DropBarFan

RE shower caps or helmet covers--don't they let rain water trickle down the neck & under shell? Also helmet covers seem incompatible w/helmet-mount lights. Hoods are not as comfy but seem to work well for heavier rain.

Tourist in MSN

Since helmets do not have a tight seal between your head and the shell, you get some air flow under the rain cover or in this case shower cap. I bought the J&G helmet cover as I noted above, I got the waterproof version because I thought that the breathable version was not really needed. I have been very happy with it.

Sometimes I wear the cover in cold weather to cut down on the wind going thru the vents. In my opinion there are times you want less ventilation, not more.

I also have a Vaude one, but the J&G one fits better on my helmet so I use the J&G more often.

Bike24 - Vaude Helmet Raincover - lemon

Anything other than a hood will have drips down your neck when it is raining. I wear a mountain bike helmet that has a visor in front, my rain cover extends over that visor, so the drips off of the front do not land on my glasses, that is more important to me than drips down my neck.

You are right on the light, in winter I sometimes have a second light on my helmet but I rely on bike mounted lights.

I want to be able to turn my head and see behind, so I do not wear hoods. Also, hood reduces my ability to hear and when I am playing in traffic I want to hear the best I can for safety.

Doug64

These are also the reasons I don't prefer a hood. Some hoods also limit peripheral vision. If it is raining very hard my jacket is usually snugged up, and dripping down the neck has not been an issue; at least I've never noticed it.

Bike Hermit

Anybody use Endura products? I have some of their gear which is a few years old now but is great. As with everything they are constantly changing their products though and the last bib shorts I bought fell apart (the "chamois" padding) so I worry about the current quality.

Ridefreemc

Arc'teryx (expensive though, and doesn't pack small). Also, make sure it is treated with DWR before you leave (that is is you have carried it around for some time in your panniers or actually wearing it because it wears off). Beware though that it is not to be considered a good wind breaker. I find that it can allow a lot of air through, which is great here in Florida. Rode in a few days this year in VERY HEAVY rainfall and dry as ever upon arrival.

My Marmot was not dependable, even after multiple treatments for DWR. Even called the company and followed their directions to a tee.

Bassmanbob

I like the look of these jackets and their rainproof qualities. Is the lack of pit vents a problem in warm weather? I'm in Florida, and I'm concerned about that. Thanks.

arnaguedes

hello, with sun and more than 20ºC normally I sweat, but i'm a little fat now, 85kg, in climbs I open the zips.
you have the gore bike wear oxygen with zips under arms.

dwmckee

Lots of good options and suggestions here. I'll just add to avoid fleece. It is the cheapest of layers, and you get what you pay for. It is bulky, not compressible, does not work as well in wide temp range variances, and is not really all that comfortable either. It seems to hold a lot of humid sweat next to your body and leaves you clammy after riding too.

DropBarFan

I almost never used hoods due to the visibility/hearing issue but last week went for 65 km ride during chilly rain & the hood seemed to help a lot. If one is bundled up well a bit of neck rain trickle is no bother but in a downpour it could be serious esp w/lighter clothing. EVT Safe Zone helmet mirror makes it effortless to constantly scan overtaking traffic w/o turning head much. Many cars now are very quiet so even w/o hood I don't rely on sound much to hear cars. Safe Zone is the bees' knees, all tourists/commuters should use it.

andrewclaus

I second this. It only took me a couple of decades to figure that out.

Tourist in MSN

Fleece is not rain wear and that is what this topic is on. I too would not wear fleece in the rain, but I often wear a fleece vest or fleece jacket under a windbreaker in cold weather. Or fleece stocking cap or fleece ear warmer band on my head. And sometimes I have used fleece gloves. I think it is great stuff when used for insulation in the cold. If you start sweating, you need to remove a layer or two. My last tour I would usually stop 3 or 4 times each morning to take off another layer or two as it warmed up.

dwmckee

Me too! It was only the last few years that I was willing to spend more on other mid-layer items that I finally found out how much more comfortable many of the other materials can be. I spent decades in that fleece crap thinking that was the best it could be...

DropBarFan

I'm not arguing but curious why fleece mid-layer is not good esp for rain if used w/good waterproof shell? Does fleece soak up too much water if rain gets in? Fleece too bulky or too heavy?

andrewclaus

The last, in my opinion--too bulky and heavy for its insulation value. I replaced my two-pound fleece sweater with a Marmot Driclime, just as warm and more versatile in most conditions, less than half the weight and bulk, more durable, only slightly more expensive on average but lower lifetime cost. I used to replace fleece very five years or so, but I'm still using my first Driclime ten years later.

But back to the point of the OP, getting wet under a shell may be one of the conditions I'd rather have a fleece, honestly. No piece of gear is perfect for all conditions. We need to select what works well for what we expect to encounter based on our experience level. I've found the advantages of a fleece are not enough for me to carry one. And not carrying a bulky fleece or laminated rain gear is a large part of what allows me to tour with only two panniers, which drops about five more pounds off the load in rack and pack weight alone.

djb

I ride in temps down to freezing and I cross country ski in the winter--we seem to have completely opposite experiences with fleece, I don't really understand you and a few others dislike of fleece.

