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Can you help me with tires?

Old 01-26-20, 07:15 AM
  #1  
jppe
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Can you help me with tires?

Have you had experience with a road tire thatís easier to install and remove than a Continental? Iím needing 700x25s......or even possibly 28s.

Hereís the situation. Iíve been using Continental 700x25 and 23s for years. Iím very pleased with their durability, grip and how they roll. I have a new set of carbon wheels for my disc road bike. The wheels are tubeless compatible. However for personal reasons I run tubes. Last fall I was riding a supported ride and flatted the rear tire......picked up a radial tire wire that punctured the tire and tube.

It was a really chilly morning with temperatures around 32 degrees. I tried for a long time but was unable to budge the tire bead away from rim sidewall. Thereís a very slight well where the tire bead sits on the rim. When installing the tire the last part of the bead ďpopsĒ into place. Because of the extremely snug fit I wasnít able to move the bead away from the rim sidewall with either my hands or a tire tool. A sag vehicle came along and took me to a mechanic. After some time he was finally able to get the bead moved to the center of the rim but not without a huge struggle. He said it was one of the tightest fits heíd seen. He suggested running much larger tires, like even 32s.

From what Iíve heard from my buddies and others Continentals can run pretty snug. Any suggestions on other tires I might try?

Iíve wondered about carrying a set of pliers with nonmetallic heads with me to see if I could use those to budge the bead but that might be a last resort. A flathead screwdriver might work to budge the bead away from the sidewall but it would need to be plastic. Maybe a filed down tire tool??? Once the bead is budged, it can be moved to the center of the rim by hand to replace the tube.

Any tire recommendations from your experience.
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Old 01-26-20, 07:23 AM
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I've used Bontrager R2s and R3s in 700x32 for the last three years on carbon wheels with no issues.

Check your frame clearance before the 32s. Cheers!
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Old 01-26-20, 08:22 AM
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I have always found Vittoria tires to be an easier install.
But I have yet to buy-in to the fat rim and heavy tubeless trend, so what do I know.
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Old 01-26-20, 08:33 AM
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I think it's the rim, not the tire which makes breaking the bead difficult. There may be some tires that make it easier but the nature of tubeless ready rims is what causes the trouble.
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Old 01-26-20, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
I think it's the rim, not the tire which makes breaking the bead difficult. There may be some tires that make it easier but the nature of tubeless ready rims is what causes the trouble.
This

Possibly a rim designed for tubeless use ?. I’ve purchased 2 sets of tubeless capable wheels recently that have a ledge near the side wall of the rim that the tire sits on when inflated. This ledge essentially changes the interior diameter of the tire and makes for a snug fit. To get the tire off you have to deflate, then pull the tire bead from the opposite side of the wheel using your fingers, pulling the tire into the center of the rim. Then you can get a tire lever under the bead.
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Old 01-26-20, 11:25 AM
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In pretty much the same boat. I have a pair of alloy tubeless ready wheels that I had fitted with come Continental Grand Prix Classics (25mm). I too prefer to use inner tubes. I used them for about a month and then hung them up because it was incredibly difficult to get the tires on and off the rims. In fact I got stranded about ten miles from home one time when I broke two tire levers trying to change a flat.
Anyhow, just yesterday I fitted a pair of 30mm Vittoria Rubino Pros. They were still pretty hard to get on the rims, but much easier than the Continentals. I'm confident that I would be able to change them on the roadside. Of course, this is only relevant if you have the clearance for bigger tires.
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Old 01-26-20, 01:44 PM
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I used to work on a dairy farm as a boy and milking cows produces strong hands. I've not experienced the same level of difficulty as yourself though some tires or rims are more difficult than others. It seems this is the very problem a tire jack was invented to solve.
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Old 01-26-20, 02:39 PM
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I just bought one of those and it works great.
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Old 01-26-20, 02:52 PM
  #9  
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I am jazz guitarist and luthier and my hands are pretty strong for a someone with no muscles, but I have always been able to mount tires by hand. I have had some real difficult ones and right now I have been using Conti GPii 2 4000. I can get by hand but they can be difficult. I suggest mounting them pumping up a few times to maybe 140 psi and then take off and remount. Do it a few times and I bet they will work ok, but a kool stop tire lever is supposed to be the best.
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Old 01-26-20, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by berner View Post
I used to work on a dairy farm as a boy and milking cows produces strong hands. I've not experienced the same level of difficulty as yourself though some tires or rims are more difficult than others. It seems this is the very problem a tire jack was invented to solve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtbT8EOgtKM
I was hoping a tire jack might help, too. I actually have one and it is helpful getting the tire seated once a tube is installed. However once the tire is on the rim, until the tire bead can be moved over the small ridge which creates the depression next to the rim, the tire jack lever wonít fit under the bead.

