D1andonlyDman

Except not at the lowest price that they were offering when only the 23s were available in stock.

ErichVonCartman

I don't know what make you think this is a game of intelligence.

I was just pointing out that 23mm tires are easier to find for cheaper, and that we Electrical Engineers are the smartest of the smarts. It seems that both upsets you! I would bring in my good looks but I won't do that for fear that mean take you over the edge. See how considerate and passionate Erich is?

I am not going to mention how it seems I am not the only one that finds more deals on 23mm tires than 25mm tires... Because I want the rest of your day to be a good day.

COMPASSION!

ErichVonCartman

Let's keep this to ourselves so others can have a good day

Doge

There can be a significant difference - more significant - on tires based on casing material, thickness and tread material and coverage. It is generally accepted that tougher less flat prone materials do not also offer the most supple and lowest rolling resistant tire. There are compromises.
While I don't know a whole bunch about tire tests I do know that some teams will not race the tires of their sponsors and paint/de-badge and buy other tires that are not on the tested list. The three below are all 25s. They are very different in how they perform. None of these are tested tires.

svtmike

Those are the pinnacle of Forte tires, which is kind of like describing the tallest moutain in Dallas. They are cut rate low tpi tires with poor flat protection. I've tried a few different Forte tires and found them to be awful riding, prone to punctures, and just generally of a quality commensurate with their price. They are nothing like GP4000s (which ride better, grip better, and resist flats better but aren't good enough for me to be a fan) or my personal favorite, the Vittoria Corsa Evo.

If you enjoy having to stop unexpectedly and enjoy changing flats wherever you might be and whatever might be happening around you under whatever weather conditions happen to be at the time, have at them.

Doge

I've been a tubular guy since about the late 70s. We dabble with clinchers, but keep coming back. Once I decided to stop using race tires for training we pretty much wear most training tubulars to the cord. Most flats can be fixed with Stans - or Vittoria Pit Stop which is not as good, but has pressure in it. I do get hand-me-downs that are not so great, but still beats dealing with clinchers, tape and tubes (not doing tubeless) - and flats.

jischr

I can tell the difference between a 23 Pro 4 and a 25 Pro 4 because the 25 is almost a 28 (barely fits my frame). I can tell the difference between a 23 Pro 4 and a 25 Veloflex Corsa because the construction is completely different, even though the Veloflex is closer to 24. 23 vs 25 (a real 25) of the same make and model? I'd need a couple thousand in test equipment to notice it.

ErichVonCartman

For the high performers, only tires I have ridden where Michelin Pro's. I want to try something else as well as try 25mm. I am heavily leaning towards the Vit Open Corsa Evo over the GP4000's. I love the Michelins, but it seems both the GP4000 and Vit OCE overall gets much better reviews from guys that have tried all 3. The Vitt seems to be a better roller and performer over the GP4000s, but they also seem to be more fragile. Right now on EBay, I can get 25mm Vit OCEs for $72 per pair while the GP 4000 25mm go for about $90 per pair. The roads where I ride are in good shape, so the toughness of the GP4000s is not really a crucial requirement for me.

colnago62

Question for those of you that have used sealant in your tubulars, does the sealant eventually plug up the valve, making it difficult to add air to the tires?

colnago62

I have found 25 mm tires harder to find, but not more expensive.

Lazyass

I don't know why you brought up your college major out of the blue when it has nothing to do with bicycle tires. Oh, yes I do. It was because you wanted to make an attempt to impress me

Oh my. I wish my former students at Princeton could see this.

No, I said I always see 23's and 25's at the same price, you were shocked and offended that someone would dare challenge an ELECTRICAL ENGINEER so you asked me if I was blind. An insult that was allowed to stand. Then you posted a link of a bunch of tires that was irrelevant.

Lazyass

I'm on my 2nd set of Pro+'s and just put another pair on my rain bike. I've never had one flat with them. I haven't had any flats at all in over 10,000 miles. I had multiple flats with GP4000's and did not find them to be any more smoother rolling, only more expensive. I think they sucked.

The Pro+ is 120TPI, which isn't "low". The Conti is not actually 330TPI, they have three plies totaling 330

ErichVonCartman

you were the one that originally brought up intelligence and I was just playing along. Erich loves to play along!

did your buddies major in basket weaving at Princess?

Oh i get it now! You were talking about retail paper price while I was talking about what I could get on close out or clearance. I see you are still blind.

please discuss..

