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Alex Singer dumpster find

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Alex Singer dumpster find

Old 04-19-20, 10:41 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by wawine View Post
For some reason, people want to continue to keep telling me it is not built ‘correctly’.
WTF?
Just ignore them, it's your bike and your good fortune to receive it, Doug.
The bike has a wonderful story behind it and man I love that color, The quintessential Singer blue.
Yours is very similar to my own. Campagnolo drop outs, Fender eyelets for example.
Alex Singer by Matthew Pendergast, on Flickr

Best regards
Matt
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Old 04-19-20, 10:42 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
You can bet that if a Singer left the shop with fender eyelets, it was designed and tested to be able to have a fender mounted. The fact that your Raleigh can't mount fenders despite having braze-ons is more of a reflection of bike-boom Raleigh's poor design and quality control. It's a little silly to try to argue that it's good practice to add a fender braze-ons but make it impractical or impossible for the rider to use them.

Check out the pictures posted of the bike. Look at the gap between the fork crown and front tire. Look at the fact that the brake posts are at the bottom of their adjustment to reach the rims. As @repechage already mentioned, the clearances are clearly designed to allow use of a fender. Whether the owner adds the fenders or not is their choice. But to argue that the bike was 100% intended to go fenderless by the builder is clearly wrong considering the frame's features.
one thing that the ‘where are the fenders’ camp has yet to note. This bike was fitted with 700c clinchers, not tubulars or the more common 27” clinchers used in 1976. Angel apparently wanted to try the brand new, HP clinchers on this bike.

As tubulars were used on 99% of racing bikes in this period, the use of the slightly smaller 700c clinchers on this bike will make the larger gap on the front wheel, and lower brake blocks, which seem to be bothersome to some.

when do the ‘switch to tubulars’ posts start?😊
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Old 04-19-20, 11:00 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by northbend View Post
Just ignore them, it's your bike and your good fortune to receive it, Doug.
The bike has a wonderful story behind it and man I love that color, The quintessential Singer blue.
Yours is very similar to my own. Campagnolo drop outs, Fender eyelets for example.
Alex Singer by Matthew Pendergast, on Flickr

Best regards
Matt
thanks Matt.
very similar looking frame. What is the serial number? Another R&E bike, or maybe Spence?
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Old 04-19-20, 11:16 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
...Whether the owner adds the fenders or not is their choice. But to argue that the bike was 100% intended to go fenderless by the builder is clearly wrong considering the frame's features.
No one has argued that. Not Wawine, not me. I CAN put fenders on my Raleigh, even if it is rather poorly designed, especially in comparison to the Singer.

Sure, you can put fenders on this Singer. It's even rather nicely designed to accommodate them. But the current owner of the bike literally raced in the same region as this frame's original owner and actually knew the guy, and knows that fenders were not a popular choice at that time and place except by the necessity of weather.

What is the point you guys are trying to make? If you think the bike would look better with fenders, buy the darn thing and put them on it yourselves.

-Gregory

Last edited by Kilroy1988; 04-19-20 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 04-19-20, 11:17 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by wawine View Post
thanks Matt.
very similar looking frame. What is the serial number? Another R&E bike, or maybe Spence?
Serial Number:

Serial Number by Matthew Pendergast, on Flickr

I bought the frame from Douglas Brooks who said he bought it from the original owners family in Canada.
Jan Heine thought it dates from around 1974 and supposed because of it's origin in Canada that it was probably part of multi frame order from Bloor Cycles in Toronto (based on the serial numbering)

More pictures of it in my Flickr album

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk8mpRG5
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Old 04-19-20, 11:33 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by northbend View Post
Serial Number:

Serial Number by Matthew Pendergast, on Flickr

I bought the frame from Douglas Brooks who said he bought it from the original owners family in Canada.
Jan Heine thought it dates from around 1974 and supposed because of it's origin in Canada that it was probably part of multi frame order from Bloor Cycles in Toronto (based on the serial numbering)

More pictures of it in my Flickr album

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk8mpRG5
this is about 500 frames before mine, and mine is confirmed as 1976. I have some Singer serial numbers I can check yours against.
Thanks
Doug
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Old 04-19-20, 12:11 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by northbend View Post
Serial Number:

Serial Number by Matthew Pendergast, on Flickr

I bought the frame from Douglas Brooks who said he bought it from the original owners family in Canada.
Jan Heine thought it dates from around 1974 and supposed because of it's origin in Canada that it was probably part of multi frame order from Bloor Cycles in Toronto (based on the serial numbering)

More pictures of it in my Flickr album

https://flic.kr/s/aHsk8mpRG5
I have some partial serial numbers, specifically featuring those sent to Spence Wolf. There is a gap in the sequence of a lot sold to him. He had 1412 shipped to him, then 1431 with a bunch before and after these numbers. It would make sense that a series of frames made to North American specifications may be made at the same time and yours fell into this batch. Regrettably, the list I am looking at has no dates.
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Old 04-19-20, 01:05 PM
  #108  
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Old 04-19-20, 01:30 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by wawine View Post
just about every bike ever made with Campagnolo 1010A dropouts at that time, had fender eyelets, as they were part of the forging itself.
Just to be a niggling truthist: The ones with eyelets were mod.1010 (no slash A). If you wanted no eyelets, you didn't have to cut them off, you could just order mod.1010/A, which were forged without eyelets. This is clear from looking at them in the raw, as I have done many times -- 1010/A were clearly made without eyelets to begin with, not made with and subsequently removed.