Stronger hands would be a real asset for sure. A second set of strong hands would also really help.

I messed with the wheel and tire for a good while today. I tried carefully using pliers to budge the bead over the ridge but they really didnít help at all. What did work was using my hands to pull the bead about 1mm away from the rim. Then I took a flat head screwdriver and pried the bead just enough to get it over the ridge. A second set of hands to pull on the tire while using the screwdriver would have really helped. From there I could use a tire tool to move the rest of the bead out of the depressed area and over the ridge to the center. From there a couple of regular tire tools will lift the sidewall over the rim.

I do a lot of long solo rides in remote areas and unless I can come up with a tire solution I just donít think these wheels are the long term answer. They are just way too much trouble.
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Old 01-26-20, 05:17 PM
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A friend has Dura Ace tubeless wheels with tubes and he flatted yesterday and today. What a pain in the ass! The hardest pert is getting the tire back on. Two sets of hands made it go, both times.
With my mountain bike the hardest part is braking the bead loose. Its ridiculous, takes a lot out of me and when I'm at home I use a big screwdriver to pry it loose.
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Old 01-26-20, 06:00 PM
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I myself have not dealt with tubeless but have found that some tire/rim combos are crazy tough.

I had Bontrager rims and Continental GP tires. Tough to remove and install. Once I switched to Velocity rims, the tires were much easier to mount etc.

You might try another tire brand on your rims for easier fit.

Same happened with my MTB. Panaracer/Bontrager combo was killer.....Sun Ryno same tires, was a breeze.

I try to avoid Bontrager when I can.
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Old 01-26-20, 09:46 PM
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Oh my. I built a new wheel using a tubeless ready rim. I used a tubed tire, which was a bit hard to install, but I didn't think much of it. Never flatted it - yet. I'm taking that tire off tomorrow and remounting it, just to see! And maybe we need to use only tubeless on tubeless-ready rims, like it or not. I'll know tomorrow.

I don't know the answer to the OP's question. Problem is that tire models change over the years. I have some old tires that were easy to mount, but they aren't made anymore. I always tried to use rims which had deep wells. This tubeless business is a new hassle in our lives. The rim I used isn't available in a tubed version.
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Old 01-26-20, 10:48 PM
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Another case for tubulars, up to 33mm with light knobbies
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Old 01-27-20, 01:24 AM
  #15  
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In 700x25, check out Continental Grand Prix Classics, the skinwalls. I do use a bead jack to install them like I do with Conti Ultra Sport II. Easier to remove, just regular plastic tire levers. The Ultra Sport II is a good inexpensive tire but a PITA without a bead jack, even worse than the excellent Schwalbe One V-Guards.

The Classics are good looking (real skinwalls, not gumwall or tan colored), durable and smooth running. Not racing tires but good all arounders. I've used them on low profile Araya CTL-370 and Wolber Alpine rims, and Bontrager aero rims.

But that's road bike skinny tires. I haven't had any problem with wire bead Contis for my hybrid. The 700x32 Conti Sport Contact II and 700x42 SpeedRides are no problem.
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Old 01-27-20, 11:15 AM
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Have you tried soapy water? You may get enough migrating under the bead to allow it to slip to center a bit easier. I'm not sure you would want to carry a small bottle of soapy water in your tool kit though.
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Old 01-27-20, 11:48 AM
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After I got the tire off I took a good look at the inside of the rim. The ridge that forms the bead well is pretty tall. I’m. Not sure a different model tire is going to make enough of a difference to make it a lot easier to get a tire off. I think I’ll just buy another set of disc brake wheels and make sure the rims are clincher and NOT tubeless designed. Then just see what I can sell the existing wheels for. They’d actually make really great wheels for someone who’d like to run tubeless .
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Old 01-27-20, 01:18 PM
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Hi jppe. I hope this finds you well and fully recovered.

