Can you feel the hate?
11-04-20, 01:35 PM
#26
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I think the problem is those slideshows...
https://youtu.be/OkgiuuL0Izw
https://youtu.be/OkgiuuL0Izw
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11-04-20, 05:54 PM
#27
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With more people teleworking and thus not on the road, bicyclists will get a break. My city is very "pro-bike" as long as the bikers have a say in it. With the current political "climate change" and living in my 120 year old house the only way I'll be able to conform to the green new deal is through riding my bike.
11-04-20, 07:40 PM
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I’ve seen articles in local news where drivers have a negative reaction to cyclists wearing Lycra and cycling specific clothing. They understand it’s a discretionary exercise and don’t like sharing a road with such users. They have better reactions and patience levels to people they see using bikes as car alternatives - shopping, commuting, etc... and wearing more normal looking clothing. The bottom line is the typical American motorist hates sharing the road with bikes. Period,
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11-04-20, 08:16 PM
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Always good to show as much respect to drivers as possible when riding, agreeing with all posts stated above and obey the laws of the road, just like I would when driving. I've encountered that many drivers in my community have been respectful to me and share the road without obvious animosity. Maybe cause I'm old and they feel sorry for me ha ha
I see some cyclists that make me cringe who race through intersections, ride along shared pathways at higher speeds than necessary trying to maintain a high average speed, or trying to achieve KOM's or PB's on Strava and these guys are the DB's that give us a bad name.
I see some cyclists that make me cringe who race through intersections, ride along shared pathways at higher speeds than necessary trying to maintain a high average speed, or trying to achieve KOM's or PB's on Strava and these guys are the DB's that give us a bad name.
11-04-20, 08:18 PM
#30
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Yea, I see that stuff too.
Some days (when I think that supplying facts will make a difference), I point them out to people. Others, I know better and just let it go.
Those conversations usually end up with some arsehole saying something to the effect that if they see me, they'll run my arse over.
To which I respond:
1. Many of use have cameras and you will be caught and prosecuted ... if not by the DA, by myself or my survivors in a civil case.
2. Congratulations, you have just provided evidence of intent needed for a criminal charge.
That usually shuts them up.
Some days (when I think that supplying facts will make a difference), I point them out to people. Others, I know better and just let it go.
Those conversations usually end up with some arsehole saying something to the effect that if they see me, they'll run my arse over.
To which I respond:
1. Many of use have cameras and you will be caught and prosecuted ... if not by the DA, by myself or my survivors in a civil case.
2. Congratulations, you have just provided evidence of intent needed for a criminal charge.
That usually shuts them up.
Before a DA prosecutes a case against a driver who kills or injures a cyclist, the police has to investigate the case. Most police departments are either not trained to investigate cases involving vehicle vs. bike cases or, they just don’t care. Then you have to find a DA office willing to do what it takes to successfully prosecute one of these cases. Most DA office will routinely take a pass on these cases. If they file charges they usually file some minor charges or will plea the case to a lesser offense.
If you chose to proceed with a civil case, the driver’s insurance company will pay, but not before they hound you to death hoping to screw you out of a rightful settlement. If you take the case to trial, jury panels are made up of people who harbor anti-cyclist attitudes. So you are screwed. The driver will feel no monetary pain (maybe higher premiums down the line but not much else).
We are screwed either way.
I agree with the OP, the American public’s attitude against cyclists is appalling.
It is dangerous out there...still I chose to ride and take my chances.
Peace out, Be Safe!
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11-05-20, 08:55 AM
#31
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I understand and support your statements, but know this.
Before a DA prosecutes a case against a driver who kills or injures a cyclist, the police has to investigate the case. Most police departments are either not trained to investigate cases involving vehicle vs. bike cases or, they just don’t care. Then you have to find a DA office willing to do what it takes to successfully prosecute one of these cases. Most DA office will routinely take a pass on these cases. If they file charges they usually file some minor charges or will plea the case to a lesser offense.
If you chose to proceed with a civil case, the driver’s insurance company will pay, but not before they hound you to death hoping to screw you out of a rightful settlement. If you take the case to trial, jury panels are made up of people who harbor anti-cyclist attitudes. So you are screwed. The driver will feel no monetary pain (maybe higher premiums down the line but not much else).
