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Cyclist Hit

Old 02-14-20, 09:07 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
Several years back I was offered an all-expenses paid work transfer to the Charlotte area. They'd buy my home here, give me another chunk of cash to cover expenses at the Charlotte end. I visited Charlotte a number of times for work and looking at homes/areas. Nice enough area (I was there mostly in late summer and fall). Climate (as I sit here at -7F outside) is certainly milder than Wisconsin.

I declined the move. About 50% of the reason I declined was a nagging feeling I'd die cycling the roads. So much traffic on narrow-no bike-lane roads. Everyone rushing around as they're late due to the traffic. A joke there(as related by a local) was if you're having a slow day you can always grab a lawn chair and watch intersections for one-car accidents(I saw two while there). They're racing (an apparently losing battle) building infrastructure to keep up with population growth and cyclists are not even an afterthought...by the look of it at least. Bike trails (non-MTB) are nearly non-existent..but the taxes are low(er). At the time, I read something online that Montana? and South Carolina were tied for leading the nation in pedestrian deaths due to autos..I think cyclists were lumped into pedestrians.

All my opinions might be incorrect here, but when moving for work there's a limited time to decide what to do and why. I opted to retire early and live in the land of higher taxes, reasonably courteous drivers, bike lanes, and bike trails everywhere...with more being built.
I say good move on your part, and you got the Packers up there too
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Old 02-14-20, 12:04 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
Several years back I was offered an all-expenses paid work transfer to the Charlotte area. They'd buy my home here, give me another chunk of cash to cover expenses at the Charlotte end. I visited Charlotte a number of times for work and looking at homes/areas. Nice enough area (I was there mostly in late summer and fall). Climate (as I sit here at -7F outside) is certainly milder than Wisconsin.

I declined the move. About 50% of the reason I declined was a nagging feeling I'd die cycling the roads. So much traffic on narrow-no bike-lane roads. Everyone rushing around as they're late due to the traffic. A joke there(as related by a local) was if you're having a slow day you can always grab a lawn chair and watch intersections for one-car accidents(I saw two while there). They're racing (an apparently losing battle) building infrastructure to keep up with population growth and cyclists are not even an afterthought...by the look of it at least. Bike trails (non-MTB) are nearly non-existent..but the taxes are low(er). At the time, I read something online that Montana? and South Carolina were tied for leading the nation in pedestrian deaths due to autos..I think cyclists were lumped into pedestrians.

All my opinions might be incorrect here, but when moving for work there's a limited time to decide what to do and why. I opted to retire early and live in the land of higher taxes, reasonably courteous drivers, bike lanes, and bike trails everywhere...with more being built.
Weather is good here and road riding is very popular but also very dangerous close to Charlotte. Good riding if you are willing to drive 45 minutes or so.

and yes rust belters are moving here in droves
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Old 02-14-20, 12:58 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
This is morphing into an A&S thread.
Minus most of the usual Antagonism & Sarcasm that negates the purpose of the A&S fauxrum.
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Old 02-15-20, 11:21 PM
  #29  
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Because of the huge influx of people moving in from up north the streets in Charlotte have become much more dangerous due to the increased traffic congestion and frustrated drivers. They are moving here because our economy has been booming for the last 30 years unabated. The last ten have been totally nuts. I moved out to Scottsdale Arizona in 2011 and back to Charlotte in 2016 and the change was dramatic. The rural areas and farm lands outside of Charlotte are now sub-divisions and shopping centers. Progress, you know....

The riding in and around Charlotte won't get safer over time, it will become more dangerous unless the City and County start cracking down. The Red Light runner situation is abysmal, so is the speeding. Scottsdale by comparison was a bike riders paradise as were all of the roads outside of the Phoenix metro area. The difference is that Phoenix got really serious about enforcing traffic violations. Riders are also required to burn lights after dark. I used to commute to work on my bike and although traffic was relatively heavy, the drivers generally very courteous and watchful of riders.

