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Do women have “Brooks love”?

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Do women have “Brooks love”?

Old 01-24-21, 03:31 PM
  #26  
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Just keep in mind there are other brands of leather saddles, so don’t judge leather by brooks alone
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Old 01-24-21, 04:21 PM
  #27  
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one other point to take into consideration---have the attitude like I had when I got my first one, buy one, try it for a while (but do be sure to do all the adjustment stuff properly to give it a chance, and wear good padded bike shorts) and if in the end its just not working and or you find another that works much better--you'll be able to sell a lightly used Brooks fairly easily.
Heck, Ive bought three of mine used, and one C17 too. I just used judgement looking them over for how much use they'd had (obvious leather look and feel, was everything even and not lopsided, and that adjustment bolt was barely touched.
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Old 01-24-21, 05:43 PM
  #28  
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If you get a Brooks, do NOT mess around with the tension adjustment. Only tweak that after it has been used for a lot of distance.
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Old 01-25-21, 01:38 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by wnylogo

Female rider here. I used to absolutely love my Brooks B17 regular saddle. Rode it for years in total comfort. But, after menopause began, it caused me too much discomfort to continue to use. Without going into too much detail, certain fatty tissue becomes less fatty. Ended up purchasing the WTB Koda saddle, which has been great for me. But, I was determined to try to still use my Brooks. Took a Dremel tool to it and cut a crude oblong hole in the center, then zip tied the skirts to reduce the flair. Worked out well for me, enough that I used it for a long tour.
Same here, I got my wife a Brooks Ti, she used for years and years. But now she rides a saddle with a cutout.
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Old 02-25-21, 02:25 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by djb
one other point to take into consideration---have the attitude like I had when I got my first one, buy one, try it for a while (but do be sure to do all the adjustment stuff properly to give it a chance, and wear good padded bike shorts) and if in the end its just not working and or you find another that works much better--you'll be able to sell a lightly used Brooks fairly easily.
Heck, Ive bought three of mine used, and one C17 too. I just used judgement looking them over for how much use they'd had (obvious leather look and feel, was everything even and not lopsided, and that adjustment bolt was barely touched.

I really want to tryout a Brooks Saddle for touring because I would love to ditch wearing cycling shorts if possible but I haven't been able to get myself to pull the trigger on such an expensive item without knowing for sure that it will workout ($120 to $170). Therefore, I've been thinking of buying a used Brooks or similar leather saddle to test out before another tour. Thanks for the tip on what to look out for in buying a used Brooks saddle.

I've scoured Amazon, CGOAB, and other reviews for the 'female' perspective but I have never really found all that many. Most of the female comments are from someone of larger size and weight. I'm 5'-3" and 107 - 110 lbs and not curvy. For example, when I purchased my current saddle, Selle Italia Women's Gel Diva Superflow, I went to Amazon and read much of the positive female comments. Several comments were from someone of my size and weight which gave me the confidence to make the investment for my road bike. I know it all depends on the sitbone but I figured base on similar size the sitbone can't be all that different or can it? It worked so well that I ended buying the same Selle saddle for my touring bike. The Selle is mostly comfortable and light for touring but I find after 50+ miles or so, I get pretty sore down there. The problem with the Selle saddle is that it tends to wear out and I also have to wear bike shorts when I tour.

If I buy an used Brooks:

1) Should I wear bike shorts when I am breaking it in or will that lead to not getting the shape I need when I'm touring without bike shorts?
2) If my current saddle, the Selle, has cutouts. It is a better idea to buy a Brooks with cutouts as well or go with the standard B17?
3) When I wrote to Brooks to inquire, they recommended a Brooks Cambium C17 for my trip on the Pacific Coast. However, since I didn't have much time to break one in, I simply rode with the Selle saddle which worked out fairly well as long as I wore cycling shorts. In any case, the C17 would also require bike shorts so it defeated the purpose of going to Brooks.
4) Also, the geometry of my touring bike is a converted cyclocross bike so it is not as upright as a typical touring bike which may make a difference to saddle selection.
5) With the Brooks, after 50 miles or so, do you get sore too. Maybe it is just typical with long miles and no saddle will make any difference?

Lastly, I would so love to pick the brain of that rare petite female that has experience with Brooks saddle and loves it and ride without bike shorts!!!

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Old 02-25-21, 04:25 PM
  #31  
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I always wear bike shorts on my Brooks. But I am a guy, can't speak from a womens perspective.

