Improving braking on 1997 Gary Fisher Tassajara?
#1
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Improving braking on 1997 Gary Fisher Tassajara?
I picked up a small framed rigid Gary Fisher for next to nothing for my 12 yr old son to ride until he grows enough to fit on my old mountain bike. I put the wheels from my old mountain bike on the GF, replaced all the cables, added a new Acera RD, new brake pads, and replaced the 7sp Grip Shift with Suntour friction thumbshifters.
I'm not real happy with the braking performance yet. Would replacing the brake levers improve braking performance? If so, does anyone have a good suggestion for a good replacement lever for cantilever brakes?
I have some cheap linear pull brakes in my parts drawer I pulled off a Walmart bike I rescued from the dumpster. I could buy some linear pull brake levers for those brakes instead...
I'm not real happy with the braking performance yet. Would replacing the brake levers improve braking performance? If so, does anyone have a good suggestion for a good replacement lever for cantilever brakes?
I have some cheap linear pull brakes in my parts drawer I pulled off a Walmart bike I rescued from the dumpster. I could buy some linear pull brake levers for those brakes instead...
#2
Really Old Senior Member
New pads, PROPERLY ALIGNED wouldn't hurt.
Having less stud sticking out would improve the geometry a bit.
You also want to put a reflector or bolt or something to catch the straddle cable in case the brake cable breaks.
Having less stud sticking out would improve the geometry a bit.
You also want to put a reflector or bolt or something to catch the straddle cable in case the brake cable breaks.
Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 06-15-20 at 09:23 AM.
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I picked up a small framed rigid Gary Fisher for next to nothing for my 12 yr old son to ride until he grows enough to fit on my old mountain bike. I put the wheels from my old mountain bike on the GF, replaced all the cables, added a new Acera RD, new brake pads, and replaced the 7sp Grip Shift with Suntour friction thumbshifters.
I'm not real happy with the braking performance yet. Would replacing the brake levers improve braking performance? If so, does anyone have a good suggestion for a good replacement lever for cantilever brakes?
I have some cheap linear pull brakes in my parts drawer I pulled off a Walmart bike I rescued from the dumpster. I could buy some linear pull brake levers for those brakes instead...
I'm not real happy with the braking performance yet. Would replacing the brake levers improve braking performance? If so, does anyone have a good suggestion for a good replacement lever for cantilever brakes?
I have some cheap linear pull brakes in my parts drawer I pulled off a Walmart bike I rescued from the dumpster. I could buy some linear pull brake levers for those brakes instead...
V brakes would be much easier to set up and can contribute to better braking.
Better pads also help, like Kool Stop branded ones.
Brake boosters also help.
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Thanks for the advice so far. I should work on adjusting the pads a little more before I give up with the current setup. It seems if that doesn't cut the mustard, I should go to liner pull brakes.
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I have found that good V-brakes with Shimano 3 finger trekking brake levers give a lot of braking power. I have Avid SD-7 V-brakes with Shimano T780 levers and Kool Stop pads on my '95 Trek and they are very responsive.
The T780 levers are hard to find and are expensive, but Shimano does makes Deore T611 3 finger brake levers. Also getting a bit tougher to find, and not cheap, but they look like they will do the job.
Unfortunately cheap V-brakes may not be any better than what you have.
John
The T780 levers are hard to find and are expensive, but Shimano does makes Deore T611 3 finger brake levers. Also getting a bit tougher to find, and not cheap, but they look like they will do the job.
Unfortunately cheap V-brakes may not be any better than what you have.
John
#6
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^This^ From the second picit looks like the top of the brake pad is hitting the tire, not the rim. That'll blow your tube and ruin your tire in a ride or two. And from the third pic, it looks like the right arm is pulling all the way back and making the left arm drag the rim. Pads should be set up symmetrical to each other. And where the brake cable goes thru the straddle assembly, you need to 'lock' the cable into the other slot after you complete your adjustments.
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^This^ From the second picit looks like the top of the brake pad is hitting the tire, not the rim. That'll blow your tube and ruin your tire in a ride or two. And from the third pic, it looks like the right arm is pulling all the way back and making the left arm drag the rim. Pads should be set up symmetrical to each other. And where the brake cable goes thru the straddle assembly, you need to 'lock' the cable into the other slot after you complete your adjustments.
#8
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New levers without upgrading to linear pull brakes will do absolutely nothing. Proper setup and proper pads are 90% of the equation, even with old cantilever brakes. You may want to scour those rims with alcohol and maybe take some fine steel wool to them.
EDIT: And lock that cable where it first goes through the straddle guide.
EDIT: And lock that cable where it first goes through the straddle guide.
Last edited by Rogerogeroge; 06-15-20 at 06:22 PM. Reason: add
#9
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You might want to read through these-
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rim-brakes.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rim-brakes.html
#10
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Take it to a local shop and have them adjust them. There is no reason that these shouldn't work. It just looks like these aren't properly done.
