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'[New Mexico] House passes legislation to enhance bicycle safety'

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'[New Mexico] House passes legislation to enhance bicycle safety'

Old 02-23-19, 12:10 PM
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Arthur Peabody
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'[New Mexico] House passes legislation to enhance bicycle safety'

'Drivers in New Mexico would have to stay at least 5 feet away as they pass bicyclists on the road under legislation that passed the state House late Friday. '
https://www.abqjournal.com/1284191/h...ke-safety.html It confused the Republicans, unsurprisingly.
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Old 02-23-19, 12:50 PM
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Nice idea but how to enforce it? Most drivers give me five feet already and the ones who don't obviously don't care what the law is.
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Old 02-23-19, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Nice idea but how to enforce it? Most drivers give me five feet already and the ones who don't obviously don't care what the law is.
It is easy enough to attach a system to a police bicycle (laser or sonic range finder with data system) just like laser speeding systems. One cop on bicycle and one cop ahead to pull over offenders.
https://www.dutchreach.org/close-pas...bility-letter/
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Old 02-23-19, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
It is easy enough to attach a system to a police bicycle (laser or sonic range finder with data system) just like laser speeding systems. One cop on bicycle and one cop ahead to pull over offenders.
https://www.dutchreach.org/close-pas...bility-letter/
Hmmm .... yeah, but No.

Two cops tied up all day ... and suppose not one cyclist goes by?

Look, if a cop is on hand to witness an unsafe pass, his/her word is enough ... court testimony from a cop carries a good bit of weight. And mostly, if there is a cop around, drivers are extra-cautious anyway.

The "enforcement" question is more for the 99.999 % of the time when there is no cop around. Look, the 3-foot rule would be more than adequate---if all motorists observed it. The ones who ignore three would ignore five, I posit.

I am not against the law, but i don't see where it will change much.
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Old 02-23-19, 03:32 PM
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The key point about safe passing laws is that, if you're hit, the driver has broken the law. This may be little consolation, but it will save at least some arguments usually used by drivers, esp. the "suicide swerve", since it will be considerably more difficult to persuade judges/juries that such an action took place.
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Old 02-23-19, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Nice idea but how to enforce it?
There'll be no enforcement. NM's cops don't enforce the law but keep people they don't like down. It's symbolic at best. I've been run over and the cops don't care.
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Old 02-23-19, 03:41 PM
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LOL hahahahahahahahahah
Are these idiots for real???
Here's a bid 3 ft 3 ft 3 ft, who else gonna bid bid bid, FOUR ft, 4 ft , 4 ft, gimmie a bid a bid a nuther bid....
FIVE ft, 5 ft, 5 ft, bid bid bid no ... closed.
SOLD another horses A$$
Do they also tell bikes to stay the hell out of the left track??? Nooooooooooooooo
Do we need more STUPID laws?? Noooooooooooooo

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Old 02-23-19, 05:13 PM
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https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/bicycle-safety
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Old 02-24-19, 07:31 AM
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Oftentimes these laws come into play is when a cyclist is buzzed and has video evidence. There are marginal passes of people just not thinking or misjudge distances but there are people who intentionally try to come as close as possible. At least with a law like this if you are struck, there is one more charge that can be applied to a motorist.

We are lucky that the local LEOs around where I live are very friendly with the cycling community. Animal control is also very keen on loose dogs due to some high profile dog incidents.
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Old 02-24-19, 09:54 AM
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Current problem is police enforcement. When people see the police, they behave themselves.

So if the bike police should dress up as regular riders, their ghost-car companions would be able to nab a whole lot of violaters.
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Old 02-24-19, 11:46 AM
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I bike in a city grid most of the time. Cars and cyclists are literally elbow to elbow at relatively slow speeds. I am happy to get passed with ONE foot to spare, much less three or five and would not want motorists ticketed for such anyway. I often split lanes with less than 3-feet on BOTH sides of me. So it's hard to hold motorists to a different standard, although it is a rare moment in the city when any car is passing me anyway. Just don't hit me and I'm good!

