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Strava Changes

Old 05-21-20, 02:06 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
I've been logging rides on Ride with GPS for a long time - started by using the phone app. When I bought a Garmin device, I was able to fairly quickly and easily enable syncing between my Garmin Connect and Ride with GPS accounts so that the rides are uploaded automatically. At some point I decided to also start uploading rides to Strava, so I fairly quickly and easily enabled syncing between my Ride with GPS and Strava accounts - it even automatically uploaded all my old rides. But if I wanted to sync up rides from Strava to some other service and it seems my only option would be to download and then upload all the data manually; maybe it would be doable in batches instead of individual rides, but it would still be a manual process.

It seems fairly clear to me which provider is the one being difficult here.
Ah, so being able to quickly and easily download all of your info isn't enough - a service provider should also synchronize with every other competing service provider out there, including back-cataloged files. Got it, thanks.
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Old 05-21-20, 02:08 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
It seems fairly clear to me which provider is the one being difficult here.
Garmin Connect?

Actually,you're commenting on the ease of using Strava as an intermediary, as a conduit for syncing other services on an ongoing basis. That's not migration, which is a one-and-done process.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:17 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
They've yanked some stuff from the Free version, but what history do they have of making sudden, radical changes to Premium content? I really haven't taken advantage of a lot of the Premium features, but I'm tangentially aware that they've been adding quite a bit of it.
Radical changes to the API that result in breaking 3rd party applications has the potential to effect both Free and Paid users. Less than a year after Premium was released (c.2012) Strava made similar drastic changes to the API and broke platforms including Wahoo and CycleOps (DCRainmaker, 2013). Back then at least, the community was given a month's notice.

----------

Overall, it seems like Strava might get what they want out of this -- an immediate and significant uptick in subscriptions. Whether or not they continue to grow the userbase thereafter is an open question. For more casual users, noticing what features are now missing might take a few more days, and transitioning to alternatives might take even longer; new users may never see the use of Strava from the free version, making it more unlikely for them to become subscribers.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:23 AM
  #154  
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Strava makes it easy to sync to, but impossible to sync from. They did not make migration easy from their end, they pretty much did the minimum to make it possible at all. It makes sense from a business perspective, but please let's not pretend that they aren't intentionally trying to make it easy to join and hard to leave.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:44 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
Radical changes to the API that result in breaking 3rd party applications has the potential to effect both Free and Paid users. Less than a year after Premium was released (c.2012) Strava made similar drastic changes to the API and broke platforms including Wahoo and CycleOps (DCRainmaker, 2013). Back then at least, the community was given a month's notice.
I was asking about Premium content, not APIs and 3rd party apps.

Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
...but please let's not pretend that they aren't intentionally trying to make it easy to join and hard to leave.
You didn't answer the question: do you really believe that they anything less than connecting to and syncing with every competing service is a knock against them? 'cause that's just ridiculous.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:48 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
I was just reading their email and was surprised to find out that they as a company have yet to make money.
Anyway, I was wondering how many of you pay for their subscription and why... also if any of you plan to pay for it now at $5 a month.
You'd be shocked by how many .com's don't make any money many just try to build an audience so they can slap a value on user counts and engagement figures to try and get bought out. For me I figured I have not paid for a Starbucks coffee in 2 months that's at least 60$ I'll give the subscription a try. if I dont like it in a year I can cancel. I have already set my calendar reminder a year out to cancel
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Old 05-22-20, 08:54 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by taco2ewsday View Post
You'd be shocked by how many .com's don't make any money many just try to build an audience so they can slap a value on user counts and engagement figures to try and get bought out. For me I figured I have not paid for a Starbucks coffee in 2 months that's at least 60$ I'll give the subscription a try. if I dont like it in a year I can cancel. I have already set my calendar reminder a year out to cancel
I'm trying to understand the math on this. Maybe the vast majority of Strava users are/were free subscribers. They have about 50 million subscribers (of some sort). If 30 million pay, that's $1.8 Billion in revenue, which would cover paying each of their 220 employees $8 million salaries. Ok.. I'm sure they have to buy some computers and rent some office space.. but still.
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Old 05-22-20, 09:01 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I was asking about Premium content, not APIs and 3rd party apps.
I guess I don't understand the insistence on only evaluating Premium when conducting a consumer analysis. Strava's business plan (and many other web-companies) is to entice a user base with free features and earn conversions to premium subscriptions. When the free features are unreliable or nonexistent, what hope of attracting new users does Strava have?
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Old 05-22-20, 09:12 AM
  #159  
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Of the 38 people I follow 13 have the little subscribe icon and most of those folks are 'affluent' to say the least I'm not sure the average cyclist or runner has been giving them any $ I wasn't until this week.