My experience with fleece tops (I have had numerous tops, of varying thicknesses) and fleece in general, is that they do in fact work well in a wide temp range, they are comfortable and do not leave you feeling clammy as the moisutre from sweating goes to the outer part of the fleece and with proper ventilation, it dries out during your activity very well with just a slight opening of a jacket or pit zips.

Fleece tops under rain jackets in cold rainy conditions work great for me, I have two fleece tops, one very thin (100 weight?) and another thicker one that I use when colder.

I dunno, for me fleece is an important layering thing, in combination with other layers underneath, it performs splendidly and is so light for the warmth you get from it.

re rain caps, I use shower caps usually because my clear ones can fit over my helmet mounted light, very important to me when I commute on a rainy dark night in a city (for being seen, not to see) so my blinky is still effective.

My jacket fits very well around my neck area, so even in heavy rain, drips down the back of my neck have not been an issue (especially in cold when I have a long sleeve high necked underlayer-wool or polypro, followed by a fleece with a nice zip up neck area). Even in warm weather with only a cycling jersey under my jacket, due to the well fitting neck, water down the back of my neck has never been an issue.

this touches on fit--seeing a jacket on the internet is never going to be the same as actually trying it on. You can read all you want about how good a jacket is, it may fit Joe Blow perfectly here on BF, but you may try it on and its loose here, too tight there, too long here, too short here.....etc etc...same with rain pants, you gotta try them on yourself and try on many diff rain gear options to see which ones fit you best and therefore will work better just from the fit standpoint--and this is not even touching on how the darn things work for rain protection, fabric wise etc.

I'll also mention the dishwashing glove trick, in really crappy cold rain, dishwashing gloves and some inner thin gloves can and will save you from having freezing hands on a really poopy cold day in the rain. Riding for 30 mins or an hour in cold rain is one thing, but if you are out all day or for hours and hours in cold temps and rain, it may look goofy but it can save your arse, well, your hands actually...

dwmckee

Honestly, I had no problem with fleece until I tried other solutions like the Arcteryx Atom mid layer with synthetic insulation and other well thought out ventilation and moisture management features. Then I realized how much more comfortable other well designed garments can be. Have you tried anything else to compare? Fleece constructed garments have few real integrated heat and moisture management features other than draw cords and maybe a zipper. Other higher end garments have 4, 5 even 6 different shell and insulating materials used, special construction techniques, special cuffs, collars, etc. all designed to be a giant improvement over basic fleece. And these features really work to make a giant leap in comfort and versatility though often at increase in cost over fleece.

If you have not yet tried one of these better garments, I think you will just have to so you can compare the difference for yourself.

My atom jacket works extremely well from 20 to 60 degrees with just a shift of the zipper position. No changes of layers, no tuning of the layer to temp range, etc. I live in very hilly country and go back and forth from heavy sweating hill climbs to ear freezing screaming descents. I never even put my foot down to adjust from one to the other. I just move the zipper a couple inches and flare my elbows a few inches to blow out a huge amount of heat and sweat out the vented side panels of my jacket when I crest a big climb and am ready to be comfortable on a long downhill run. The moisture and heat management features are far more advanced than what is available in my old fleece pullovers.

I hope that helps.

djb

interesting stuff. I have no interest in buying socks, shirts or other clothes shopping, but do like looking at outdoor stuff. Which jacket do you have, there seems to be a whole bunch of atom jackets, so am curious to which model you have.
I dont think Ive tried that stuff, I do have various material of tops and whatnot, so will look around in stores at some point for the jacket you have, or at least other products by these guys.

Basically, I have a whole slew of diff outdoor under stuff, and mix and match layers for a given range of temps, with a shell on top, all zippered and pretty flexible in how you mix it all.
Fleece is always going to loose out with wind going through, I have looked at some neat looking technical jackets for biking (slimmer cut in other words) but have always balked at the price, often $300 sort of prices, where the stuff I have works well enough so just dont have the urge to spend that amount on something I dont really need.

I do know what you mean about newer fabrics, this goes back quite a while, but these Springhill XC pants I have are amazing in how they cut wind, are slightly stretchy, and are amazing for riding in cold weather (under 10c lets say to freezing, at around 0c I add an underlayer of long underwear type stuff).

so yes, I can see that things have made big strides in materials. Again, what is teh model of your jacket? Will try to check it out sometime, not sure if this brnad sells here, but then Ive never really paid attention to the name, so who knows.

dwmckee

I have the Arcteryx Atom LT without hood. The AR is a heavier coat. (I actually have 3 of the LT coats.) I pretty much wear one constantly fall through spring and really get my moneys worth out of them. I wear it to work, at the office, when riding (I have one set aside for that), and am wearing one right now around the house which is about 65 degrees inside. Extremely versatile, comfortable and great for a wide range of temps. When I used to wear fleece I always could not wait to get it off and if I started comfortable and did some light exercise I found I overheated quickly and I got sweaty and wanted to find a way to cool off soon, but could never seen to get it to ventilate well. The Atom jacket made me retire the fleece. I bought two of mine on ebay, each for around $150 - $175, but you have to bide your time to get a deal as they retail for about a hundred bucks over that. I bought my other one at spring closeout sale at REI for $125 or so, which was a great deal.