ErichVonCartman

Harder to find on close out and harde to find in general. 23 are just more common. But on paper in the Andromeda Alternate Reverse Universe they are plenty bountiful! LETS TALK ABOUT PAPER HERE!

Sy Reene

I was looking around at alternatives to Mich Pro4s. Can anyone explain the Vittoria tire naming conventions.. specifically for clinchers? On shopping websites I see Open Corsa SC, CX, SL, and SR (nothing with Evo?) on eg. Ribble. On .. On Vittoria's website I see only Corsa Speed "G" and regular Corsa as 'competition' models and Corsa Elite which is listed as a training model.

Lazyass

You got banned over at road bike review for trolling so you open an account at MTBR, then you apparently thought you could start a thread bashing moderators, calling them all lazy and average Joe's, carrying on about how pretty you are and whatever other nonsense and you didn't stop to think that would get you banned from that site as well? Sorry, but that doesn't sound like someone who is too sharp

So after getting banned from MTBR you open an account here, and you've kept it pretty tame but I see you're getting it going again. I did nothing but say I always see the different tire sizes at the same sale price, then you come in saying I'm blind and whatever BS. Just leave me the hell alone, Mr. wannaabe Electrical Engineer who thinks he looks pretty. Mmmky? Thanks.

noodle soup

you forgot to mention that the tread often peels away from the casing, and that the casing itself often tears internally.

Tires, shoes, and saddles are bad places to cheap out.

wphamilton

All three are kind of my go-to for saving money although I relent a little lately with respect to tires.

But anyway I thought this was about 23 vs 25 of the same brand. I think that the variations are considerably more between brands than between sizes.

thin_concrete

This has been my experience as well.

BillyD

You two guys need to lighten up . . . *I'm* the smartest one here.

D1andonlyDman

No, actually, it's more like the tallest mountain in Pennsylvania. It's pretty obvious that you're extrapolating your experience with other Forte tires to the Pro+ tires, which are better than the others. They are 120 TPI tires with good flat protection. I've ridden them for well over 5000 miles and I flatted exactly once when I rode over a bunch of broken glass. Vittoria Corsa Evos are better tires, but they cost 3-4 times as much. The Forte Pro+ tires are directly comparable to the Vittoria Rubino Pros, except that the Fortes last longer. Sure, $50+ tires are better than $20-30 tires, but that's not news. What IS news is that the Forte Pro+ tires, which can be gotten for under $15 when they are on sale, are as good as any $25-30 tires. If you wanted to argue that the higher end tires might be more supple and have lower rolling resistance, I wouldn't disagree. But you're simply mistaken as it relates to flat resistance.

ErichVonCartman

This maybe so, of all the Mods I have ever encountered, you seem to have at least some sense in you.

Also why did my post get deleted. All I said was LA is blind, and he comes back with how stupid Erich is, and also comes back with more Hatez on Erich, and then tells of Erich entire Internet History! all because Erich said he was blind!

Also, it seems Erich is not imagining that deals on 23mm tires are easier than 25mm, because others have have also stepped forward and also stated that deals on 23mm are easier to find than 25mm. I guess these people must have their eyes opened.

I don't fault LA for wanting to keep his eyes closed. Sometimes, staying in the blue pill world is a much better place the real red pill world.

wphamilton

Don't look at wphamilton for support, he snatches the deals off the internet without caring. Which is even smarter than engineering electricity, and almost as smart as knowing how to keep the tire rubber where it's supposed to be.

ErichVonCartman

There is no Undergrad at any University smarter and more Logical than a EE. Most people are good with street smarts or simple thing smarts, but EE is complex where the answers can take up to 100 steps to get to. Most people can't deal with problems that takes more than 2 steps.

As for skimping on tires.. The tires are literally where the rubber meat and meets the road. I did tend to skimp on tires and look for deals, but I have decided to stop doing that, and just ride what I want regardless of cost. In the big picture, spending $80 for a set instead of $40 is insignificant to the enjoyment you get from the ride.

I myself think 23mm are plenty fast, and can't see 25mm being faster. Only reason I want 25mm is to go lower pressure. Having the ability to run lower pressure is like adding suspension! On my Santa Cruz Nomad, I am running 18 lbs front and rear without issues. The bike is magic when running pressure that low.

svtmike

I don't believe I ever flatted a GP4000S. I had one flat on an Evo, but that was a hole at the valve (probably my mistake, not a tire failure). I do ride really good roads.

A buddy of mine says the Specialized Turbo is pretty much indiscernible from the Evo from a feel point of view. But as you note the Vitt is pretty easy to find at a decent price.