof/breathable parka is something from Cabela's of all places. It's their "Guidewear" parka and is the best waterproof/breathable parka i've had in 20 years. And i've owned top pieces from every major adventure brand in the US except Arcteryx.

Cabela's offerings are too heavy for biking so i'd shop Helly Hansen, Go-Lite or TNF. There are some good options available from running sports brands, but i'm not familiar with them....

thdave

Yes, it does. I paid $80 so $100 is great. But, the scam is their test for waterproofness. The guy on the phone told me that some of their waterproof coats are more waterproof than others. That was a remarkable statement. They have different "waterproof" definitions for different coats. It could be that none of their coats keep you dry.

fuzz2050

There are certainly different levels of "Waterproof," most companies use a measurement of Hydrostatic Head, that is the pressure that a column of water has to exert to push it's way through a fabric. Marmot claims the HH of their jacket is at least 10,000 mm, which should be plenty waterproof. However, materials like Goretex Paclite claim a HH of 28,000 mm, which is certainly 'more' waterproof, is unlikely to make a real difference in actual use.

As a point of reference, so those numbers mean something to you, many tents (at least of the ultra-light variety) get by using fabrics with a hydrostatic head closer to 1,000 mm and are still plenty waterproof.

If I had to guess, your jacket might not have been leaking, but you might have. It's been my experience that the "Breathable" in waterproof breathable fabric is almost always a joke, and that regardless of how waterproof a jacket is, using it in any sort of aerobic activity will result in my getting drenched with my own sweat.

thdave

Thanks for the insight, fuzz. i wonder what the hydrostatic head of a true rain coat is, the clammy type made of plastic or waxed cotton.

I had gone about 80 miles when the storm hit, so I was pretty sweaty beforehand. But after the storm I was completely drenched. Teh temperature dropped, so i was cold and wet when I finished. But, the coat failed on many other occasions, too. I wore the coat to a football game when it rained, and became drenched. I wore it sightseeing in Ireland and got soaked there, too. The coat is barely better, in terms of waterproofing, than a cotton hoodie. My issue is true protection from the elements.

fuzz2050

10,000 mm should be plenty for a rain jacket, it's enough for a motorcycle jacket meant to resist wind driven rain at 60 MPH. Although if you're getting soaked watching a football game, something is clearly wrong.

It could be that the construction of your jacket was faulty, maybe the seams weren't taped properly, or maybe it just fits poorly, allowing water to leak in through the hood and sleeves.

thdave

I thought the same, yet Marmot says it passed their test.

erig007

Marmot precip use coatings instead of laminates that are used in the Marmot Essence for instance which means that the waterproof layer will likely be uneven and air permeability far less than for a laminated jacket. Coated jackets are usually cheaper than laminated jackets.

FAQ: Fabric Coatings vs Laminates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pVgpMk2BcE
(pretty sure that the laminated jacket in this video is the Marmot Essence)

hyhuu

There is nothing wrong with the Precip waterproof. My experience was that their coating isn't as breathable as Goretex. The wetness you experienced was just your own sweat. That said, for bike riding, especially in the rain in the summer, even Goretex still won't make any difference.

thdave

Marmot agrees with you. The fact that I sat (not sweating) in the stands at the football game and got drenched isn't proof enough for them or even a fellow commuter.

fietsbob

the DWR chemical surface treatment on a new Jacket wears off , so the water no longer beads up.

of course the company uses tests of brand new products. not those with, say, 3 years of use.

canklecat

Thanks for that link to ProLiteGear reviews. I think. I ended up watching an hour's worth of their videos. Very informative. Apparently Gore-Tex isn't nearly as good as we've been led to believe. ProLiteGear reviews indicate it isn't "breathable" (air permeable) at all, unless something has changed since their 2014 reviews.

hyhuu

Relax. In your post, you talked about century ride in the summer rain and that's what I was responding to. At that price point, the Precip is only good for a passing shower. Any prolong rain and the DWR coating will be overwhelmed and the condensation from inside can build up quickly.

fuzz2050

I'll elaborate, because what you're saying is generally helpful, although it might not apply in this particular case. Waterproof breathable fabrics can only breath when the DWR is keeping the outer face free of water. When the DWR fails and the outer fabric wets out (and it's a when, not an if), then the breathability goes down dramatically.

However, since the waterproof breathable membrane relies on differences in temperature to drive the flow of water vapor, warm, wet weather can be challenging. I've never found a Waterproof breathable fabric that breathes enough to be bearable. For most conditions, I usually use a wool layer and a windshell with a decent DWR and settle on being comfortably damp.

And of course, none of this really applies to the OP, since a plastic bag should keep you dry when watching a football game.

tarwheel 

If you are able to reboot and buy a different brand, I highly recommend the Showers Pass Elite rain jacket. I've had mine more than two years and it is everything I'd want in a rain jacket -- waterproof, wind resistant, highly breathable and ventilated, and visible. I rode thru a downpour all the way home yesterday (60 minutes) and my upper body was totally dry when I took off the jacket after I got home.

thdave

While I would have loved to try the Showers Pass or the J&G, given that I already had $100 credit with Marmot I paid another $100 and ordered the Marmot Minimalist. This is Gore-Tex with Paclite waterproofing. I still feel angry at Marmot, but at least the coat looks good, lays well and has better adjustments at the cuff and waist for cycling than the Precip, and has pit-zips with bigger zippers. I'll write a review of the coat in a month or so, after a couple of rides in the rain.