On the open road where cars are driving 50+ mph? Yeah, I would like a couple of feet for margin of error. But I quit cycling those places so it is no longer an issue for me.
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Old 02-24-19, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Current problem is police enforcement. When people see the police, they behave themselves. So if the bike police should dress up as regular riders, their ghost-car companions would be able to nab a whole lot of violaters.
Yes, laws without enforcement are useless, or worse.

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...r-else/308339/
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Old 02-24-19, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by atbman View Post
The key point about safe passing laws is that, if you're hit, the driver has broken the law. This may be little consolation, but it will save at least some arguments usually used by drivers, esp. the "suicide swerve", since it will be considerably more difficult to persuade judges/juries that such an action took place.
Correct, in many U.S. states law/regulation-breaking can be evidence of negligence in civil trials (under a "negligence per se" theory).

I googled the wiki and it says there is a trend against using this theory, however.
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Old 02-24-19, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody View Post
https://www.abqjournal.com/1284191/h...ke-safety.html It confused the Republicans, unsurprisingly.
Silly bike safety snowflake alert.
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Old 02-24-19, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Hmmm .... yeah, but No.

Two cops tied up all day ... and suppose not one cyclist goes by?

Look, if a cop is on hand to witness an unsafe pass, his/her word is enough ... court testimony from a cop carries a good bit of weight. And mostly, if there is a cop around, drivers are extra-cautious anyway.

The "enforcement" question is more for the 99.999 % of the time when there is no cop around. Look, the 3-foot rule would be more than adequate---if all motorists observed it. The ones who ignore three would ignore five, I posit.

I am not against the law, but i don't see where it will change much.
It is really BS when you respond to post without even looking at the links provided in the post you are responding too. You are not all knowing. If you had read the link, you would know one cop on a bicycle equipped with the measuring device for distance evidence and video. And the enforcement has been in use for several years.
https://www.dutchreach.org/close-pas...bility-letter/
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Last edited by CB HI; 02-25-19 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 02-24-19, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Yes, laws without enforcement are useless, or worse.

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...r-else/308339/
Wearing the uniform was likely for the news photo shot. If not, since 2015 one would hope the cops learned to go undercover on the bicycle and have a uniformed officer in patrol car to do the stop. Even without the second cop, there is recorded distance and video of the vehicle and plate #.
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Old 02-25-19, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
It is really BS when you respond to post without even looking at the links provided in the post you are responding too. You are not all knowing. If you had read the link, you would know one cop in on a bicycle equipped with the measuring device for distance evidence and video. And the enforcement has been in use for several years.
https://www.dutchreach.org/close-pas...bility-letter/
I suggest you learn to read and comprehend. (Emphasis added in following quote

Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
It is easy enough to attach a system to a police bicycle (laser or sonic range finder with data system) just like laser speeding systems. One cop on bicycle and one cop ahead to pull over offenders.
One plus One equaled Two when I want to school. Maybe where you went, 2+2=5?

Sorry if it offends you when I respond to what posters actually post. In your case,... should I make an exception and only respond to stuff you didn't say?

(Tip: if you don’t want people to reply to your words, don’t use words. If your words and your link don’t have the same meaning, fix whichever needs to be fixed. Getting upset because people responded to What You Actually Typed instead of your intended meaning, which you never expressed, shows a lot of issues in need of address.)

In any case .... maybe You, instead of trying to one-up my on the internet, should actually try to understand the ideas being expressed.

For instance, when I said,
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Look, if a cop is on hand to witness an unsafe pass, his/her word is enough ... court testimony from a cop carries a good bit of weight. And mostly, if there is a cop around, drivers are extra-cautious anyway.