Brooks leather saddles have some leather stain applied at the factory, damp shorts can start to show some of the leather stain. Historically when all bike racers raced on leather saddles, they all wore black shorts, probably for that reason. I bought a "honey" color Brooks, I assumed very little leather stain in it, but my beige shorts started to show a bit of leather stain, so I no longer use those bike shorts.

Cambium is not leather, some say that it breaks in but very very slightly compared to leather, others say it does not break in at all. The Cambium saddles are very different from the leather saddles.
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Old 02-25-21, 04:49 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
...Most of the female comments are from someone of larger size and weight. I'm 5'-3" and 107 - 110 lbs and not curvy....

...Lastly, I would so love to pick the brain of that rare petite female that has experience with Brooks saddle and loves it and ride without bike shorts!!!
Given your size, I really don't think you want to invest in a B17, with or without the cutout. A B17 is a very wide saddle..175mm...given the rather slow rate that the horn narrows down from back to front..your inner-back thighs will be constantly pushing you toward the horn and you'll never be comfortable on it..at least that was my GF's experience. She's 125lbs and very slim framed..sit bones are 108mm, if memory serves. If you're thinking a leather Brooks, you might consider a Swallow..it's pricey, but would probably be a better fit for you.

In a Cambium..I don't think you want a C17 as it mimics the B17 to a large extent and is also very wide at 164mm. You might consider the C15 carved at 140mm wide. It would be considered a wide saddle for my GF, though she finds it very comfortable. The carve out makes it more flexible..if your thighs do hit the side of the horn, they give enough that you don't get pushed forward. Good weatherability doesn't hurt either on a tour.

A C15 carved can be had off amazon for less than $100. Used ones on ebay run pretty much the same(or more) as new-Amazon. If it doesn't work you can sell it for near what you have in it...I'd likely take it as we have multiple bikes..

There may be some breakin with a Cambium. I have a couple(as well as a few B17s)..they seem to feel better with time. I'm not sure if it's breaking in..or I'm breaking in to it..or the adjustments finally hit a sweet spot(I find a s-l-i-g-h-t-l-y nose down attitude is the most comfortable with a Cambium whereas a B17 is typically best slightly nose up).
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Old 02-25-21, 06:47 PM
  #33  
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I think the C17 Cambium is shaped much more like a Brooks Pro, not much like a B17.
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Old 02-25-21, 06:58 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by dmeans2anend
I really want to tryout a Brooks Saddle for touring because I would love to ditch wearing cycling shorts if possible but I haven't been able to get myself to pull the trigger on such an expensive item without knowing for sure that it will workout ($120 to $170). Therefore, I've been thinking of buying a used Brooks or similar leather saddle to test out before another tour. Thanks for the tip on what to look out for in buying a used Brooks saddle.

I've scoured Amazon, CGOAB, and other reviews for the 'female' perspective but I have never really found all that many. Most of the female comments are from someone of larger size and weight. I'm 5'-3" and 107 - 110 lbs and not curvy. For example, when I purchased my current saddle, Selle Italia Women's Gel Diva Superflow, I went to Amazon and read much of the positive female comments. Several comments were from someone of my size and weight which gave me the confidence to make the investment for my road bike. I know it all depends on the sitbone but I figured base on similar size the sitbone can't be all that different or can it? It worked so well that I ended buying the same Selle saddle for my touring bike. The Selle is mostly comfortable and light for touring but I find after 50+ miles or so, I get pretty sore down there. The problem with the Selle saddle is that it tends to wear out and I also have to wear bike shorts when I tour.

If I buy an used Brooks:

1) Should I wear bike shorts when I am breaking it in or will that lead to not getting the shape I need when I'm touring without bike shorts?
2) If my current saddle, the Selle, has cutouts. It is a better idea to buy a Brooks with cutouts as well or go with the standard B17?
3) When I wrote to Brooks to inquire, they recommended a Brooks Cambium C17 for my trip on the Pacific Coast. However, since I didn't have much time to break one in, I simply rode with the Selle saddle which worked out fairly well as long as I wore cycling shorts. In any case, the C17 would also require bike shorts so it defeated the purpose of going to Brooks.
4) Also, the geometry of my touring bike is a converted cyclocross bike so it is not as upright as a typical touring bike which may make a difference to saddle selection.
5) With the Brooks, after 50 miles or so, do you get sore too. Maybe it is just typical with long miles and no saddle will make any difference?