In Charlotte I have been contemplating going to the city to petition some changes. I know other riding groups and clubs have already. More is needed as can be attested by this young rider up at "The Lake" area north of the city.
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Old 02-16-20, 08:52 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
It's not a question of number of this vs. number of that. It's a question of why, in any given instance, one party should be presumed to have been negligent and have to rebut that presumption. That could actually be unconstitutional in the criminal context. But even in the civil context I think it would be the wrong way to go. Initial burden of proof is on the one claiming negligence on the part of another. And yes, I am well aware of the concept of negligence per se. But even there the complainant must establish things beyond "I was hit by a vehicle so it's the vehicle operator's fault unless he proves otherwise." Careful what you ask for. I am an extremely careful driver and have still almost hit cyclists doing really dumb things. I don't think I should have to bear the burden of proving that I was not at fault unless the cyclist can first offer sufficient evidence that I was. Same for a case involving a pedestrian.

I don't think one party should be presumed to be negligent. I do think all accidents should be investigated to the degree necessary to determine if negligence was a factor. When a cyclist is operating lawfully and is mowed down by someone who "didn't see them," I think that motorist should suffer some consequences. I don't think jail is the correct consequence, but shrugging it off and letting the driver continue to drive is not normally right thing to do in my opinion.
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Old 02-16-20, 02:24 PM
  #31  
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We are now living in the generation of I'm more important than the rules, I can bend the rules to suit me, but not the other way around. Way to many people are distracted while driving their cars. The police do not have the time or resources to investigate every accident. When the police enforce the rules of the road, people complain they should be spend the time and money on other crimes.
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Old 02-16-20, 03:33 PM
  #32  
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As cyclist’s we should conduct risk management for our riding and research roads and drive on roads with 4 wheels first. Figure out better times of the day to ride, etc etc

and even then it’s still very risky
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Old 02-17-20, 07:50 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
As cyclist’s we should conduct risk management for our riding and research roads and drive on roads with 4 wheels first. Figure out better times of the day to ride, etc etc

and even then it’s still very risky
I do this, but like you said, it does have limitations. First, by driving at the speed limit, you don't really encounter traffic from behind as you would on a bike. I reckon you could drive well below the speed limit, but overtaking traffic would not treat you the same as on a bike. Still, by driving the route both directions you could estimate traffic.

Every year I become less comfortable riding rural roads because of rampant flaunting of speed limits as well as the worry about drivers paying attention. The chaos of urban street traffic doesn't phase me though. Go figure.
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Old 02-19-20, 09:15 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Because of the huge influx of people moving in from up north the streets in Charlotte have become much more dangerous due to the increased traffic congestion and frustrated drivers. They are moving here because our economy has been booming for the last 30 years unabated. The last ten have been totally nuts. I moved out to Scottsdale Arizona in 2011 and back to Charlotte in 2016 and the change was dramatic. The rural areas and farm lands outside of Charlotte are now sub-divisions and shopping centers. Progress, you know....

The riding in and around Charlotte won't get safer over time, it will become more dangerous unless the City and County start cracking down. The Red Light runner situation is abysmal, so is th e speeding. Scottsdale by comparison was a bike riders paradise as were all of the roads outside of the Phoenix metro area. The difference is that Phoenix got really serious about enforcing traffic violations. Riders are also required to burn lights after dark. I used to commute to work on my bike and although traffic was relatively heavy, the drivers generally very courteous and watchful of riders.

In Charlotte I have been contemplating going to the city to petition some changes. I know other riding groups and clubs have already. More is needed as can be attested by this young rider up at "The Lake" area north of the city.

A lot of corporations are moving to Charlotte with regional offices/manufacturing or a new corporate office (this was the case with my former company). N.C. is/was offering tax incentives to corporations($28M in our case) to move there. At the time when I was considering the move, it was said to move to Charlotte WITH a job as there were no (few) jobs available for those moving there looking for work...beyond lower pay service work. Housing prices were rebounding ahead of other regions as the demand is high..and prices were rising accordingly. In a number of home-development-areas half of the 1(+) hr commute is spent just getting to the expressway as road access out of neighborhoods gets clogged at rush hour(think..roads that many might like to ride). Charlotte is on track to become a mini-Atlanta. The longest MUP I found in the greater Charlotte area was in the city itself and about a mile long. Compare this to my local-ish area(though I live in the country) of Milwaukee with the 125 mile Oak Leaf Trail System(MUP) that wanders all over the city(through a dozen+ parks/parkways) and near surroundings. This connects to other trails that wander through the state.