We are screwed either way.
I agree with the OP, the American public’s attitude against cyclists is appalling.
It is dangerous out there...still I chose to ride and take my chances.
Peace out, Be Safe!
Before a DA prosecutes a case against a driver who kills or injures a cyclist, the police has to investigate the case. Most police departments are either not trained to investigate cases involving vehicle vs. bike cases or, they just don’t care. Then you have to find a DA office willing to do what it takes to successfully prosecute one of these cases. Most DA office will routinely take a pass on these cases. If they file charges they usually file some minor charges or will plea the case to a lesser offense.
If you chose to proceed with a civil case, the driver’s insurance company will pay, but not before they hound you to death hoping to screw you out of a rightful settlement. If you take the case to trial, jury panels are made up of people who harbor anti-cyclist attitudes. So you are screwed. The driver will feel no monetary pain (maybe higher premiums down the line but not much else).
We are screwed either way.
I agree with the OP, the American public’s attitude against cyclists is appalling.
It is dangerous out there...still I chose to ride and take my chances.
Peace out, Be Safe!
11-05-20, 09:05 AM
#32
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a lot of people are filled with hate and self-righteousness. If there were no cyclists they would hate on something else
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11-05-20, 09:45 AM
#33
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After reading through this thread and thinking back over my experiences on bikes since 1973 or so, I believe that while the possibility of a crash due to negligence is greater than it was in past years (thanks cell phones and texting and automotive infotainment screens!), the animosity from motorists seems LESS than in past years. And I ride in a mix of small city, suburban and rural areas in red state South Carolina, which some would automatically characterize as "anti-bike."
Maybe it helps that much of my riding is either alone or with one or two other cyclists, and we're not blowing through traffic signals and the like. We do tend to single-file it when vehicle overtake, and there does seem to be a lot of motorists slowing, assessing when it is safe to pass, and then giving us at least the 3-foot minimum required by law here if not more clearance as they go by. It helps to do a low wave or some other polite acknowledgement of motorists approaching and passing, because it's the South, you know? It's the same as the tiny, discrete, but still ALWAYS seen and acknowledged lifting of fingers off the steering wheel as cars and trucks pass each other on rural roads around here, and that little bit of acknowledging each other as people and a little greeting goes a long, long way to lubricate interactions on the road.
I HAVE had interactions with motorists who almost did something stupid or dangerous because of mucking about with phones or radios, and in a couple of cases have had words with them. I get the best results when I couch what I say to them in terms of "Please be careful out there, you don't want hurt someone." And generally they don't, usually they look sheepish or embarrassed, and sometimes they even seem to take it in the spirit in which it is given. It helps to be over 50 and to look a little bit grandfatherly.
Maybe it helps that much of my riding is either alone or with one or two other cyclists, and we're not blowing through traffic signals and the like. We do tend to single-file it when vehicle overtake, and there does seem to be a lot of motorists slowing, assessing when it is safe to pass, and then giving us at least the 3-foot minimum required by law here if not more clearance as they go by. It helps to do a low wave or some other polite acknowledgement of motorists approaching and passing, because it's the South, you know? It's the same as the tiny, discrete, but still ALWAYS seen and acknowledged lifting of fingers off the steering wheel as cars and trucks pass each other on rural roads around here, and that little bit of acknowledging each other as people and a little greeting goes a long, long way to lubricate interactions on the road.
I HAVE had interactions with motorists who almost did something stupid or dangerous because of mucking about with phones or radios, and in a couple of cases have had words with them. I get the best results when I couch what I say to them in terms of "Please be careful out there, you don't want hurt someone." And generally they don't, usually they look sheepish or embarrassed, and sometimes they even seem to take it in the spirit in which it is given. It helps to be over 50 and to look a little bit grandfatherly.
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11-05-20, 09:55 AM
#34
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I understand and support your statements, but know this.