Lastly, I would so love to pick the brain of that rare petite female that has experience with Brooks saddle and loves it and ride without bike shorts!!!
geez, seat things are so tricky, there really arent clear answers.
what I can say is that
1- I personally (and my wife) have always worn padded bike shorts, and while I commute on a leather brooks with regular pants, I'm not doing more than an hour or so total, so it just isnt the same. I can say that from all the touring Ive done, I really do notice the difference with my old ass hardly any padding bike shorts, and my newer better ones, and even more so with the best ones I have. I really can't imagine touring without padded bike shorts, just from the hours sitting on a seat, and there is a real reason that serious cyclists wear them---but I guess this is up to you to try and see.
2--I still havent tried any cutout seats, so unfortunately I have no experience (and it still comes down to personal preference no matter anyway)
3--I have a C17 on my "faster , lighter" bike, and it works fairly well. I do wear my good bike shorts always, but I do find the leather B17s more comfortable for long long days, and day after day riding.
4--I dunno, my cross bike's bars are a bit lower than the seat, and a B17 works fine on it, but I do keep the seat level. I have now had my C17 on this bike now, but the B17 worked well too for years.
5-- soreness.....we come back to the real tricky "no right or same answer" thing here. Again, really good bike shorts with a really good padding and that fit me well make a huge difference. Also though is small fit details, ie seat position, angle, fore aft, bars positions--so many tiny details that can make allllll the difference for arse and whosit and whatsit comforts.

6--on the whosit and whatsit topic....re a B17 width that someone else commented on--I'm a slight guy, and the width works for me fine. I'm over 5'10" and 135, so I'm a skinny dude, and the width works great for me. My wife is shorter than you, not especially curvy , and the B17 width works for her too------but really, there just arent black and white answers here ---but I at least wanted to share our experiences at least for reference.

I would add that for buying used, I really want to emphasis that because I had a fair amount of experience riding Brooks, when in person buying them, I kinda knew what to look for, so that helped. But I guess if the thing is obviously looking new, it should be a low risk.

and I'll just add that the time that I lent my wife my B17, right away she said that it was more comfortable than her other seats that she had ridden on. So for her, it was pretty clear right away. So when I got more B17's that I bought used, I just bequeathed her the one she had borrowed, and she is still happily riding it a few years on now---but again, that worked for her, it might not for you.
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Old 02-26-21, 06:05 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I think the C17 Cambium is shaped much more like a Brooks Pro, not much like a B17.
A few mm here or there..point is..wide vs something in a more common 140mm range..

As with all searches for saddles..often logic is tossed out. All one can do is take a best guess, based on what has or hasn't worked in the past, and try it. My GF went through a dozen saddles before "landing" on the C15 carved.

Last edited by fishboat; 02-26-21 at 08:02 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-26-21, 08:01 AM
  #36  
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Piqued my interest in shapes..fwiw..sorta dancing on the head of a pin
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Old 02-26-21, 08:55 AM
  #37  
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I might be to late but my daughter loves her C17 short. I put my regular C17 on her bike when she comes to visit and she is perfectly happy.
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Old 02-26-21, 08:56 AM
  #38  
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last winter I had my C17 on my winter bike, but this winter I went back to using one of my leather Brooks, the goofy sprung one that I bought used really on a whim mostly on an aesthetic pull, plus I figured I'd use it on a bike one day.
For me , the leather seats have a couple of advantages--over time they do take to our shape, even using padded bike shorts, so there is a comfort / fit thing that is unique because of this, and the depressions that are right where our sit bones are really make the difference.
-and also I've always noticed the "flex" aspect of them, which takes the edge off sharp jolts.

these two things are the main reason that I find my C17 slightly less comfortable than the leather ones, but maybe the cutout versions are slightly better because one would think that there is more "flex" going on.

in the end, I don't mind washing my padded shorts in the shower with me or in a sink when on a trip, and always have a second pair for when the first ones didnt dry properly for the next day.
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Old 02-26-21, 02:30 PM
  #39  
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Hi All ( Tourist in MSN, fishboat, and DJB):

Thank you so much for your comment and clarifications.