As an indication of relative bike-culture, I found the two following maps interesting (same scale). They are national trail maps from Traillink. Naturally, as you zoom in more trails appear.


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Old 02-20-20, 03:52 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by CoffeedrinkerNC View Post
We are now living in the generation of I'm more important than the rules, I can bend the rules to suit me, but not the other way around. Way to many people are distracted while driving their cars. The police do not have the time or resources to investigate every accident. When the police enforce the rules of the road, people complain they should be spend the time and money on other crimes.
Bingo!!! Now pair that with smartphone addiction and the only soundtrack for riding seem to be Guns and Roses "Welcome to the Jungle."

Heavy traffic is one thing, but self-entitlement attitudes and smartphones make it far, far more lethal.

We have always had heavy traffic here, but with the smartphone lookers and GPS finger pokers, it added a big level of manic unpredictability.
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Old 02-25-20, 03:33 AM
  #36  
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I'm a bit of a latecomer to this thread. Sorry in advance for the long rant.

Earlier in the month in Thailand a cyclist died coming down a mountain in the north of Thailand.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-38975578.html

It's the second foreign cycling death here in just over a month. It isn't the roads are treacherous, it's the local drivers who can't drive for toffee and treat other road users with contempt.

As I tell cyclists who come to stay with us:
There are sixty traffic related deaths per day, of which cyclists and motorcyclist make up 80%.

Thailand now generally seen as number one in the world (after three African countries)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate
.
From the wiki link above. Deaths per 100,000 population, per year:
Thailand 32.7
US 12.4
UK 3.1
Norway 2.1

The government here try to massage the figures by only including deaths directly at the scene of the accident. If someone dies in hospital an hour after the accident, they aren't include in the figures.
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Old 02-25-20, 07:15 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post

As an indication of relative bike-culture, I found the two following maps interesting (same scale).
Has a lot to do with the saturation of railroads in the area covered by that first map, highway construction, railroad bankruptcies and the resultant consolidation in the rail industry. The latter resulted a lot more former rights of way that could be turned into trails.

PA is a good example. When Conrail was deeded things like the competing Reading and Penn Central lines along the Schuylkill River from Philadelphia, it no longer needed both. We now have the Schuykill River Trail. The 80+ mile Pine Creek is also the result of a post-Conrail elimination of one of two redundant lines once owned by two competitors The move away from Anthracite Coal also played a role in certain parts of the state, giving us many miles of Lehigh Gorge/D&L Trail.

Last edited by indyfabz; 02-25-20 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 02-25-20, 08:47 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Has a lot to do with the saturation of railroads in the area covered by that first map, highway construction, railroad bankruptcies and the resultant consolidation in the rail industry. The latter resulted a lot more former rights of way that could be turned into trails.

PA is a good example. When Conrail was deeded things like the competing Reading and Penn Central lines along the Schuylkill River from Philadelphia, it no longer needed both. We now have the Schuykill River Trail. The 80+ mile Pine Creek is also the result of a post-Conrail elimination of one of two redundant lines once owned by two competitors The move away from Anthracite Coal also played a role in certain parts of the state, giving us many miles of Lehigh Gorge/D&L Trail.
I don't disagree(and good point), however many bike trails exist without the benefit of a railroad right of way. We have longer trails up here that take advantage of utility right of ways. This may in part be a PR move by utility companies, but it's PR only if the public is interested in such things. The 125 mile Milwaukee County Oak Leaf Trail only has small portions that have a RR origin. As you suggest, it may be a chicken and egg thing, with RR right of ways being a seed, with developing a culture that supports bike trails, bicycle tourism, roads with bike lanes, wide shoulders..etc..

At the end of the day..it sort of is what it is.. bike trails, lanes, right of ways, consciousness in any region, of any origin, exist or they don't.
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