Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Thinking of no longer riding on roads

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Thinking of no longer riding on roads

Old 06-25-18, 05:18 PM
  #26  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,190

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2261 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times in 187 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Sir, I feel for you if this is your daily experience. My daily experience is much different. In the last 20 years or so, have been yelled at once (and an apple thrown) by some high school punks, and maybe been beeped at once or twice because a motorist had to wait. No swerves or purposeful close calls.

as for the sharks, the only way to avoid 100% is to not get in the ocean, but i choose not to do that. Just like if you want to be 100% sure you are not hit on the road is to not ride on the road, but I also choose not to do that...to me that is not living life. your choices and the OP's choices will differ depending on personal viewpoint
Close calls are daily. It is worse because out here red-necks drive pickups designed for pulling trailers so they have extended mirrors that stick out an additional 2 feet on either side...and cyclists get "mirrored" and the motorist drives on never knowing they hit and killed a cyclist simply with their mirrors. I think in the last 5 years half-a-dozen cyclist deaths near My Fair City are truck-mirror-strike hit-and-runs. Then there are the red necks that see a cyclist and will swerve just in front of you onto the shoulder to spray gravel at you.

Last month I was riding at 0500-0800 before work because of High Summer heat/humidity....on one rural state highway (all but otherwise deserted at that hour), at 0645 every morning I'd meet the same car going the opposite direction. He'd blare his horn yell and flip me the bird. Why? Because I'm on a bike.


Back a decade and a half ago cyclists around here would get greeted "HEY LANCE!" out the window...now it is "HEY F@G GET OFF THE ROAD!"....and that is the stuff I can say that will not earn an infraction. And the homophobic slurs are nothing compared to what the ladies have to deal with. For the politically inclined-rednecks also always assume cyclists are liberals, so that adds even more to the dumpster fire of hate levied in Red State Landia.


And that is before cellphone zombies come into it.

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 06-25-18 at 05:22 PM.
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Old 06-25-18, 05:27 PM
  #27  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 3,683

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 121 Posts
I have not been out on an "open road" ride since Nov of last year. I had several minor incidents in a row that just had me lose confidence that I would get back home uninjured/alive. It rather sucks because it has been piled onto the list of uncertainties and excuses that keep my off my bike and have me firmly planted back in Clyde world. It actually didn't help that we passed a 3 foot law and not one cop anywhere enforces it. Almost got run over (among those incidents) by a cop who had just watched me get mirror bumped by the car in front of them. Imagine my disquiet when I am trying to get his attention to write THEM a ticket and follows up by almost killing me himself. I was rather incredulous.

Now I try to ride, on the seldom case that I do, on cart paths, in a park/neighborhood, or on my trainer.

As to group rides? Yeah, about totally done with that non-sense. I quit riding with my club because of asshat shenanigans everyone wanted to pull like we were in some magical CAT6 race. I was doing some large social rides and between the mindless young liberals that populated the rides and the drunk folks that couldn't, I decided that probably wasn't safe either.

I have to say that in respect to riding I sure did enjoy when I was younger and more mindless to the inherent dangers.
Juan Foote is offline  
Old 06-25-18, 07:25 PM
  #28  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 3,927
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1077 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 172 Times in 105 Posts
I'm fortunate to have good roads and friendly drivers. Never occurs to me to have any fear. There have been couple of cyclists killed on area roads, but the roads are also dotted with crosses commemorating deaths in auto accidents and that doesn't worry me when I'm driving. I get a few horns and hollers, but it's rare. If I had to put up with nasty drivers on a daily basis, it would definitely take a lot of the fun out riding and I might feel differently.
jon c. is offline  
Old 06-25-18, 11:27 PM
  #29  
Chris0516
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I don't have the option to avoid high-traffic roads. Because I live in a very congested region.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 05:04 AM
  #30  
Greenhil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Central Vermont
Posts: 217

Bikes: 2018 Kona Rove NRB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 17 Posts
I try to pick my spots. Here all the roads are rural roads, which I think helps - but that means people often drive too fast.