Boy, it's good to know that almost everyone wears cycling shorts for Touring as well. I thought I was a newb for having brought my cycling shorts on the Pacific Coast tour and having to clean it every night at camp since I only had two pairs. I'm persnickety about having it clean and fresh for the next day. I did have few times where it was fairly cold and wet and my shorts didn't dry overnight even after rolling it in a towel so I had to pack it sort of damp. I didn't like the thought of moldy mildewie bottoms but I think it was probably more my imagination. ;0) I guess there is no ditching of cycling shorts like I had hoped even with any Brooks saddle for extended touring . C'est La Vie.

I went to YouTube to figure out how to measure my sit bone so I can add to the discussion but I stumbled on probably one of the most thorough and technical videos that I've seen on 'How To Find Your Ideal Saddle' by Oz Cycle. It was quite extensive and it breaks down each factor that impacts saddle selection and the different features in a saddle (10 features!!!). I've read and seen a lot of videos regarding saddle discussion but Oz Cycling is probably the most in depth that I've encountered. It was quite interesting. Rather than posting the information here, I've added a new thread in the General Discussion section on BF so anyone looking to learn more can find it easily. Here is the link if you're interested:

Bike Forum thread on How to Find Ideal Bicycle Saddle by Oz Cycling


fishboat: I appreciate the info on your GF's experience with Brooks. Another data point for me to add to my collection. Per your comment regarding her sit bone of 108 mm and based on what I recently learned on the video from Oz Cycle, you are supposed to add to the sit bone measurement based on the style of riding that one does. So if she rides somewhere between racing position (aggressive) (+10mm) and/or 'sport or endurance position' (a little more upright) (+20mm), then she will want to add about 15 mm to each side of her sit bone width. In other words, add +30mm to the 108 mm sit bone width for a total of about 138mm as an ideal saddle size. I think it is why the Brooks C15 carve of 140mm works for her. Hope I'm explaining it correctly but the video Part 2 goes into much better detail.

Also, I found it quite interestingly that my 'measured' sit bone width was about 145 - 150 mm. I've measured it 5 times. It is a huge difference than your GF even though we are of relatively similar stature and weight. Conclusion: Sit bone width can be quite different among individuals even if you are about the same size (weight and height). Also, the video Part 1 points out flexibility, imperfections or injuries among individuals can impact saddle selection which I had not considered. So my initial instinct of narrowing saddle selection by size and weight of an individual is quite wrong on my part. I guess I just got extremely lucky to have made my first saddle purchase of Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow to have worked so well for me.

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Old 02-26-21, 05:52 PM
  #40  
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Your explanation is fine. One rule of thumb for saddle width is sit bone width plus 20mm. If your sit bone width is120mm, then a 140mm saddle width is some sort of starting point...which is at least better than a random-walk approach.

145-150mm..yikes. Mine is 141mm. Given your size, I'd never have guessed that. In general, women's sit bone width is wider as a population than men's. Cervelo Engineering has a nice writeup on saddle selection:

https://www.cervelo.com/en/the-four-...f-road-saddles

I didn't look at the Oz site, but I assume you're using this method to determine the width. (we use tin foil on a carpeted stairway..works the same)

Sounds like a std B17/C17(/C19?) may be as good a choice to start with as any. I have B17s, a B17-carved (Imperial), C17 carved and C17 std. In terms of comfort (for me) (Most comfortable) B17 Imperial > B17 ~= C17 carved >> C17 (Least comfortable).

Cost may be a concern, though you can easily spend more trying other saddles and failing. At least with Brooks you can resell them at minimal loss.

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Old 02-26-21, 06:36 PM
  #41  
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fishbone:
Your explanation is fine. One rule of thumb for saddle width is sit bone width plus 20mm. If your sit bone width is120mm, then a 140mm saddle width is some sort of starting point...which is at least better than a random-walk approach.

The video goes into much more detail than the standard rule of thumb of 20mm (that you are using). Instead, it takes into consideration the Style of Riding that is done. He breaks it down into 5 categories (time trial, race, endurance, recreational, and casual) which makes a lot of sense to me because of the body position and geometry of the bike. Hence, a touring bike may need something more like +25mm or +30 mm versus a sports bike that needs +20mm. For me, that is one of the dilemma. I know pretty much what I need for a road bike but since I'm new to touring, I am trying to figure it out for my touring bike which is going to be a bit different.