And it's more than some computers I'm sure their Amazon Web Services hosting bill is in the 10's of thousands per month.

it's 5 years old but interesting

Sampling Strava | Mark Slavonia
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Old 05-22-20, 09:33 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by taco2ewsday View Post
And it's more than some computers I'm sure their Amazon Web Services hosting bill is in the 10's of thousands per month.
Yep, that cost big bucks. They'd grind to a halt quick if they only had our home ISP cost and more than a handful of users wanted to access them at a time.
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Old 05-22-20, 09:54 AM
  #161  
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I've been Premium since 2014. 17 cents per day is a relatively small price to pay considering that "they/we" say that cycling costs about 13 cents per mile, all costs considered. Analyzing my power curve (power meter required) for low spots, and then on a future ride making a small incremental increase in watts for that time interval, is how I train. I could (and do) use other tools to do this, typically Garmin Connect or Golden Cheetah, but the social motivation and inspiration (photos of local scenery, viewing the big rides of hardcore local riders/friends, and learning new routes) that Strava currently provides puts everything I like in one convenient place, without bouncing around from app to app, just to save 17 cents. When another tool pops up that does all of this (for free), I may jump, but for now Strava owns this space.

Last edited by Riveting; 05-22-20 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 05-22-20, 10:00 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
I guess I don't understand the insistence on only evaluating Premium when conducting a consumer analysis.
Because I was specifically responding to expressed reluctance of investing time and effort in to their Premium content.
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Old 05-22-20, 10:18 AM
  #163  
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I had enjoyed checking my run or ride against my recent and historical performance. Not enough to pay for it though.

I do have Fitbit uploading automatically to Strava, and Golden Cheetah automatically pulling from Strava, so I'll keep my account as long as that functionality remains free. There's no other reason for me to visit Strava now though and it's somewhat disappointing. I think they've made a serious mistake.
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Old 05-22-20, 10:22 AM
  #164  
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It now appears that I canít see my own previous efforts on a segment in the free version .

That makes it just about useless to me.

may just use Garmin connect
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Old 05-22-20, 11:12 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
Strava makes it easy to sync to, but impossible to sync from. They did not make migration easy from their end, they pretty much did the minimum to make it possible at all. It makes sense from a business perspective, but please let's not pretend that they aren't intentionally trying to make it easy to join and hard to leave.
youíd be hard pressed to find any business that would make migrating away from them really easy imho.

That being said, in Strava, thereís an option to download all your activities in one time. And there are many cycling apps (both local and web based) that allow you to batch upload very simply.

in fact, if you install golden cheetah, youíll see that you can ďsyncĒ from Strava, while many of their ďcompetitorsĒ only allow uploads from golden cheetah.

Having never used the social aspects of Strava, Iíve downloaded and deleted my activities, but letís call a spade a spade...
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Old 05-22-20, 11:38 AM
  #166  
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I havenít read the whole thread so I may have missed it.

Has anyone raised the issue of how tone deaf It is to impose a new fee in the middle of a Pandemic.

It would appear that people are using Strava more in the Pandemic, in part as a way to stay connected in the absence of group rides. I started a Strava club for the people who did our regular Saturday ride.

Add that many many people are unemployed, canít pay the rent or the mortgage. Every $5 matters when you have zero income.

Seems horribly insensitive to impose new costs on your clients, particularly when other companies are trying to find ways to help their customers get through this.

For that reason alone, Iím not going to pay, at least for now.
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Old 05-22-20, 11:58 AM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I havenít read the whole thread so I may have missed it.

It would appear that people are using Strava more in the Pandemic, in part as a way to stay connected in the absence of group rides. I started a Strava club for the people who did our regular Saturday ride.

Add that many many people are unemployed, canít pay the rent or the mortgage. Every $5 matters when you have zero income.
.
I think you did miss something.. there's still a free option, and still includes the social networking you're concerned about people losing.
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Old 05-22-20, 12:12 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
I havenít read the whole thread so I may have missed it.

Has anyone raised the issue of how tone deaf It is to impose a new fee in the middle of a Pandemic.

It would appear that people are using Strava more in the Pandemic, in part as a way to stay connected in the absence of group rides. I started a Strava club for the people who did our regular Saturday ride.

Add that many many people are unemployed, canít pay the rent or the mortgage. Every $5 matters when you have zero income.

Seems horribly insensitive to impose new costs on your clients, particularly when other companies are trying to find ways to help their customers get through this.

For that reason alone, Iím not going to pay, at least for now.
I'm mixed on this. Strava is certainly a "luxury" application, in the sense that it is not food, water, shelter, utilities, or telecom. As well, the functionality that has been "promoted" to premium is not really something critical to the nature of today's world.