Here are some omments I made in another post: The Arcteryx Atom LT is an outstanding coat. I have 3 of them actually and I bought a fourth for my son who was always stealing one of mine. I have my brother in law wearing one now too. It is extremely light and packable and dumps huge amounts of excess heat and sweat from the vented side panels when you need to cool off. It has a very wide temp range (unlike fleece) and is easily adjustable. Nylon sleeve liners make it easy to layer over other things. Here is my earlier post on it from this thread:

Wow, looks like one of everything on here! Here is my mix: Long sleeve poly undershirt; Arc'Teryx Atom mid layer; Showers Pass Elite 2.0 wind shell. The inner and outer layers are pretty standard and many products I have tried do well, but the incredible piece that I find to be magic is the Arc'Teryx Atom mid layer.https://www.backcountry.com/arcteryx-...ed-jacket-mens This is an extremely flexible mid layer that is REALLY light, warm, packable, breathable, and extremely comfortable. Nylon inside and out means it slides over or under anything easily and does not bunch up like fleece. It is very usable from 15 degrees as a mid layer to 65 degrees by itself. It is water repellent too if worn alone. It does not look like a bike-specific jacket so it is turning into something I wear almost daily. I wear it to work, I wear it around the office when it is a little cool, I wear it biking in any weather below 70 degrees. It seems to regulate for a wide range of temperatures without needing to make adjustments and ventilates extremely well when you are working hard, yet when you stop and make a decent you are not wet and clammy inside. It is wonderful! Outer and inner layers are pretty easy to find something that works, but the Atom mid-layer is a real versatile gem which I have found to be better than anything else I have used. The versatility of it also makes it easier to shell out the bucks for it because I wear it so often. It also washes very easily and comes out still looking new (not ratty like fleece gets after you wear it for a while). A size large can compress into the size of a 12 oz. coke can too so it has become a standard piece of my summer touring gear too. And I agree with the poster above who said the Showers Pass is not worth the money. It is a great jacket.

dwmckee

If you search the forum for Arcteryx Atom LT you will find a slew of positive comments on it (even besides mine!) It is definitely one of those things that are worth the extra money for me.

DropBarFan

Arcteryx Atom LT looks great & has nice reviews for skiing, biking etc. Just makes sense to have a good mid-layer to go w/the rain shell vs just grabbing base layers, sweaters or even (gasp) sweatshirts. I see an Atom on closeout for $150 & am really tempted. Obviously good for cold weather; in 7°-10°+ (45°-50° F) temps I like to use shorts if possible & a good upper mid-layer would help counteract heat loss from legs.

djb

tks for further info, will come down to actually seeing one in a store, trying it on etc to really see how it is and how it fits.
cheers

Bassmanbob

Which Arc'teryx jacket do you have. I was looking at the Alpha AR jacket. It looked like it had maximum rain protection with good ventilation in a light weight package. As you know, here in Florida, I'm not so concerned with low temperatures.

Ridefreemc

The Alpha SL, as it is cool, has pit zips, and the hood fits great under my helmet (the brim keeps the rain from running down your face and into the suit). Also, the zipper and neck area are long and come up past your mouth if you want, and when combined with the hood and brim you keep rain from entering by your face. You know here in Florida it can be like riding through a fire hose spray when it rains and I have been perfectly dry after 40 minutes in the stuff. I have the pants too. BTW - the orange with red color is VERY visible and I wear it on my boat for safety too.

dwmckee

Oh, and one more thing. I have never seen any fleece garments that actually look good on you. I do not think even Katie Perry could make a fleece sweater look good!

nun

I take an ultra light rain shell. The Marmot Mica has a hood, but I only use it in really heavy rain and when there isn't much traffic around because it does limit peripheral vision. I usually just use a shower cap to keep my head dry. A heavier jacket is a waste IMHO as all a rain jacket needs to do is keep the water out. A mid weight insulation layer jacket isn't a rain jacket and shouldn't be used as one. Insulation is another bit of clothing. For that I use a Marmot Catalyst jacket or a combo of mid weight and lightweight long sleeve poly shirts.

I only ride in rain pants when it is cold. In fact I'd say they are more to keep off the cold wind than keep my legs dry. This year I rode a couple of rainy days across Montana and just let my legs get wet and kept my torso dry with the Mica. The REI Crestrail rain pants I carry have a bit of stretch, are a bit soft to the touch and don't really look like rain gear when you have them on so they mainly function as just a pair of off bike long pants, with the added benefit that they are waterproof.