145-150mm..yikes. Mine is 141mm. Given your size, I'd never have guessed that. In general, women's sit bone width is wider as a population than men's. Cervelo Engineering has a nice writeup on saddle selection:

Yeah. I know. I was measured by Specialized about 5 years ago at 147 mm but I was wearing jeans and I thought maybe I got that wrong. So I decided to measure it again. But, boy, I came up with nearly the same number.


I didn't look at the Oz site, but I assume you're using this method to determine the width. (we use tin foil on a carpeted stairway..works the same)

Yup, it is exactly what he recommended.
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Old 02-26-21, 08:19 PM
  #42  
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Mmm, now I'm really curious. I haven't a clue to my measurement, but will look at the videos and or figure out how to do the tinfoil method.

I would say that as a rule, i find touring for me to favour more seated position, and at steady power outputs, and generally less outputs than road riding where we sprint more, are putting out more power which takes weight off our keesters, plus we stand more often too. This is pretty much why my c17 works pretty well on the bike is on now, even with the bars lower than my touring bike.

I think its fair to say that with any seat, really small seat angle changes really can make or break things for discomfort---just another reason why it's important to ride a lot before a bike trip,as long days and day after day riding can and will show up issues that aren't apparent on short rides.
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Old 02-26-21, 09:58 PM
  #43  
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I know a woman who rode PBP on a Brooks, got bloody, took 6 months before she could do anything interesting again. So there's that. There's a reason that in the world of slotted saddles, the women's saddles always have a larger slot. And it's certainly true that the shorter the ride, the less the saddle matters, but this is the Touring forum.

And yeah, padded shorts are a must IMO. And no, they don't have to be clean and dry. After the first hour, they won't be clean and dry anyway. I saw a column yesterday where the author opined that wearing the same underwear for 2 days was disgusting. Like wow that's a pretty low bar for disgust. PCT thru-hikers carry fresh shorts and T-shirts for every day? No. IME one can wear that same shorts for 3 days riding as long as you take them off soon after getting off the bike and they aren't salt-encrusted. All that said, I usually take 1 pair spare shorts, so 2 pair total, 1 pr. hiking shorts, 1 poly undershirt, 1 jersey, 1 LS nylon shirt.
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Old 02-26-21, 10:49 PM
  #44  
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+15, +20, +25, +30 & the Oz thing..It sounds like they break it down into a more exact science than it really is..or ends up being. I don't think your butt liking a saddle is going to be that predictable. While 20/30-somethings doing time trials, triathlons, and dedicated racing is a thing all to itself and excluding the casual once a month 5-10 mile rider whose butt nearly always hurts as every ride is like the first time....the rest of us just ride bikes. And most of that time we ride very much the same. Make a good estimate for how you ride most of the time and jump in. If it happens to be a leather saddle..buy a good condition used one(it should look new). It(you) may or may not need a break-in..for every person that says their breakin period was 500 miles, there's someone else that needed no breakin time at all. Ride the saddle for 50 miles..if it's comfortable, then ride a few more days back to back at 50 miles each..you'll figure it out.

Things can change over time also. I've been riding for 40+ years. Nearly 30 of them were on Concor saddles(140mm wide) and I picked a Concor when they first came out for one great reason (when you're young)..I liked they way they looked. It was comfortable and I never gave it any thought. One spring years ago it just didn't work any more..and the search began for something new. After a half dozen saddles that were "technically" right for me, but in practice weren't, I figured I'd try a Brooks..and my search ended.
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Old 02-26-21, 11:42 PM
  #45  
dmeans2anend
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
. PCT thru-hikers carry fresh shorts and T-shirts for every day? No. IME one can wear that same shorts for 3 days riding as long as you take them off soon after getting off the bike and they aren't salt-encrusted.
I've done extensive backpacking and for whatever reason, I can wear the same underwear for a few days if necessary especially if it is merino wool since it has inherent antimicrobial properties. In which case, I do not feel weird about it. I can wear the outer dirty shorts for weeks and I don't care. It is only what is in direct contact to the skin that worries me. I think for me the difference is that with cycling, you're wearing cycling shorts and there is a huge padding or sponge which can hold "liquid drainage" creating a super effective environment for exponential bacterial growth... (sorry for disgusting you all, but it needs to be said). A good pair of underwear in hiking (like ExOfficio or Smartwool) dries fairly quickly and therefore, doesn't have the additional 'nutrients' for excessive bacterial growth. Just food for thought. Ultimately, everyone's bacterial flora is different and as well as tolerance for it. I know friends that can wear their cycling shorts for hours after a very long ride (50 to 100 miles) and do not have any issues. Then there are those friends, that will develop a rash it seems if they don't take off their shorts immediately after the ride. I personally prefer to be lily fresh if I'm given the option but that's just me. I have never developed any rash or issues from my cycling shorts and hope to never have this problem.

