big chainring 

If my behavior is so offensive, I think by now I would have been called out on it. Generally if I can stick with a group for 10-20 miles then I might get a few words in with a couple riders. But most rides I get in on there isn't much talking. And when I drop off or head home I usually get a couple "good ride"s. So whatever you guys are talking about, I haven't experienced. I like to think there is a sporting class of cyclist that excepts other fellow riders based on the simple abilities one shows on the bike. Thats why I say a glance at a group and I know their abilities and if I want to attach onto the group or not.

upthywazzoo 

What do you do when they stop to deliver a package?

AlgarveCycling

Many years ago in South Africa, we had a local circuit that was a free-for-all and it was - and still is I believe - for anyone to jump in and out of at any time and groups would form. If you could hang in, no problem, if you could work, great. It is much as you describe and there is a Youtube Vlog of Willie Smit, SA Pro doing just that on a circuit near his home town. Great training. If this is how your circuit operates then have at it and enjoy!

Outside of that specific circuit however, if anyone drafted and was unwelcome then they were simply dropped - if a weaker rider needs the draft, it really isn't hard to jump clear and create a gap they can't get across. Naturally, this would be more difficult if an equally strong or stronger rider wanted to draft uninvited but there is an etiquette that ought to be followed in those situations and this means asking if you can join first if not invited by a group out on a ride that they have organised. I too love to train with stronger riders but I wouldn't want to get in the way of their training when weaker riders would be unwelcome for whatever reason.

genejockey 

All this seems to boil down to it may be local etiquette where the OP rides to wheelsuck, but don't do it anywhere else, or people will blow snot rockets at you. Regions differ - when I moved to CA from NY, I discovered that telling somebody "You're full of crap" in the course of a friendly discussion was taken far more seriously, and some folks actually get offended! It would surprise me a bit if etiquette even on Sheridan Drive encouraged riders to grab a wheel and never take a pull. Even if only for 30 seconds with an apologetic, "Sorry, guys, that's all I can manage today!"

WRT what's safe? Define safe. I've seen a fast group ride that never has problems almost get taken down by some clown who came up alongside and tried to cut in, so even the safety of the best behaved group is subject to change without notice. So, "What's a safe distance" is a question that has no one answer. Sometimes it's in inches, sometimes it's in feet, sometimes it's in bike lengths. But in any case you need the wheelsuckEE to know you're there, or it's not safe at all.

WRT sitting on being good training, I'd say it's good training for sitting on. If it were me, I'd take pulls even if it blew me up, because then I'd be training to take pulls. And much as I hate the prevailing headwind on the Northbound part of my rides, fighting it does make me stronger.

genejockey 

You run into the back of the truck, or course.

Sy Reene

Well that's a shame.. you came that close to an unassisted century and then caved in?

upthywazzoo 

Sometimes when you're trying to get up to the leading group, holding onto a sticky package from the UPS truck can really help you out.

That sounds wrong.

genejockey 

Well, to be fair, the distance I sat on was shorter than the distance I rode to and from the start/finish, so in total I did an unassisted century. Right?

spelger

how close do you follow? don't you worry about him slamming on the brakes? we are only supposed to do stupid things when we are younger and invincible. (no offense, saying in jest!)

-scott

AlgarveCycling

I used to draft trucks a lot in my wayward youth. We would often catch the big sugarcane rigs joining the highway and slip those upwards of 65mph! Then one day we dropped off and seconds later the rig trailer bounced as it slowed for something...literally back wheels off the ground for a second or two...we would've been squished on the back of that if we had stayed a little longer. No way would we have braked as fast. Never again! I ride with some younger guys now and I've warned them but they have a go anyway...I just shake my head and watch them go.

eduskator

Probably just better stats to show off on Strava

+1. Often a cyclist will get behind me and stay there for a while. I am not the type to stop during a ride, but I'm sure one day I'll have to & might get rear ended by the person behind. I wouldn't find it funny at all. Roads are and will always be full of jackasses driving vehicles (motorized or not...).

nomadmax 

I'd bunny hop a tree branch or pothole and feed it to you.

noodle soup

I slow down, and pull around. UPS drivers are very safe, and don't make sudden stops because they don't want their load to shift.

The size of a UPS truck allows you to draft from 20'-30' back.

noodle soup

+1

If the wheelsucker doesn't ask before hopping on, he's going to have a rough ride.

DrIsotope

You don't have to get that close to them-- at ~30ft you're fully in the pocket. And they don't brake for anything except red lights, so no worries of them stopping. Same for cement mixers. The local roads have both in massive numbers, year round.

The biggest concern getting within a football field of a gravel truck is the same as when driving a car-- stuff coming off of the uncovered loads.

noodle soup

Uncovered loads? Is that legal in CA?

Bah Humbug

If you're so convinced you're right that you're going to disregard the chorus telling you you're wrong, why did you ask?

nomadmax 

And there ^^^^^ is the best post of the thread!

Bob Ross

With riders I know and trust, it's usually between 3" and 12".
With riders I don't know, it starts out around 18" - 24", and then if I learn to trust them over the course of the ride, goes down from there.
With riders I don't trust and can't convince myself I ever will, it hangs out around 24" - 36" ...until I find an opportunity to leave the ride.

Iride01 

As far as any cyclist getting on the wheel of another cyclist, I don't mind. It's nice when you tell me you are there. However only one person has done that in the last 10 years.

As for me getting on the wheel of others. I sometimes have to and I'll tell them I'm there. What else should I do when overtaking another coming up on a blind curve or other section where oncoming traffic can't be seen? Or for areas that might have other oncoming traffic further ahead of you.

So please, don't slam your brakes on if I have to stay behind you for those times. I can't stay 20 or 30 feet back and then pass safely on some of the straight-a-ways after some of our blind curves. So be a little less paranoid that I'm going to run into you.

My son and I routinely ride inches off each others wheel and haven't crashed into each other yet. The lead person should be predictable and communicate.

big chainring 

OMG, an actual answer. And it makes sense. Thank you.

Bah Humbug

Stay a safe distance back until it’s clear to pass. Act like it’s a matter of safety. What if I stab the brakes because of a hazard? Your life is worth more than being closer for that period of time, right? Don’t be a tailgating *******.

Bah Humbug

OMG, you get one person agreeing with you and you’re happy. That makes sense. Thank you... for making it transparent that you were just looking for affirmation.

upthywazzoo 

So what are your thoughts on drafting vehicles?

Bah Humbug

I don’t do it. Do you think I’m dumb? I value my life and ability to walk.

Did you really think that was going to be your Matlock moment?