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You might want to read through these-
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rim-brakes.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rim-brakes.html
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Regardless of what Sheldon said, rest his soul, cantilevers are a royal pain and really don’t stop better. All the physics in the world could never bring them back after V-brakes. The CX canti’s made a comeback with V-brake pads, but discs will return them back to the parts bin.
I say this with a bike that has very good cantilever brakes (XTR) and I still hate setting them up. I will need to get good V-brake replacements soon as they are quickly disappearing from sight.
John
I say this with a bike that has very good cantilever brakes (XTR) and I still hate setting them up. I will need to get good V-brake replacements soon as they are quickly disappearing from sight.
John
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#13
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I put XT V-Brakes on my old trek to replace LX Cantis, and I have a very similar bike too with the original cantis, and there just is no comparison. V-brakes are so much better. Lighter touch, better feel, better stopping and easier to adjust. Cantis are just spongy at best.
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#14
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First of all, MAKE SURE the brakes are setup correctly before riding the bike. Take it to a mechanic if you have to. The picture of the pad jammed into the tire is alarming even if you've adjusted it since then. The nuts holding the pads need to be very tight to prevent them from moving. After tightening the cable pinch bolts, squeeze each brake lever as hard as you can. If the cable slips, you didn't tighten it enough. Greasing threads helps to get adequate tightness without stripping the threads, as on most parts of a bicycle.
Cantilevers get a lot of flack and they can be a pain to setup, but when they're properly setup with good pads they will provide adequate braking power to skid the rear tire with the rear brake alone and lift the rear wheel with the front brake. Though they may require more hand effort. Proper cable routing and clean housing cuts are important for any brake. With that said, I've setup few cantilevers to offer the braking power and nice feel of a good set of V-brakes. I converted my own Tassajara to V-brakes many years ago and haven't bothered to go back. For me the main reason to use cantilevers is on bikes with wide tires and fenders where a V-brake won't clear. And when using drop bars to allow "classic" brake levers instead of the massive V-brake drop bar levers.
The main cable must be snapped into the other slot on the yoke (yellow arrow.) The slot it's in now is for getting the brake setup. It will feel mushy if you try to use it like that.
Cantilevers get a lot of flack and they can be a pain to setup, but when they're properly setup with good pads they will provide adequate braking power to skid the rear tire with the rear brake alone and lift the rear wheel with the front brake. Though they may require more hand effort. Proper cable routing and clean housing cuts are important for any brake. With that said, I've setup few cantilevers to offer the braking power and nice feel of a good set of V-brakes. I converted my own Tassajara to V-brakes many years ago and haven't bothered to go back. For me the main reason to use cantilevers is on bikes with wide tires and fenders where a V-brake won't clear. And when using drop bars to allow "classic" brake levers instead of the massive V-brake drop bar levers.
The main cable must be snapped into the other slot on the yoke (yellow arrow.) The slot it's in now is for getting the brake setup. It will feel mushy if you try to use it like that.
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My old Klein Pulse has XT canti's and I have no problems adjusting those...
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Regardless of what Sheldon said, rest his soul, cantilevers are a royal pain and really don’t stop better. All the physics in the world could never bring them back after V-brakes. The CX canti’s made a comeback with V-brake pads, but discs will return them back to the parts bin.
I say this with a bike that has very good cantilever brakes (XTR) and I still hate setting them up. I will need to get good V-brake replacements soon as they are quickly disappearing from sight.
John
I say this with a bike that has very good cantilever brakes (XTR) and I still hate setting them up. I will need to get good V-brake replacements soon as they are quickly disappearing from sight.
John
I have 3 current bikes with cantilevers and have had several cantilever equipped bikes in the past. I work on bikes with cantilevers at my co-op regularly and never found them to be all that hard to work on. The ones I have now are Paul’s and they are dead simple to install and adjust. There are a few things that can make life easier with cantilevers, however.
First ditch that stupid “link wire”. Shimano has had a lot of bad ideas over the years but few are as bad as the “link wire”. A traditional traverse cable is easier to adjust and provides for a better brake feel. Yes, I know that the link wire was invented to solve the “problem” of cables slipping and catching on the wheel, leading to death and destruction but, honestly, I’ve never heard or read of anyone that this has really happened to. I suppose it could if you failed to anchor the cable properly but that’s not the fault of the brake. And, if you give yourself enough room on the lever cable...i.e. don’t cut it too short...if it does slip, you’ll still have brakes enough to stop even with only moderate tightening of the cable bolt.
Another thing to help with the brake is to use a wider cable carrier. I use Paul’s Moon Units which are wider than OEM cable carriers and provide better support to the traverse cable.