Before a DA prosecutes a case against a driver who kills or injures a cyclist, the police has to investigate the case. Most police departments are either not trained to investigate cases involving vehicle vs. bike cases or, they just don’t care. Then you have to find a DA office willing to do what it takes to successfully prosecute one of these cases. Most DA office will routinely take a pass on these cases. If they file charges they usually file some minor charges or will plea the case to a lesser offense.
If you chose to proceed with a civil case, the driver’s insurance company will pay, but not before they hound you to death hoping to screw you out of a rightful settlement. If you take the case to trial, jury panels are made up of people who harbor anti-cyclist attitudes. So you are screwed. The driver will feel no monetary pain (maybe higher premiums down the line but not much else).
We are screwed either way.
I agree with the OP, the American public’s attitude against cyclists is appalling.
It is dangerous out there...still I chose to ride and take my chances.
Peace out, Be Safe!
Before a DA prosecutes a case against a driver who kills or injures a cyclist, the police has to investigate the case. Most police departments are either not trained to investigate cases involving vehicle vs. bike cases or, they just don’t care. Then you have to find a DA office willing to do what it takes to successfully prosecute one of these cases. Most DA office will routinely take a pass on these cases. If they file charges they usually file some minor charges or will plea the case to a lesser offense.
If you chose to proceed with a civil case, the driver’s insurance company will pay, but not before they hound you to death hoping to screw you out of a rightful settlement. If you take the case to trial, jury panels are made up of people who harbor anti-cyclist attitudes. So you are screwed. The driver will feel no monetary pain (maybe higher premiums down the line but not much else).
We are screwed either way.
I agree with the OP, the American public’s attitude against cyclists is appalling.
It is dangerous out there...still I chose to ride and take my chances.
Peace out, Be Safe!
Guy harasses and hits you. You have video evidence. You provide it to the police, there is likely going to be an investigation and a significant risk of prosecution. Offender likely has to hire an attorney to defend themselves, which is not cheap. If it goes to trial, they take the risk of being convicted and sent to jail ... video evidence can be very persuasive.
As you know, if the criminal case is successful, the civil case is pretty much preordained.
But lets say the DA decides not to prosecute. Now there is the civil case. First, there is the danger that insurance will deny the claim ... they'll likely do so if the act itself was intentional. Now the offender is in the position of needing to hire an attorney to defend themselves in a civil trial, and is exposed to all of the damages. Even if they do decide to cover the incident and defend the offender, that does not mean we need to settle. Again, video evidence is very powerful.
So someone exposes themselves to possible jail time, probably huge attorneys fees, and very likely civil penalties. For what?
The point is that even the biggest arsehole doesn't want to go through all that, and by harassing you, they are exposing themselves to all of that. That is food for thought for most any warrior hiding behind an anonymous keyboard.
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11-05-20, 10:03 AM
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You provide it to the police, there is likely going to be an investigation and a significant risk of prosecution.
I think the bottom line is, unless there are some actual DAMAGES that can be documented (not pain and suffering) and proven in court, and lawsuits filed (possibly at your own expense) your chances of having anything positive happening to alleviate your pain as a cyclist are slim to none.
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11-05-20, 10:10 AM
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Having been a bike commuter for many years I've learned that being a jerk is just part of the profile. Dont let it ruin your day. They are the ones that have to live with themselves.
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11-05-20, 10:24 AM
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Yea, but you are missing the point. Look at it from the other perspective:
Guy harasses and hits you. You have video evidence. You provide it to the police, there is likely going to be an investigation and a significant risk of prosecution. Offender likely has to hire an attorney to defend themselves, which is not cheap. If it goes to trial, they take the risk of being convicted and sent to jail ... video evidence can be very persuasive.
Guy harasses and hits you. You have video evidence. You provide it to the police, there is likely going to be an investigation and a significant risk of prosecution. Offender likely has to hire an attorney to defend themselves, which is not cheap. If it goes to trial, they take the risk of being convicted and sent to jail ... video evidence can be very persuasive.
A girl hit my brother in a crosswalk and fled and went home. She didn't even get a ticket. 2 members of my club have been killed by drivers who did not even get cited. Remember when the deputy killed Milt Olin in the bike lane? He didn't even have to take any time off work. People thought he was going to be prosecuted.