The "enforcement" question is more for the 99.999 % of the time when there is no cop around
what was it that was unclear about that to you? One cop, three cops … if they don’t happen to be there when the offense happens …. How can they enforce the rule?
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Old 02-25-19, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Yes, laws without enforcement are useless, or worse.
Of course. How much enforcement? In my city, riding the Light Rail system requires fare purchased through a variety of means, including Smartphone accounts. Some riders complain constantly about the lack of enforcement in checking fares. Not true. Fares are checked fairly regularly, and the point isn't to keep every train in the station for 10 minutes while every passengers fare is checked! You would cripple the system doing that, it would move no one anywhere, and then the complaints would really begin. When our city began their 'Vision Zero' campaign (Zero pedestrian deaths by 20/20) they indeed had plainclothes pedestrians jaywalking to see if motorists would yield. Those who did not would be ticketed. This was RANDOM. It had to be. There aren't the resources to have more than a few stings going on at any one time. For something like bicycle passing distance though you have to have the acculturation in the target population. Maleochs is quite right, those drivers who are already passing cyclists with generous margins don't need to be told to do it. Those who don't won't be convinced until they kill someone and go to prison. Make sure that prison happens, no exceptions. There is your enforcement. After the fact. Yes it would suck to be the person that makes that driver see the light but, as I understand it, there are compensations. All the virgins you can handle (up to a limit of 72 don't be greedy) are waiting in Heaven if you are killed doing the good work of Motorist Enlightenment.
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Old 02-25-19, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Nice idea but how to enforce it? Most drivers give me five feet already and the ones who don't obviously don't care what the law is.
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
It is easy enough to attach a system to a police bicycle (laser or sonic range finder with data system) just like laser speeding systems. One cop on bicycle and one cop ahead to pull over offenders.
https://www.dutchreach.org/close-pas...bility-letter/
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Hmmm .... yeah, but No.

Two cops tied up all day ... and suppose not one cyclist goes by?
...
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
It is really BS when you respond to post without even looking at the links provided in the post you are responding too. You are not all knowing. If you had read the link, you would know one cop on a bicycle equipped with the measuring device for distance evidence and video. And the enforcement has been in use for several years.
https://www.dutchreach.org/close-pas...bility-letter/
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I suggest you learn to read and comprehend. (Emphasis added in following quote



One plus One equaled Two when I want to school. Maybe where you went, 2+2=5?

Sorry if it offends you when I respond to what posters actually post. In your case,... should I make an exception and only respond to stuff you didn't say?

(Tip: if you don’t want people to reply to your words, don’t use words. If your words and your link don’t have the same meaning, fix whichever needs to be fixed. Getting upset because people responded to What You Actually Typed instead of your intended meaning, which you never expressed, shows a lot of issues in need of address.)

In any case .... maybe You, instead of trying to one-up my on the internet, should actually try to understand the ideas being expressed.

For instance, when I said, what was it that was unclear about that to you? One cop, three cops … if they don’t happen to be there when the offense happens …. How can they enforce the rule?
Do you even read your own post in the context of what they are responding too in the flow of the discussion? You seem to just lash out completely out of context.
I made it clear it is best with two cops for the enforcement, One cop on bicycle and one cop ahead to pull over offenders.
You made it clear that you did not read the post with any comprehension with, Two cops tied up all day ... and suppose not one cyclist goes by?
I tried to help your comprehension out by reminding you that I posted one cop was on a bicycle.
Then you simply try to insult with your out of context post for the entire responses.
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Old 02-25-19, 01:24 PM
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There is little need for sophisticated equipment. Most traffic laws are civil. Civil court is based on preponderance of evidence. In front of a judge, if a cop says you're traveling too close and not giving adequate distance and you argue the opposite....the cop's word holds more weight. Congratulation, pay your tax.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Hmmm .... yeah, but No.

Two cops tied up all day ... and suppose not one cyclist goes by?

Look, if a cop is on hand to witness an unsafe pass, his/her word is enough ... court testimony from a cop carries a good bit of weight. And mostly, if there is a cop around, drivers are extra-cautious anyway.

The "enforcement" question is more for the 99.999 % of the time when there is no cop around. Look, the 3-foot rule would be more than adequate---if all motorists observed it. The ones who ignore three would ignore five, I posit.

