tps5352

I purchased this new from the Freewheeler store in Davis, California in 1983/4. Since I don't ride much anymore, I'd like to assess value and potential interest.

It is perhaps notable for two reasons:

1. Obvious strength of the Tange butted CroMoly steel tubes "Champion Mt. Bike" frame and front fork. This was from the still relatively early period of "over-engineered" mountain bikes, as I recall.
2. A true frame size of 25 inches (center of B/B to top of colored seat tube--definitely for tall riders. (In those days shops were putting tall riders on mt. bike frames that were too small, imo, in part because that's all they had. Ross was hand-building its Signature line, and it offered a tall frame.)

This (original blue) bike one has all the scratches and surface rust that comes with 40 years of (mostly street) use. But frame integrity is fine--never damaged. It will come with Phil Wood-sealed-bearing-hub wheelsets (S/S spokes; 2 sets) and Suntour-sealed-bearing wheelset (S/S spokes; 1 set), plus new tires and lots of parts. Fully functional right now, but needs paint restoration to look pretty.

Any ideas about approximate value?

Thanks.

es1bkacsur

I had a Ross Signature 924S with the full Campagnolo Triomphe component group that sold for just over $300. Your bike will be worth less due to a different component group but hopefully this can give you a yardstick to go by. Some pics would be ALOT of help.

tps5352

Thanks. I will wash it and take some photos.

tps5352

OK I was able to add some photos.

I have also posted a CL ad on my local Sacramento California CL website.

tps5352

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SurferRosa

$100

There's so much weirdness going on with the cockpit and seatpost area. Mismatched wheels that look nothing like each other are a turnoff. And the paint on the top tube is pretty bad.

tps5352

*

Hmm. Thanks for your assessment but I will respectfully disagree with some of it. The paint shows 36 years of of wear, yes. You are right--the frame needs to be stripped and re-painted for sure. But the 26" wheels are not "mismatched." At least, I don't think so. Should be the same rims, hubs, tires, and spokes front and rear, I believe. They came "built" from the Phil Woods people in the San Francisco Bay area, as I recall.


The aluminum seat-post is original. It adjusts (w/Q/R) both up-down and forward-back. Gimmicky, I know. But people were trying different things in the relatively new world of mountain biking back in the day. (I notice that the saddle is angled too far down for some reason.)


The spring attached to the Q/R seat post clamp is an interesting little device I added back in the '80s or '90s. Back then (maybe still?) you were supposed to lower your butt/seat sometimes, raise it at other times during aggressive (down- and up-hill) off-road riding. A quick-release on the seat post (as shown) helped, but how to return the seat to the higher position without stopping? This spring was the answer. You could loosen the Q/R, compress the seat (with your weight), then tighten the Q/R with one hand--all without stopping. Or at least that was the idea. By loosening the Q/R again the seat popped back up to its original higher position. Just a gimmick, I guess, but it did work. Once I figured out that the vast majority of my riding was on pavement, I nonetheless kept the spring because it was a very-effective casual seat-theft deterrent for city bikes with Q/R seat post clamps.


The front handlebar/stem area is busy and (in these shots) odd-looking, but it is all bolt-on, so what's the problem with that? As I aged, I found I needed to sit upright more or even stand during long rides. So I added bar-ends that could be adjusted upright, covered them in thick foam, and also added other handlebar accessories (e.g., comfort hand grips and "polite" bells--Amazing how walkers, joggers, and kids obliviously take up the entire width of a Davis, California bike path. You don't want to constantly have to "yell" at these people.). But all that stuff can be stripped off in minutes (for a younger rider).


The front stem and handle bars (Specialized X-2) are not modern, for sure. But they were so beautifully built of high-quality-grade aluminum, Just excellent. The same things came on the early Stumpjumpers, which were good bikes in their day. In fact I would have purchased a Stumpjumper. but I worked at a store that sold Ross, not Specialized, bikes so there was that; and I could get a hefty discount on what was an expensive hand-built bike at that time. (It took forever to be built and delivered.) And the Ross came in a larger frame size. (I think the largest Stumpjumper at the time was 24", maybe?)


In my opinion, a potential project bike should not be judged so much on removable accessories. They all come off easily. It is the FRAME, and accessories that are brazed on or otherwise non-removeable, that are most important to consider, imo. (And of course the wheelsets, too.)

plonz 

When you sell a house, the agent recommends to de-clutter, put away knick knacks and take down pictures in an effort to “de-personalize” the home. That’s what this bike needs when it comes time to sell. Level the seat, lose the frame pad thingy and straighten up the cockpit.

For all that, I’ll squeeze out another quarter and call it $125. Maybe $150 for the tall person who can’t find a tall bike in this price range.

Cyclist3098765

What does the signature on the left chainstay read?
Jim Redcay made some of these bikes, they can be quite valuable.

T-Mar

Vintage ATBs have limited appeal. Deviations from OEM spec make it even less appealing, despite the grade of the newer components. The very large frame size is another negative. This has far more value as a part out, provided you are willing to spend the extra time. As noted, it presents poorly with tilted saddle, cluttered cockpit and rack. It may suit your tastes just fine but will turn off the vast majority of potential buyers. Weight is a prime consideration for most potential buyers. A stock 1984 Mt. McKinley is a 30+ lb ATB. A 35 lb version will just have people walking away. Strip it down to the bare minimum (i.e. no brake boosters, Hite-Rite, rack, bar ends, bottle cages, pump, bell, light). You can offer them as extras to potential buyers for a small fee. Also, the SPD pedals will have limited appeal. Your best to throw on a cheap pair bear traps and offer the SPDs as an option.