What happened to the guy who killed Patentcad? Nothing, I don't think even a citation.
Sorry for the bitter rant.
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11-05-20, 10:42 AM
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Maybe if you had video evidence which showed intent, otherwise prosecution is unlikely, in my opinion. It's been 9 years since the drunk driver killed Jim (I think you knew him) and the guy went home and sobered up and turned himself in 2 days later once the cops showed pieces of his truck on the news. He was given a 2 year sentence and the judge said if he had shown any remorse he wouldn't have given him the 2 years.
A girl hit my brother in a crosswalk and fled and went home. She didn't even get a ticket. 2 members of my club have been killed by drivers who did not even get cited. Remember when the deputy killed Milt Olin in the bike lane? He didn't even have to take any time off work. People thought he was going to be prosecuted.
What happened to the guy who killed Patentcad? Nothing, I don't think even a citation.
Sorry for the bitter rant.
A girl hit my brother in a crosswalk and fled and went home. She didn't even get a ticket. 2 members of my club have been killed by drivers who did not even get cited. Remember when the deputy killed Milt Olin in the bike lane? He didn't even have to take any time off work. People thought he was going to be prosecuted.
What happened to the guy who killed Patentcad? Nothing, I don't think even a citation.
Sorry for the bitter rant.
Yea, I remember Jim. I was at his funeral as were a lot of other people. The guy that hit him had just come from a bar. Jim used to ride with craploads of flashing lights, and he was with friends when it happened. He was also a very careful rider.
The guy hit him, disappeared for 2 days to sober up, then turned himself in, stating that he "thought he hit something." I remember thinking ... if you don't KNOW if you hit something, you were DUI, and if you KNOW you hit something, you committed felony hit and run. There is no way to be innocent in that case. The way the system worked, I am amazed he got two years. I even remember arguing with some of his friends on line who claimed he was a "nice guy."
This is one of the reasons I think that the rules for hit and run should be changed so that the punishment is the SAME is if they offender were DUI when the crash occurred. Anything else encourages people to cut and run, and come back when they are sober. They should NOT be rewarded for destroying evidence.
But yea ... rant away. I am with you. That one still ticks me off.
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11-05-20, 11:48 AM
#39
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Guess i'm lucky.
I don't have a problem with motorists on the road.
I'm almost always on the white line (right-side road edge) or to the right of it.
I never insist on my 'bicycle rights', I believe in The Law of the Jungle - the biggest, toughest creature around usually gets its' way.
35 years, over 100K miles, with no auto related accidents.
I am also of the opinion that anonymous social media comments, usually do not mean much in the real person world.
In short, hate (a strong word) usually only begets hate.
You are welcome to call me naive.
I don't have a problem with motorists on the road.
I'm almost always on the white line (right-side road edge) or to the right of it.
I never insist on my 'bicycle rights', I believe in The Law of the Jungle - the biggest, toughest creature around usually gets its' way.
35 years, over 100K miles, with no auto related accidents.
I am also of the opinion that anonymous social media comments, usually do not mean much in the real person world.
In short, hate (a strong word) usually only begets hate.
You are welcome to call me naive.
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11-05-20, 11:55 AM
#40
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After reading through this thread and thinking back over my experiences on bikes since 1973 or so, I believe that while the possibility of a crash due to negligence is greater than it was in past years (thanks cell phones and texting and automotive infotainment screens!), the animosity from motorists seems LESS than in past years. And I ride in a mix of small city, suburban and rural areas in red state South Carolina, which some would automatically characterize as "anti-bike."
Maybe it helps that much of my riding is either alone or with one or two other cyclists, and we're not blowing through traffic signals and the like. We do tend to single-file it when vehicle overtake, and there does seem to be a lot of motorists slowing, assessing when it is safe to pass, and then giving us at least the 3-foot minimum required by law here if not more clearance as they go by. It helps to do a low wave or some other polite acknowledgement of motorists approaching and passing, because it's the South, you know? It's the same as the tiny, discrete, but still ALWAYS seen and acknowledged lifting of fingers off the steering wheel as cars and trucks pass each other on rural roads around here, and that little bit of acknowledging each other as people and a little greeting goes a long, long way to lubricate interactions on the road.