A few weeks ago I was thinking about riding to and from work, which would be about 26 miles each way, and on my drive home decided to scope out a route. Part of it was along a dirt road which was serving as a detour during road construction. No shoulder, obviously, lots of curves and too much traffic going too fast for that stretch of road. I decided it was too sketchy (and wouldn’t be much fun, anyway). Sadly, a few days later a cyclist was hit and seriously injured on that same stretch.

i try to avoid the busiest roads, highways without shoulders and those popular with rubbernecking tourists.
Greenhil is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 05:35 AM
  #31  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 963
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Liked 274 Times in 145 Posts
Originally Posted by salcedo View Post
This. Cycling feels riskier than it is. Many activities that you do are riskier than they feel.

For example, living a sedentary life sitting on your couch all day is way more dangerous than being out on the road.
There it is.
The nonsensical and unsolicited comparison.
FYI, living a sedentary life sitting on your couch while eating a healthy diet is way safer than being out on the road and eating an unhealthy diet.
What’s your point?
Because it seems like you are trying to defend road cycling as not being dangerous and that is silly.
It is dangerous.
downhillmaster is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 07:00 AM
  #32  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,432

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked 145 Times in 102 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post


Because it seems like you are trying to defend road cycling as not being dangerous and that is silly.
It is dangerous.
There's only one factor that makes cycling dangerous and it's not the bicycle, the cyclists nor pedestrians.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3557529
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 07:10 AM
  #33  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,946

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1893 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Because it seems like you are trying to defend road cycling as not being dangerous and that is silly.
It is dangerous.
Cycling is more dangerous than some activities and less than other activities. To simply say that it's dangerous is silly.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 07:15 AM
  #34  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,946

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1893 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 112 Posts
This might be of interest:
Risk of dying and sporting activities
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 07:42 AM
  #35  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,966

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1330 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times in 144 Posts
Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
This might be of interest:
Risk of dying and sporting activities
Honesly I want to know how someone dies from playing table tennis (ping pong). I mean, does the ball bounce off the table into the player's mouth and get stuck in his throat causing suffocation?
Milton Keynes is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 07:48 AM
  #36  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,946

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1893 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Honesly I want to know how someone dies from playing table tennis (ping pong). I mean, does the ball bounce off the table into the player's mouth and get stuck in his throat causing suffocation?
I wondered the same thing. Even running. I had no idea it was that dangerous.

Seriously, though, if the data is correct I am thinking maybe heart attack or stroke, or something similar.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 07:53 AM
  #37  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,966

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1330 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times in 144 Posts
Well, with running, there's always the possibility of getting run over by a car. But table tennis?

And if the cause of death is heart attack or stroke, I'd attribute that to be the cause of death, not exercising. Maybe the exercise might be a factor, but not necessarily the cause of death.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 08:00 AM
  #38  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 963
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 573 Post(s)
Liked 274 Times in 145 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
There's only one factor that makes cycling dangerous and it's not the bicycle, the cyclists nor pedestrians.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3557529
Incorrect. As with anything, there are multiple factors. Of course in the case of cycling the single biggest factor by far would be motorists.
But I have seen plenty of cyclists swerve into traffic to avoid a pothole or road debris. Cyclists are not blameless.
downhillmaster is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 08:44 AM
  #39  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,946

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1893 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post

Incorrect. As with anything, there are multiple factors. Of course in the case of cycling the single biggest factor by far would be motorists.
But I have seen plenty of cyclists swerve into traffic to avoid a pothole or road debris. Cyclists are not blameless.
His point, and I get it, is that without cars cycling would be infinitely safer. No need to be pedantic about it.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 08:53 AM
  #40  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 27,425
Mentioned: 193 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11679 Post(s)
Liked 3,507 Times in 1,869 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post