Finally, I too don’t agree with Saint Brown entirely. His take on mechanical advantage and long pull on the lever may be technically true, but if the brakes are set up to engage sooner, you have a more possible brake feel and are more confident in the brake’s ability to stop the bike.
Honestly, I can’t tell the difference in any of the brakes I own from cantilever to linear to mechanical disc. They all feel the same and stop the bike with equal efficiency.
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That's a good bike, and the brakes will work if set up right. Your pads are probably 20+ years old, get some new ones. If you are really cheap you could try removing the pads and sanding them on a flat surface with 150-220 grit paper. Just knock off enough to get to some "fresh" pad. I would clean the rims with a green scotchbrite and some Dawn, rinse off good. I like these in Black or Dual-
Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977
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I found this video on YouTube that was very helpful:.
I might try setting up the rear brake without the linkwire if I can find the part I'd need in my parts drawer. I've got the front brake adjusted about right, but the rear is still too weak. I figure I don't want my son going over the handlebars, but I understand the front brake has the ability to slow you more than the rear.
I assume I should be able to skid the rear tire on hard pavement when it's set properly?
I might try setting up the rear brake without the linkwire if I can find the part I'd need in my parts drawer. I've got the front brake adjusted about right, but the rear is still too weak. I figure I don't want my son going over the handlebars, but I understand the front brake has the ability to slow you more than the rear.
I assume I should be able to skid the rear tire on hard pavement when it's set properly?
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So I spent an hour on the brakes just now and the front brakes are good. I can't figure out what the problem is with the rear. Even if I have the pads so close as to be touching the rim, I can still squeeze the brake lever all the way down to the point it's touching the handlebar. The cable is sliding back and forth through the housing and I don't see any slack in the cable.
The front brake lever is stopping about 1/2 way between the lever and the handlebar with everything adjusted the way I think it should be. Both sets of brake pads are new BTW.
Would putting on new cable housings make a difference?
I think I might have put a shifter cable in there. I'm going to try a new brake cable and see if that does it.
Update:. Switching to a proper brake cable got rid of enough stretch to keep the lever from pulling all the way down to the handlebar. The rear brake will lock up and skid if enough force is applied. It's still squishier than the front, but much better than it was!
The front brake lever is stopping about 1/2 way between the lever and the handlebar with everything adjusted the way I think it should be. Both sets of brake pads are new BTW.
Would putting on new cable housings make a difference?
I think I might have put a shifter cable in there. I'm going to try a new brake cable and see if that does it.
Update:. Switching to a proper brake cable got rid of enough stretch to keep the lever from pulling all the way down to the handlebar. The rear brake will lock up and skid if enough force is applied. It's still squishier than the front, but much better than it was!
Last edited by mtnbud; 06-16-20 at 09:31 PM.
#21
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If you can squeeze the lever all the way to the grip you should replace the cable and housing with better cable. I would recommend replacing the pads also. Being able to squeeze a mountain lever all the way to the grips indicates that either the inner cable is very stretchable or the housing is very compressible, or both. It could indicate soft pads but I doubt that here, pads harden with age and stop grabbing the rim as well usually. A good lined housing and new inner stainless cable should resolve that. Watch the housing/cable length also, shorter is better. Kool Stop or Mathauser salmon pads work the best IMHO and also work well even when wet.
Sorry, I'll learn to read eventually but I'll leave my response as is even though you addressed most of it. The rear always feels softer than the front due to the cable length.
Sorry, I'll learn to read eventually but I'll leave my response as is even though you addressed most of it. The rear always feels softer than the front due to the cable length.
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Last edited by canopus; 06-16-20 at 09:41 PM.
#22
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.....Would putting on new cable housings make a difference?
I think I might have put a shifter cable in there. I'm going to try a new brake cable and see if that does it.
Update:. Switching to a proper brake cable got rid of enough stretch to keep the lever from pulling all the way down to the handlebar. The rear brake will lock up and skid if enough force is applied. It's still squishier than the front, but much better than it was!
I think I might have put a shifter cable in there. I'm going to try a new brake cable and see if that does it.
Update:. Switching to a proper brake cable got rid of enough stretch to keep the lever from pulling all the way down to the handlebar. The rear brake will lock up and skid if enough force is applied. It's still squishier than the front, but much better than it was!
The rear has a much longer housing (most likely) and will compress proportionately more.
Also, make sure your pads are hitting the rim "square".
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If I had a son with that bike, I'd install a new Deore V-brake in the rear.
In stock (black) for $23: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62996
In stock (black) for $23: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62996
#25
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If I had a son with that bike, I'd install a new Deore V-brake in the rear.
In stock (black) for $23: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62996
In stock (black) for $23: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62996
I have some v brakes I pulled off a trashed Walmart bike my parts drawer. I'd just need to buy the levers.