I HAVE had interactions with motorists who almost did something stupid or dangerous because of mucking about with phones or radios, and in a couple of cases have had words with them. I get the best results when I couch what I say to them in terms of "Please be careful out there, you don't want hurt someone." And generally they don't, usually they look sheepish or embarrassed, and sometimes they even seem to take it in the spirit in which it is given. It helps to be over 50 and to look a little bit grandfatherly.
Maybe it helps that much of my riding is either alone or with one or two other cyclists, and we're not blowing through traffic signals and the like. We do tend to single-file it when vehicle overtake, and there does seem to be a lot of motorists slowing, assessing when it is safe to pass, and then giving us at least the 3-foot minimum required by law here if not more clearance as they go by. It helps to do a low wave or some other polite acknowledgement of motorists approaching and passing, because it's the South, you know? It's the same as the tiny, discrete, but still ALWAYS seen and acknowledged lifting of fingers off the steering wheel as cars and trucks pass each other on rural roads around here, and that little bit of acknowledging each other as people and a little greeting goes a long, long way to lubricate interactions on the road.
I HAVE had interactions with motorists who almost did something stupid or dangerous because of mucking about with phones or radios, and in a couple of cases have had words with them. I get the best results when I couch what I say to them in terms of "Please be careful out there, you don't want hurt someone." And generally they don't, usually they look sheepish or embarrassed, and sometimes they even seem to take it in the spirit in which it is given. It helps to be over 50 and to look a little bit grandfatherly.
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11-05-20, 12:00 PM
#41
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I don't get too much road rage from cars, I present myself as someone who knows the rules and is safe and courteous and will get out of the way as soon as the road widens up... almost everybody picks up on that.
I have jury duty next month! I like being the guy who carries his bike helmet into the court room and understands lawyer voir dire strategies better than most of the folks in the pool. I only got selected once, and but then they cancelled the trial after a settlement so didn't need to actually do jury.
Yeah, it's not just cycling, there are howler monkeys on sites like that who will rage about anything. My favorite one recently - a somewhat famous boutique-liberal-counterculture bike shop offered a discount to anyone who identified as Black, because "reparations". The local news blogger wrote about it and one of the comments was "never heard of that place, and now I'll never go there"... that was chuckle-inducing.
Any time someone posts about bike lanes on Nextdoor or my neighborhood listserve, all the ranters pile on and describe every sin committed by every cyclist they've ever seen. It's just impotent rage. These are the same folks who complain about traffic but won't get out of their cars, and who think people without kids shouldn't have to pay for public schools. F 'em.
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11-05-20, 12:14 PM
#42
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Guess i'm lucky.
I don't have a problem with motorists on the road.
I'm almost always on the white line (right-side road edge) or to the right of it.
I never insist on my 'bicycle rights', I believe in The Law of the Jungle - the biggest, toughest creature around usually gets its' way.
35 years, over 100K miles, with no auto related accidents.
I am also of the opinion that anonymous social media comments, usually do not mean much in the real person world.
In short, hate (a strong word) usually only begets hate.
You are welcome to call me naive.
I don't have a problem with motorists on the road.
I'm almost always on the white line (right-side road edge) or to the right of it.
I never insist on my 'bicycle rights', I believe in The Law of the Jungle - the biggest, toughest creature around usually gets its' way.
35 years, over 100K miles, with no auto related accidents.
I am also of the opinion that anonymous social media comments, usually do not mean much in the real person world.
In short, hate (a strong word) usually only begets hate.
You are welcome to call me naive.
The last several years have been much more mellow, however.
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11-05-20, 01:13 PM
#43
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I gave up road cycling for 25 years due to one incident where the driver deliberately aimed his sedan at me and forced me to crash over a curb. He was traveling in the opposite direction and crossed over the yellow divider line. I did not pose a problem for him in any way. Some people are plain evil and every once in a while we run into one.
Close intentional passes just seem to be the norm in SoCal. Every four or five rides someone insists on buzzing me for no good reason. I am not impeding their path. I choose my routes wisely where I will have the least amount of traffic and a reasonable shoulder.