But I have seen plenty of cyclists swerve into traffic to avoid a pothole or road debris. Cyclists are not blameless.
Shoot. I know of plenty of cyclists who have wiped out with no auto involvement whatsoever. During one club event a guy came down a hill too fast, lost control at an intersection and ended up dead in the parking lot of some farm supply business across the road. When I was touring out west two friends came off Togwotee Pass into DuBois, WY. One of them ride through a patch of sand on the shoulder and wiped out big time. Broke ribs, punctured a lung, etc. I heard the ambulance but didn't know what had happened. Ended up running into his buddy the following day in city park in Lander. He was camping there while their wives drove out from MN to pick them up. A few days later I was walking to get lunch in Jeffrey City when I saw a van with MN plates heading east. Two bikes were on the roof. One of them was seriously messed up. Must have been them. A few years ago, a friend of mine lost control, went off course and hit a tree with his face while taking a warm up lap before a CX race. He died right there.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 09:56 AM
  #41  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,432

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 920 Post(s)
Liked 145 Times in 102 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post

Incorrect. As with anything, there are multiple factors. Of course in the case of cycling the single biggest factor by far would be motorists.
But I have seen plenty of cyclists swerve into traffic to avoid a pothole or road debris. Cyclists are not blameless.
So how many people who has posted here and in the following article are thinking of giving up cycling or changing their route because of potholes or road debris? And you're also trying to pin blame for a cyclist trying to avoid pot holes and debris? How many motorists actually do the same?

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/06/14/for-torontos-cyclists-the-fear-is-real-and-its-holding-them-back.html

Last edited by Daniel4; 06-26-18 at 09:59 AM.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 11:22 AM
  #42  
LanghamP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
[QUOTE=Daniel4;20413411]So how many people who has posted here and in the following article are thinking of giving up cycling or changing their route because of potholes or road debris? And you're also trying to pin blame for a cyclist trying to avoid pot holes and debris? How many motorists actually do the same?
/QUOTE]

"Swerving into traffic" implies the bicyclist was never accepted as traffic in the first place, but rather squeezed to the side until he needed to take evasive action.

Virtually 100% of my accidents have involved cars. Even the non auto accident I had eight years ago might be argued as car related because I took a convoluted route in order to avoid going across a narrow two lane bridge where I might have been hit by an impatient driver.

The biggest threat bicyclists have is being hit by drivers. From most to least effectiveness...
--Remove the threat.
--Isolate the threat.
--Training the threat not to hit you.
--Training yourself to deal with the threat that's about to hit you.
--Safety equipment when the threat hits you.

This is why I don't advocate helmets; they just don't do much good in avoiding the threat in the first place, or help much during a collision.
LanghamP is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 11:37 AM
  #43  
Dyskolos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 91

Bikes: 2013 Giant Defy Composite 2 and 2016 Giant AnyRoad CoMax

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had four injury/damage crashes prior to being hit by a car, all of which were self-inflicted and one of which resulted in greater physical injury and more more damage to the bike than being hit by the car. I didn't think of ceasing to ride roads because in each of the four self-inflicted crashes I knew what happened to cause the crash and the power to correct each condition lay solely with me. Being hit by the car, however, was entirely different. There was absolutely nothing I could have done differently to avoid it other than simply not being on the road, so that is what I choose. Statistics are comforting until you are the one . . .
Dyskolos is offline  
Old 06-26-18, 12:13 PM
  #44  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 7,146

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1213 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times in 323 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post

There it is.
The nonsensical and unsolicited comparison.
FYI, living a sedentary life sitting on your couch while eating a healthy diet is way safer than being out on the road and eating an unhealthy diet.
What’s your point?
Because it seems like you are trying to defend road cycling as not being dangerous and that is silly.
It is dangerous.
This presents it like riding on the road is a sure path to injury and death, which it is not. Scare mongering is not beneficial to advocacy.