From Catalog 17, 1974:



I'm not disagreeing with your main thesis though.

Mark B in Seattle
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Old 04-19-20, 02:40 PM
  #110  
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The probable date of this bike was stated to be 1974. At that time, the Campagnolo parts with eyelets were far more common on Production frames, yes.
Singer was not a "production" builder.
If Olivier is 60 today, he would have been 14 when this bike was built, I hope he would still have been in school.
The Raleigh SBDU Team Pros did away with eyelets, the production Pro's kept them. I would consider that a bow to manufacturing efficiency, only one type of part to stock.
The asserting that most race frames of the period had eyelets is not what I viewed back then. There are so many counterexamples.

The bike shows to me as a Road bike, suitable for all day use. Not of a tight clearance design.
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Old 04-19-20, 06:32 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The probable date of this bike was stated to be 1974. At that time, the Campagnolo parts with eyelets were far more common on Production frames, yes.
Singer was not a "production" builder.
If Olivier is 60 today, he would have been 14 when this bike was built, I hope he would still have been in school.
The Raleigh SBDU Team Pros did away with eyelets, the production Pro's kept them. I would consider that a bow to manufacturing efficiency, only one type of part to stock.
The asserting that most race frames of the period had eyelets is not what I viewed back then. There are so many counterexamples.

The bike shows to me as a Road bike, suitable for all day use. Not of a tight clearance design.
OK, this is getting laughable now.
lets forget my 1971 Cinelli and 1971 Masi, which have these same dropouts, and came without fenders as they are clearly large production frames, and focus on this Singer.

the serial number has been confirmed by Olivier as being built in 1976 (not 1974) and sold without fenders, to an ex-employee as a racing bike to be built in the US using Campagnolo components.

you disagree. What possible reason would Olivier have to not be honest about this? Why on earth would he do this? What possible reason would anybody think you know more about this bike, than the folks who brazed it?

is it just possible, that you maybe learned something new here, that a custom builder may have built custom bikes for the American market, which were different than those built for folks in France?

none of us have all the answers here, but I kind of think that the shop may know more about this bike than you do.
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Old 04-19-20, 07:03 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by wawine View Post
OK, this is getting laughable now...

...none of us have all the answers here, but I kind of think that the shop may know more about this bike than you do.
It's like I said earlier. Some people are always right!
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Old 04-19-20, 07:05 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by wawine View Post
OK, this is getting laughable now.

lets forget my 1971 Cinelli and 1971 Masi, which have these same dropouts, and came without fenders as they are clearly large production frames, and focus on this Singer.


the serial number has been confirmed by Olivier as being built in 1976 (not 1974) and sold without fenders, to an ex-employee as a racing bike to be built in the US using Campagnolo components.


you disagree. What possible reason would Olivier have to not be honest about this? Why on earth would he do this? What possible reason would anybody think you know more about this bike, than the folks who brazed it?


is it just possible, that you maybe learned something new here, that a custom builder may have built custom bikes for the American market, which were different than those built for folks in France?


none of us have all the answers here, but I kind of think that the shop may know more about this bike than you do.

You own exceptional bikes. I have 6 Masi bikes dating from mid 1970 onward to 1980, half Italian, half American. ( I am aware of ONE American built bike from the early 80's that DOES have eyelets ) Own only one Cinelli, from 1971. None have eyelets. 4 Colnagos dating from 1968 onward, all of them, no eyelets.

Plenty of bikes that do have eyelets, they are more production oriented. Only 3 French bikes from the 70's that do not have eyelets, I consider them Custom or Team level, 7 others that do have eyelets.

Two other Italian race bikes from the 50's and mid 60's, yep, eyelets and chainstay bridge provision for fenders.


Olivier is I will assume is being as accurate as he can be from the information recorded. Good enough. Gracious of him to provide the information, referencing takes time.

The metalwork of the bike has generous clearance. Does not make it bad, that clearance along with the eyelets allow for easy installation of fenders.

It does make it more versatile.
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Old 04-19-20, 11:37 PM
  #114  
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wawine, the end result looks fantastic. You've done it proud. Ignore the fenderists here if you don't intend to mount any. Custom frames have no rules. End of story.

Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The Raleigh SBDU Team Pros did away with eyelets, the production Pro's kept them.
Not after 1974, they didn't.

I would have hung fenders on my two '75 Pro Mk.IV's by now had they been built with 1010's rather than 1010A's.

-Kurt
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