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Old 02-27-21, 12:09 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by fishboat
+15, +20, +25, +30 & the Oz thing..It sounds like they break it down into a more exact science than it really is..or ends up being. I don't think your butt liking a saddle is going to be that predictable.

Things can change over time also. I've been riding for 40+ years. Nearly 30 of them were on Concor saddles(140mm wide) and I picked a Concor when they first came out for one great reason (when you're young)..I liked they way they looked. It was comfortable and I never gave it any thought. One spring years ago it just didn't work any more..and the search began for something new. After a half dozen saddles that were "technically" right for me, but in practice weren't, I figured I'd try a Brooks..and my search ended.
I think if you watch all three of the videos, you'll find out that he in fact confirms exactly what you are saying in that it is not an exact science. You can't simply put 2+2 = 4 because there are a lot more criteria. In fact, he outline as much as 10 other factors. The intent of the adjustments is to guide you closer to where you should be at. It helps to weed out all those other 'saddles' that definitely would never work. In fact, he goes to show how two nearly identical saddles with same measurements, etc can still be quite different when you give it the test ride. Ultimately, it is the test ride that will make the definitive decision sort of like what you are saying as in "jump in" and do the long mileage to see if it will really work.

He also does point out exactly what you are saying in terms of aging, body imperfections, and injuries can all be a factor.

For me, what was interesting is understanding the details behind these decisions. But I'm a geek and I don't mind all the details.

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Old 02-27-21, 08:41 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I know a woman who rode PBP on a Brooks, got bloody, took 6 months before she could do anything interesting again. So there's that. There's a reason that in the world of slotted saddles, the women's saddles always have a larger slot. And it's certainly true that the shorter the ride, the less the saddle matters, but this is the Touring forum.

And yeah, padded shorts are a must IMO. And no, they don't have to be clean and dry. After the first hour, they won't be clean and dry anyway. I saw a column yesterday where the author opined that wearing the same underwear for 2 days was disgusting. Like wow that's a pretty low bar for disgust. PCT thru-hikers carry fresh shorts and T-shirts for every day? No. IME one can wear that same shorts for 3 days riding as long as you take them off soon after getting off the bike and they aren't salt-encrusted. All that said, I usually take 1 pair spare shorts, so 2 pair total, 1 pr. hiking shorts, 1 poly undershirt, 1 jersey, 1 LS nylon shirt.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that a 1200kms endurance event like Paris-Brest-Paris is a whole different kettle of fish, and that I am sure that there are both male and female riders that have had unfortunate undercarriage issues on all kinds of seats doing extreme stuff like that, with beaucoup mucho hours riding?

as for the clean dry thing, to me hiking and riding are very different, due to the very different skin/seat interface issues.
I once gave a talk at a cycling organization here in Montreal way back in the 90s after a France trip I did in the Pyrenees, and I went to a number of other trip conferences by other people, including one by a woman who had ridden across Canada. I always remember her specifically warning other female riders to always wash their bike shorts each day and to get out of them right away, as she had had an unfortunate yeast infection that was extremely annoying.

So while I personally have dangly bits and not lady bits, I can still say from my long touring experience, and from my wifes and good friends lady experience, that I agree with the view that daily washing of padded bike shorts is super important.
To me, the whole skin/pad/seat interface is the big difference compared to hiking. One of the big reasons I like my Brooks saddles is how there is less friction between my bike shorts and the leather. I can micro adjust my butt position and there is less friction or "grabiness" compared to regular seats I've ridden on.