There is is some risk to riding on the road, but it is not outrageous risk and it is a risk that can be mitigated by many simple things on the riders part
__________________
Looking for more time to ride what I have
squirtdad is offline  
Old 06-27-18, 07:57 AM
  #45  
salcedo
Senior Member
 
salcedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 326

Bikes: Specialized Allez, Trek CrossRip

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post

There it is.
The nonsensical and unsolicited comparison.
FYI, living a sedentary life sitting on your couch while eating a healthy diet is way safer than being out on the road and eating an unhealthy diet.
What’s your point?
Because it seems like you are trying to defend road cycling as not being dangerous and that is silly.
It is dangerous.
Of course it is not dangerous. Not really. Cycling in places like the US or Canada is only slightly more risky than driving in terms of serious accidents or death per time traveled. But it is still much safer than a lot of activities that people do on a regular basis. The health benefits from cycling exceed the health risks. (A good diet helps, but some physical activity is also important to live a healthy life).

And it depends on how you ride. The data includes recreational cyclists who like to do 50mph descents on curvy roads with moderate car traffic. And it includes bike messengers racing each other through the city disregarding traffic rules.

If you are worried about your safety, ride safely.
salcedo is offline  
Old 06-27-18, 10:17 AM
  #46  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,254
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1326 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 80 Times in 63 Posts
I've been cycling on roadways for over 30 years now and have been hit four times. You get used to it
work4bike is offline  
Old 06-27-18, 05:03 PM
  #47  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 4,418

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1275 Post(s)
Liked 480 Times in 249 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I've been cycling on roadways for over 30 years now and have been hit four times. You get used to it
This may seem like an inflammatory question, but that's not my intent. With the benefit of hindsight and the knowledge you have gained through the years, were any of them avoidable.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Old 06-28-18, 05:23 AM
  #48  
dennis336
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 380

Bikes: Trek Domane, Surly Disc Trucker, Canondale Synapse (winter bike)

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 24 Posts
How we assess risk and respond to it is an interesting topic. There are certainly activities that are objectively/statistically more risky than others. I'm thinking that most of us don't know the risk statistics for all the activities we take part in throughout each day but our decisions to partake or avoid specific activities is a mix of personal experience, biases, and psychology. A common example is someone who is terrified of flying in an airplane but participates in many other activities that are statistically far more dangerous. I think this happens at a personal level in our decision making and at a societal level. Based on a whole host of historical, cultural, and other reasons we may respond quite differently to certain kinds of threats that are statically less a threat than others that actually are more costly in terms of threat and public safety.
dennis336 is offline  
Old 06-28-18, 05:48 AM
  #49  
Marcus_Ti 
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
 
Marcus_Ti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,190

Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2261 Post(s)
Liked 287 Times in 187 Posts
Originally Posted by salcedo View Post
Of course it is not dangerous. Not really. Cycling in places like the US or Canada is only slightly more risky than driving in terms of serious accidents or death per time traveled. But it is still much safer than a lot of activities that people do on a regular basis. The health benefits from cycling exceed the health risks. (A good diet helps, but some physical activity is also important to live a healthy life).

And it depends on how you ride. The data includes recreational cyclists who like to do 50mph descents on curvy roads with moderate car traffic. And it includes bike messengers racing each other through the city disregarding traffic rules.

If you are worried about your safety, ride safely.
The only way to "ride safely" and not be hit by a car, is to not ride among cars. That is it.


There is nothing as cyclists we can do about cellphone zombies and mid-afternoon drunks coming back from tailgating. Cyclists will still be hit and killed even after doing everything right WRT traffic law and street smarts.
Marcus_Ti is online now  
Old 06-28-18, 06:38 AM
  #50  
MoAlpha
• —
 
MoAlpha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 6,231

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4232 Post(s)
Liked 1,543 Times in 851 Posts
Humans are notoriously terrible at estimating risk and act consistently on irrational inborn biases. We gamble away our savings, ignore massive threats to life and limb, and get all phobic about stupid stuff. Whole industries are built on this fact and our public policy and politics reflect it vividly.
MoAlpha is offline  
Likes For MoAlpha:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.