I gave up street jogging as well due to trash, food and bottles being thrown at me. Now I stick to hiking trails.
Close intentional passes just seem to be the norm in SoCal. Every four or five rides someone insists on buzzing me for no good reason. I am not impeding their path. I choose my routes wisely where I will have the least amount of traffic and a reasonable shoulder.
I gave up street jogging as well due to trash, food and bottles being thrown at me. Now I stick to hiking trails.
11-05-20, 01:22 PM
#44
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@big john
You have to watch out for where you live, sometimes.
Born + raised in the South = never to return.
@CAT7RDR - i also choose routes and times of ride carefully. There are just some roads where a cyclist would be stupid to ride, much less demand their 'equal share' of the road. Hiking trails also pose hazards, as a former USFS Wilderness Ranger, getting an injured hiker or trail runner out to safety is a big deal.
Life is Hazardous, Play at your Own Risk.
You have to watch out for where you live, sometimes.
Born + raised in the South = never to return.
@CAT7RDR - i also choose routes and times of ride carefully. There are just some roads where a cyclist would be stupid to ride, much less demand their 'equal share' of the road. Hiking trails also pose hazards, as a former USFS Wilderness Ranger, getting an injured hiker or trail runner out to safety is a big deal.
Life is Hazardous, Play at your Own Risk.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Last edited by Wildwood; 11-05-20 at 01:46 PM.
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11-05-20, 01:48 PM
#45
Senior Member
Of all the things that drivers hate, pedestrians and cyclists are number 16 and 25. Everything else is other drivers.
https://m.ranker.com/list/things-you...analise.dubner
https://m.ranker.com/list/things-you...analise.dubner
11-05-20, 11:34 PM
#46
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The one accident I was in thankfully I was uninjured and so was my bike but my jersey and gloves got ripped and I wanted to take my bike into the shop to make sure it didn't have any structural damage which they charged me for of course. In total, over a hundred dollars out of my pocket. When I called my insurance company they said it's not covered but they could send me a few bucks. When I spoke with the drivers insurance company, they first asked if I was going to sue, I said no but would like to have my expenses covered. Never heard from them again.
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11-05-20, 11:58 PM
#47
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Yea, but you are missing the point. Look at it from the other perspective:
Guy harasses and hits you. You have video evidence. You provide it to the police, there is likely going to be an investigation and a significant risk of prosecution. Offender likely has to hire an attorney to defend themselves, which is not cheap. If it goes to trial, they take the risk of being convicted and sent to jail ... video evidence can be very persuasive.
As you know, if the criminal case is successful, the civil case is pretty much preordained.
But lets say the DA decides not to prosecute. Now there is the civil case. First, there is the danger that insurance will deny the claim ... they'll likely do so if the act itself was intentional. Now the offender is in the position of needing to hire an attorney to defend themselves in a civil trial, and is exposed to all of the damages. Even if they do decide to cover the incident and defend the offender, that does not mean we need to settle. Again, video evidence is very powerful.
So someone exposes themselves to possible jail time, probably huge attorneys fees, and very likely civil penalties. For what?
The point is that even the biggest arsehole doesn't want to go through all that, and by harassing you, they are exposing themselves to all of that. That is food for thought for most any warrior hiding behind an anonymous keyboard.
Guy harasses and hits you. You have video evidence. You provide it to the police, there is likely going to be an investigation and a significant risk of prosecution. Offender likely has to hire an attorney to defend themselves, which is not cheap. If it goes to trial, they take the risk of being convicted and sent to jail ... video evidence can be very persuasive.
As you know, if the criminal case is successful, the civil case is pretty much preordained.
But lets say the DA decides not to prosecute. Now there is the civil case. First, there is the danger that insurance will deny the claim ... they'll likely do so if the act itself was intentional. Now the offender is in the position of needing to hire an attorney to defend themselves in a civil trial, and is exposed to all of the damages. Even if they do decide to cover the incident and defend the offender, that does not mean we need to settle. Again, video evidence is very powerful.