TugaDude

I agree that if the goal is to make the most money, parting it out is the way to go. If the hubs are in good shape, they are the plum of the entire package. Ross make some good frames, yes, but as a brand, it really isn't well known. If it was made by Redcay, yes, there might be added interest among some, but not the general public. They couldn't care less. I wouldn't agree that is makes the bike "quite valuable". I would say it might help.

Vintage ATBs are making a comeback in some markets. Some buyers who used to look for road bikes are now leaning towards ATBs or hybrids, so there is that. But the paint is a big deterrent. In my market I can get Trek ATBs from the same era in much better shape for around $75 to $100 all day long.

You indicated it is listed. Let's see what happens. Keep in mind you are getting opinions from well-versed bike people here. The general public is another animal.

wrk101

The first thing I look at when evaluating a vintage bike is the paint. Negative there.

The second thing I look for is rust: fasteners tend to show rust first. Negative there.

The third thing I look for are original parts: Pedals, brakes, saddle. Negative there.

On a bike to collect, it's easier and CHEAPER to pay more for a copy without these negatives.


At that point, I do an assessment on what is left that I can use on other projects: thumb shifters, stem, crankset (missing original dust caps), wheels.


You've gotten a lot of GREAT advice here from people who have sold a lot of bikes. Take the advice or ignore it, that is your choice. My analysis after all is just one opinion, but based on buying and selling about 750 vintage bikes in the last 10 years. I can tell you for sure, much like the home market, fixer uppers sell for less, A LOT less.


FWIW: there is another Ross MTB, a chrome Mt Hood, on your C/L for $100. Needs a lot of love, but it is much more original with desirable parts: pedals, wheels, roller cam brakes, etc. If I was in Sacramento, I would buy that Mt Hood. Light rust on the frame, but I am used to that and have successfully treated such rust. I bought a nearly identical chrome Mt Hood in my market last year. It was an earlier model than the one for sale, so it had some more desirable parts. Price paid was low.

zukahn1 

To get the most for the bike I would say take the Phill Wood wheelset and all the extras none stock stuff off the bike and sell it with just the 1 Suntour wheelset for $150 or so locally. Then sell the Phill woods hubs seperate you can get a $100 or so for each hub set with skewers. This will get you more than twice what you will get selling the bike with the extra wheels basically when you sell a used bike you get little or no more for stuff like extra wheels so you would just be giving away a couple of hundred dollars or more in nice parts selling everything together.

tps5352

Thanks. Interestingly, that frame pad was a factory feature. It attaches to the frame with braze-ons. I'd never seen that before. Maybe they used something like that at the time in Europe for cyclocross or something?

Anyway, it came with the bike. (It was handy anytime I had to carry the bike for short distances. Protected the shoulder.)

tps5352

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback.

wrk101

Yes, that frame pad was stock on many MTBs in that era. Assisted in carrying the bike.

IMHO, based on selling similar MTB wheels on Ebay, depending on condition, the two wheel sets should bring about $300, less fees of course.

Bike complete, including the extra wheel set, might at best bring about $100. Thats the nature of Ross MTB + Huge Size + Lots of wear. Crankset, stem, thumb shifters, seat post, and wheels all have good value. 50/50 local buyer will part it out.

Cyclist3098765

The last Redcay built Ross Signature mountain bike I saw sold for $900. I offered $700 and was told no.
Granted this was two years ago in a stronger market and that bike was smaller 23", mostly original and in better (but not perfect) shape.
These bikes are not really comparable to a Mt Hood anymore than a Tom Kellogg built Ross is comparable to a 290s.
Jim Redcay built bikes are rare and every bit as good as a Kellogg built bike.
I have emailed the seller through CL about this bike but I am across the country and I don't think he wants to ship it. If it's just poor paint (no dings, dents, cracks, bends, repairs or major rust) and it were next door to me and with the extras listed I would be there with $500 in my pocket hoping to make a deal.

tps5352

It says "Mt. McKinley," the name of the model. It is interesting, to me, that Ross chose a series of west coast mountains as names for their mountain bikes. A nod to the west coast origin (that's right, isn't it?) of mountain bikes, I guess.

Would the numbers stamped into the bottom of the B/B shell contain any information about builder?

580 2529
84 020

I assume they mean 20th bike of 1984. Maybe Model #? Maybe number out of all Custom shop bikes? I don't know.

I read that Tom Kellogg was there for two years, but that he probably left Ross before 1983.

Cyclist3098765

That is interesting about the model name, I have only seen bikes like yours with the Redcay signature, not the model name. The seat lug and stay area is very distinctive though and points to this being a top end bike.
Tom Kellogg left Ross in 1982 to form Spectrum cycles.
According to the Ross bikes Wikipedia page, Jim Redcay made the Signature mountain bikes in 1982, but I do not know when he stopped doing so. Another possible builder is Jeff Duser, who was hired from Ross by Kellogg to work at Spectrum in 1985. He actually built many of the Spectrum bikes and is an extremely talented unsung hero of the frame building world.
Although recently retired, you might try contacting Tom Kellogg, he might be able to tell you who made the bike. Spectrum.tom@gmail
Still worth more than the average Ross, in my opinion.

Cyclist3098765

The serial number on my Kellogg Ross reads 200 (model) 2412 (size) 09 (month) 81 (year) 082 (sequence number of 1981) as I understand it.

Yours being model 580, size 25", year 84, the 20th bike built that year sounds about right.

As for the name, Mt. McKinley is the highest peak in the US, so the top of the line bike is named accordingly. I think the lesser models were named after smaller mountains in order of height / place in the lineup.

Cyclist3098765

1982 Ross catalog model 600 touts Jim Redcay as builder:

1983 catalog lists Mt. McKinley as model 580, still custom built, available in any Ross color, but does not mention Redcay. Frames look very similar though.