I am not against the law, but i don't see where it will change much.
I could be mistaken, but I believe what CB HI is talking about is similar to a DUI checkpoint, or a "speed trap" where there is one cop with a radar gun and another cop in a car to chase down the speeders.
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Old 02-28-19, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I could be mistaken, but I believe what CB HI is talking about is similar to a DUI checkpoint, or a "speed trap" where there is one cop with a radar gun and another cop in a car to chase down the speeders.
Right. Two cops.
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Old 03-01-19, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Right. Two cops.
And what is wrong with that? There was a time when it was a common practice for cops to travel in pairs. And I'm pretty sure that a DUI checkpoint employs more than just two cops. As do various raids. Do you have the same problem that use of law enforcement personnel? Why do you consider it to be such a waste of manpower to have just two cops trying to catch motorists who fail to give cyclists the 3' or 5' or whatever space when passing us?
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Old 03-02-19, 02:50 AM
  #24  
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Compare the incidence of DUI to close passes of bikes ... compare the harm done. Alcohol is a major contributor to accidents and fatalities ... probably the biggest single factor, anyone who wants to google the NHTSA numbers, can.

if a car gives me two-and-a-half feet and gets a ticket ... to me that is a huge and stupid waste. If the cops have nothing better to do in that town, lay them off and cut taxes.

Almost everyone gives me plenty of room. occasionally a driver will try a dumb move and run out of room, and cut it a little close---two feet or so---but that is understandable.

Only Very rarely do I meet a real butthole who simply won't allow safe space ... and how many police hours would it take to catch one of those in the act? I have not been badly buzzed in several months (Easter morning, in fact) and only twice in the last year that I can recall. How many cops would have to travel how many miles of road to catch that act?

And, as others have said, if someone sees the cop, likely s/he will behave.

There is a three-foot law right now pretty much everywhere in the U.S. Have people been lobbying to have it enforced more tightly? Have any locales made big efforts to enforce it more tightly?

As I said, the law is only as effective as its enforcement, and it would be a very hard law to enforce.

Y'all fight all you want. Until you actually get a program in place, don't bother fighting with me.
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Old 03-03-19, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Compare the incidence of DUI to close passes of bikes ... compare the harm done. Alcohol is a major contributor to accidents and fatalities ... probably the biggest single factor, anyone who wants to google the NHTSA numbers, can."
I could be mistaken, but thanks to DUI checkpoints, and the efforts of groups like MADD, I'm pretty sure that DUI's are actually decreasing.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
if a car gives me two-and-a-half feet and gets a ticket ... to me that is a huge and stupid waste. If the cops have nothing better to do in that town, lay them off and cut taxes.
Two-and-a-half feet is way too close, and those motorists DO need be pulled over and ticketed.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Almost everyone gives me plenty of room. occasionally a driver will try a dumb move and run out of room, and cut it a little close---two feet or so---but that is understandable.
No, it isn't nor is it acceptable. They are NOT supposed initiate a pass unless it is SAFE to do so.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Only Very rarely do I meet a real butthole who simply won't allow safe space ... and how many police hours would it take to catch one of those in the act? I have not been badly buzzed in several months (Easter morning, in fact) and only twice in the last year that I can recall. How many cops would have to travel how many miles of road to catch that act?
A year without being buzzed? That's pretty good. I do not know how many it would take, but if it saves just one life it is worth it.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
And, as others have said, if someone sees the cop, likely s/he will behave.
Hence it being an UNDERCOVER operation, i.e. the cop on the bicycle is NOT in uniform.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
There is a three-foot law right now pretty much everywhere in the U.S. Have people been lobbying to have it enforced more tightly? Have any locales made big efforts to enforce it more tightly?
Sadly, not as many as should be. And as most of us know, the faster the passing vehicle is, or the longer that it is, the MORE space the operator needs to leave between them and us.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
As I said, the law is only as effective as its enforcement, and it would be a very hard law to enforce.
Actually, no it isn't. CB HI has given an excellent way of enforcing it.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Y'all fight all you want. Until you actually get a program in place, don't bother fighting with me.
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