That being said, you're right, the structure change could have waited and Strava could have just positioned it accordingly.
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Old 05-22-20, 12:18 PM
  #169  
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Actually I'm not sold that during the pandemic there are a lot more Strava users.. Aren't a lot more people choosing to ride on trainers indoors than otherwise (and yes, I guess you can put indoor rides into Strava, but still...). There might be a lot more people on bikes to avoid mass transit, but not sure they're your typical Strava target audience anyway.
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Old 05-22-20, 12:34 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
I was just reading their email and was surprised to find out that they as a company have yet to make money.
b2c web businesses are difficult. You need to hope network effects kick in because low (or no with advertising businesses) revenue from each individual precludes significant customer acquisition costs. Getting to that point can take a decade and a hundred million dollars. When you bet wrong your options are much more limited than with a B2B company where sufficient revenue to cover customer acquisition costs comes early.

Anyway, I was wondering how many of you pay for their subscription and why... also if any of you plan to pay for it now at $5 a month.
The heatmap is the only strava feature I care about. It suggests roads popular among cyclists that I might want to take on a long ride.

I upload rides I think strava followers would like, but otherwise would stop with a local upload for training (Golden Cheetah) and ridewithgps for sharing (it allows attached pictures and has better map options).

ridewithgps is worth $10/month to me for the ride planning features (selectable maps like OSM with water sources, trace rides to import as routes, generate custom cue sheets) but Strava doesn't deliver enough value for me to pay money.

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Old 05-22-20, 01:35 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I'm trying to understand the math on this. Maybe the vast majority of Strava users are/were free subscribers. They have about 50 million subscribers (of some sort). If 30 million pay, that's $1.8 Billion in revenue, which would cover paying each of their 220 employees $8 million salaries. Ok.. I'm sure they have to buy some computers and rent some office space.. but still.
The percentage of paying users may be more like 5%, rather than the 60% in your estimate.
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Old 05-22-20, 03:15 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
ridewithgps is worth $10/month to me for the ride planning features (selectable maps like OSM with water sources, trace rides to import as routes, generate custom cue sheets) but Strava doesn't deliver enough value for me to pay money.
According to their website. RWGPS has not taken any outside funding and is cash-flow positive. My guess is that RWGPS has a much, much higher percentage of paying customers than Strava.
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Old 05-23-20, 04:28 AM
  #173  
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I have lost my cateye Strada in the desert going down Kit Peak in Arizona 3 years ago and started using free strava on my iPhone in my rear pocket.

the only thing I check at the end is my total distance and elevation.

the segments was starting to piss me off as there are many who are going slow the rest of the ride, group riding, and attacking on a segment during a ride to get the KOM.

I mainly ride alone since covid19 and since I have kids I go for early ride, so I don’t like the segments since it’s overly dependant in tailwind and strava doesn’t correct for that

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Old 05-23-20, 04:59 AM
  #174  
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Well, paying for a Strava subscription had one unexpected benefit. Apparently I'm not the slowest old dude out there. I'm more middle of the pack. The age breakdown is interesting. I thought some of the faster guys were my age, but they're younger.

But the weight breakdown isn't as kind. A 150 lb 62 y/o still ain't a 150 lb 22 y/o.
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Old 05-23-20, 07:44 AM
  #175  
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STRAVA Updates: Subscription Changes // New Features // Hands-on Look [May 2020]

Shane Miller has posted an analysis of what you get with Strava for free at YouTube:

Summary Strava Free:
  • Unlimited uploads / activities.
  • Upload direct (Strava Apps) or via a 3rd party linked service (Zwift, TrainerRoad, Peloton, etc)
  • Training Summary (Weekly/Monthly/Yearly Totals)
  • Dashboard is still the same. (Activity Feed, Kudos, Commenting, Posts - The social experience).
  • Activity Analysis (Distance, Time, HR, Power, etc. + point and click drill-down).
  • Segments still exist. (THEY ARE NOT PAYWALLED)
  • You can see Segment details (distance, elevation, map, etc).
  • You'll still set Segment PR/CR/QOM/KOM if you're fast enough.
  • You can see your PR and your current activity segment time/stats.
  • You can perform an effort comparison against your segment PR and QOM/KOM.
  • You can create Segments.
  • You can't see anything more than Top 10 Overall and Top 10 Women segment times.
  • You can't see all of your previous Segment times/attempts.
  • You can't set Goals.
  • NO access to Training Analysis (Power Curve, Freshness/Fitness, etc).
  • Flybys (full functionality)
  • Clubs (full functionality)
  • Monthly Challenges (full functionality)
  • Routes: This is a tricky one. NO direct access to the new Route Builder.
    • You can't create a route from scratch.
    • You can't modify/edit existing route paths. (Edit: Name, Description, Type, Privacy.)
    • You can copy existing Strava routes. You can create routes from any activity (yours or someone else's). You can also import GPX via Strava Labs (for now). Routes will still sync to 3rd parties (Garmin Connect Courses API, head units etc).
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