So someone exposes themselves to possible jail time, probably huge attorneys fees, and very likely civil penalties. For what?
The point is that even the biggest arsehole doesn't want to go through all that, and by harassing you, they are exposing themselves to all of that. That is food for thought for most any warrior hiding behind an anonymous keyboard.
The level of evidence needed to prove an intentional act, in order for the insurance company to deny coverage, is pretty high. It just does not happen very often.
if the case is criminally prosecuted, the threshold to qualify for the services of a public defender are pretty lax. I know of instances where business owners have been represented by public defenders in criminal cases.
The truth of the matter is that in the US there is a great deal of anti-cyclist sentiment. That sentiment translate in a higher than necessary risk to cyclists. Things may eventually improve as present health conditions push more people into cycling. But we are not there yet. In the meantime our best solution is education (of drivers and cyclists) and greater situational awareness.
No one should stop riding a bike. But understanding the risk is important.
The article below is two years old, but the observations are still true.
https://khn.org/news/california-bike...-25-year-high/
11-06-20, 07:35 AM
#48
Procrastinateur supreme
After reading through this thread and thinking back over my experiences on bikes since 1973 or so, I believe that while the possibility of a crash due to negligence is greater than it was in past years (thanks cell phones and texting and automotive infotainment screens!), the animosity from motorists seems LESS than in past years....Maybe it helps that much of my riding is either alone or with one or two other cyclists, and we're not blowing through traffic signals and the like. We do tend to single-file it when vehicle overtake, and there does seem to be a lot of motorists slowing, assessing when it is safe to pass, and then giving us at least the 3-foot minimum required by law here if not more clearance as they go by. It helps to do a low wave or some other polite acknowledgement of motorists approaching and passing, because it's the South, you know? It's the same as the tiny, discrete, but still ALWAYS seen and acknowledged lifting of fingers off the steering wheel as cars and trucks pass each other on rural roads around here, and that little bit of acknowledging each other as people and a little greeting goes a long, long way to lubricate interactions on the road..
You never know when you might need one of these folks to come to your aid or to intervene.
11-06-20, 10:54 AM
#49
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Those are all nice fantasy scenarios, none of which will really work in real life.
The level of evidence needed to prove an intentional act, in order for the insurance company to deny coverage, is pretty high. It just does not happen very often.
if the case is criminally prosecuted, the threshold to qualify for the services of a public defender are pretty lax. I know of instances where business owners have been represented by public defenders in criminal cases.
The truth of the matter is that in the US there is a great deal of anti-cyclist sentiment. That sentiment translate in a higher than necessary risk to cyclists. Things may eventually improve as present health conditions push more people into cycling. But we are not there yet. In the meantime our best solution is education (of drivers and cyclists) and greater situational awareness.
No one should stop riding a bike. But understanding the risk is important.
The article below is two years old, but the observations are still true.
https://khn.org/news/california-bike...-25-year-high/
The level of evidence needed to prove an intentional act, in order for the insurance company to deny coverage, is pretty high. It just does not happen very often.
if the case is criminally prosecuted, the threshold to qualify for the services of a public defender are pretty lax. I know of instances where business owners have been represented by public defenders in criminal cases.
The truth of the matter is that in the US there is a great deal of anti-cyclist sentiment. That sentiment translate in a higher than necessary risk to cyclists. Things may eventually improve as present health conditions push more people into cycling. But we are not there yet. In the meantime our best solution is education (of drivers and cyclists) and greater situational awareness.
No one should stop riding a bike. But understanding the risk is important.
The article below is two years old, but the observations are still true.
https://khn.org/news/california-bike...-25-year-high/
Just out of curiosity ... what IS the threshold to allow someone to qualify for a public defender?
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Proud parent of a happy inner child ...
Proud parent of a happy inner child ...
Last edited by Biker395; 11-06-20 at 11:00 AM.
11-06-20, 11:30 AM
#50
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There is a world of difference between alleged "public threats" directed at cyclists (or any other group) by the numerous wingnuts who comment"/rant on social media sites that are designed to encourage such electronic frothing, and actual physical threats and menacing gestures made in person on the street where actual physical contact is possible.