I also found with leather seats that due to the leather "breathing" better than a plastic seat, that I clearly found that I was less "damp" down there in my padded bike shorts. So to me, better "airing out" when riding in hot conditions (of which I've done a lot, whether in France, Canada or other countries) means less time with "damp" skin, which means less chance of my skin being "softer" , which means less chance of abrasion issues that can lead to tiny wounds, which can of course lead to saddle sores, which are basically tiny pimple like things that start small----which leads to the connection to keeping your bike shorts washed each day, so that bacteria and whatnot dont stay there and grow.

hey, I'm not a doctor, but by rigorously following getting out of my bike shorts right away, washing them right away, rinsing them well, drying as best as can (or simply using other spare pair next day and continuing drying as I ride) has meant that I've had only a few cases of saddle sores over the years. The times I have, I actually do associate it with not washing bike shorts and or a slight seat position issue, which lead to a physical abrasion issue, ie rubbing and sensitive skin and then infection.
Also with guys, we sometimes have more hairy bums (sorry, yuck) and can introduce different abrasion issues.

and then we get into the whole skin/man slash lady bits interaction with a given padding in a given bike short. I very much notice the difference from one brand and model of bike shorts to another. When I first got some good padded bike shorts and as I ride a lot, well, regularly anyway, I was able to repeatedly test them back to back to my then existing shorts, and it was clear that on long rides, the better ones meant I was less sore at the end of the day.
To me, this was super clear, so since then, I've stuck with Brand X and Model Y, simply from the "if it aint broken and it works" angle, and its kinda the same with the seats. If I'm going on a bike tour, I'll prefer the leather Brooks.
If it aint broke, dont fix it, and I then know what I'm dealing with and won't have surprises---but yes, it took me years of riding and trying different things to get to this point.

and yes, this is all geeky details, but hey, thats why we come on here, but in the end, every person just has to find what works for them.

PS, I forgot mentioning "chammy cream" use. I tried it years ago, and found that it did help with less friction, so less skin soreness. Over the years though, I have reduced using it, and dont take it on bike trips simply because the better bike shorts and seat combo is good enough that I can forego having one more tube and the weight to bring along, and physically I'm ok riding day after day on tour.
Plus, I ride most days commuting too, so I'm sure this helps condition the 'ol keester.

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Old 02-27-21, 09:04 PM
  #48  
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DJB: Well said. I totally believe in prevention and taking proactive measure to protect the body. A little general hygienic maintenance goes a long way toward keeping good health.

I've stopped using chamois creams (butt butter) as well. However, for touring, I do pack a small tiny plastic ( only 1oz) vial of for contingencies. It is to be used only when all the stars have aligned and that is when 1) it is super hot, 2) I have a super long ride ahead (70+ miles), and lastly, 3) I have huge amount of climbing. In which case, I know I will be sweating buckets, and I use the chamois as added protection against chafing. Just like foot care in hiking. There are 3 factors that cause blisters: 1) heat from activity; 2) friction; and 3) moisture. Take OUT one of the three from the equation and you will not have any problems at all. With riding, you can't take away moisture because you're sweating, you can't take away heat because it environmental and it is body temperature regulation but with chamois butter, you can minimize friction to prevent chafing in the most extreme of situations. On the PC ride, I used it only twice and I still had plenty in the 1oz vial.

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Old 02-28-21, 08:23 AM
  #49  
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on these specific notes, I really did notice that with a leather seat, when we sweat like crazy, what happens is that the leather of the seat actually does get damp, ie there is less moisture that accumulates in the padding. I had read of this characteristic , or benefit, compared to non breathing material seats, and I can really say that I've noticed the difference.

also, I could be wrong, but it seems that the chammy in my more favorite bike shorts seem to "air out" faster than previous ones, maybe its the material, I don't know. Certainly not scientific and mostly anecdotal, but it seems to me that with my seats/shorts combos that there is an improvement over years past in terms of being less wet overall, or at least for faster drying out.

Mind you, everyone is different sweating wise. I think because I'm slim, I don't sweat as much as others who have a higher insulation factor, and I certainly know that compared with some of my riding pals, I tolerate hot riding a lot better than many of them. I'll be sweating a bit, but others are just drenched and red faced and literally dripping, so I realize that this helps me in regard to the whole comfort thing and seat/body interface thats going on--but I really do notice the difference with a leather seat.
I would even say that my body likes riding in hot weather, ye 'ol muscles like it, and when I commute in winter here, I have learned to be very aware of my clothing choices to make sure that I'm not underdressed, just like with XC skiinig, which we do regularly.
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Old 02-28-21, 03:10 PM
  #50  
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I often go for a couple days without washing my shorts but I am in the minority because I wear underwear under my shorts, ExOfficio briefs are very fast drying and have good wicking characteristics. The underwear gets changed daily.

I am quick to put a waterproof rain cover on my saddle before I put on the rain jacket when the rain starts. The saddle gets pampered better than I do.
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