I had a similar experience with a Gatorskin on our tandem in pouring rain in France a few years back and have never used them since. However, I've used Conti 4000 S II 25s for some time as have many of my riding friends and never had a problem. They have been recently superseded by 5000. Good deals from Probikekit.com.
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Old 01-27-20, 01:20 PM
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Of the big name tire brands, I've found Conti to be the hardest to mount. The Gatorskins the hardest of them all. Michelins, Specialized, and Vittoria are all much easier to mount in my experience.
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Old 01-28-20, 09:04 AM
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I run 25c Gatorskins on my 4 year old, American Classic, tubeless ready, aluminum rims. It's the only tire that I use. I was having the same problem as the OP sine the day I got those wheels, especially with new tires. It got so bad with one set that I ended up taking the wheels and tires to my LBS to see if they could get them mounted. I then watched my mech install both tires, by hand, as easy as if they were being mounted on clincher rims. Then he told me what he did and I followed that advice on the last set of Gatorskins I mounted and damn if it didn't work. The only difference was that I had to use a tire lever to pop the last section of tire on the wheel since my 73 yo hands aren't as strong as his thirty something hands. What he did was to continuously move both sides of the tire toward the center as the tire is being mounted. All I can say is that it worked. If you've already tried that and it doesn't work, your wheels are much more of a PITA than mine.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
I run 25c Gatorskins on my 4 year old, American Classic, tubeless ready, aluminum rims. It's the only tire that I use. I was having the same problem as the OP sine the day I got those wheels, especially with new tires. It got so bad with one set that I ended up taking the wheels and tires to my LBS to see if they could get them mounted. I then watched my mech install both tires, by hand, as easy as if they were being mounted on clincher rims. Then he told me what he did and I followed that advice on the last set of Gatorskins I mounted and damn if it didn't work. The only difference was that I had to use a tire lever to pop the last section of tire on the wheel since my 73 yo hands aren't as strong as his thirty something hands. What he did was to continuously move both sides of the tire toward the center as the tire is being mounted. All I can say is that it worked. If you've already tried that and it doesn't work, your wheels are much more of a PITA than mine.
I used that technique on my tubeless gravel wheels and it works super. Before I got the tires centered I think I busted 2 tubes trying to mount the tires. These road wheels are even worse with the biggest issue getting the tire unseated to get the bead moved to the center of the rim. I just need to go to a regular clincher type of rim. Maybe someone can use these wheels and run them tubeless .
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Old 01-30-20, 08:13 AM
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I swear by the Continentals, any weather. As I aged I wanted a softer ride so I started to use Top Contact II and use 700/32 if you have room, if not 28. They’ve been easier to get on and off. I always thought wider/slower. I’m just slower because I’m, well, getting old. These are nice tires.

If it’s cold, keep the bike inside overnight if you can as well as your spares. Any tire will be a pain in cold weather.

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Old 02-04-20, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
I have always found Vittoria tires to be an easier install.
But I have yet to buy-in to the fat rim and heavy tubeless trend, so what do I know.
I had such a hassle with Continental tires that I went to Vittorias quite a few years ago. Much better. Last year I went to Mavic Ksyrium Elite USTs. Absolutely the best thing I've done for a bike in 40 yrs. of cycling. They are more comfortable, faster and lighter than my Ksyrium clinchers. Not sure why you think tubeless is "fat rim and heavy." I think Road CC or GCN did a good video that showed them to spin up better than clinchers or tubular.
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Old 02-04-20, 10:22 AM
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I carry a Kool Stop tire jack as another poster mentioned earlier. The Continental tires I’ve had are very snug but I find it varies by which wheels they are on. Tubeless compatible rims are always a tight fit and I’m still old school I use tubes. If the rim is a clincher only tire changing is easy. Just my experiences with stubborn tires.
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Old 02-04-20, 10:23 AM
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Try Vittoria Corsa Control. They are a relatively new tire that I love a lot more than the Continentals. It has the same feel of the regular Corsa, but is more puncture proof.
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