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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 02-22-18, 11:45 AM
  #2526  
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The track thread got locked - lololol
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Old 02-22-18, 01:10 PM
  #2527  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
The track thread got locked - lololol
Yea, that was more fun than USAC targeting juniors.
Isn't the thread starter a mod anyway?
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Old 02-22-18, 01:30 PM
  #2528  
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yeah he's a long time mod and forum member.
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Old 02-22-18, 02:44 PM
  #2529  
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No longer a mod. One of the fortunate ones who have escaped.

OP requested it be closed, as it seemed to run its course.
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Old 02-22-18, 08:49 PM
  #2530  
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Certification class - if you show up late you won't be admitted. I impressed this on a coworker. "Remember, they close the doors so get there early." So what I did I do? Showed up a bit late. Boss had texted me that morning, "You ready for your class?". Oops, forgot. Got dressed in record time, left, but it's a solid 45 minute drive, not 15 like to the store.

Guy guarding the door opens the door. "I saw you standing by the other door at 7:30, you've been standing at the wrong door man!" and let me in. He announces loudly to the rest of the class that I was out there at the wrong door.

I take a seat.

We do some class stuff then some lab stuff. Lab stuff (it's vehicle emissions) involves running vehicles on a dyno. Since I could drive a stick and I was close to the car the instructor had me do all the driving for his example tests. I also helped get the various sensors and such because, you know, it just helps move things along. We broke up into two groups to do practice tests, instructor says to me that I don't have to do it as I already drove three times, tried two different rpm set ups, helped set up this and that, etc.

Back to class for the test. 20 question multiple choice. Did it in maybe 3-4 minutes. Double checked because in high school I'd do tests quickly, hand in my test, and get a couple wrong because I was in such a rush to finish quickly (once I got a zero - all wrong! - because I got tricked by every question - after that I got much better scores because I double checked before handing in). While double checking the door guard guy walks over because I'm not filling rectangles anymore. "You're done, right?" I gave him the test. I hear from all around me, "What the f*ck" etc.

Instructor, as he slipped my test through the scoring scanner. "Here's our first hundred (percent)".

73 degrees when I left. Beautiful, warm, sunny day, and I'd spent the day inside. Couldn't get back home until after the Missus picked up Junior so we went out to dinner and hung out together.

Rode the trainer that night.

Bonus? I learned that I can drive my Sentra. It doesn't pass emissions but that doesn't mean it's no longer registered. I thought that in CT after 60 days of failing emissions that the registration gets revoked. It's a myth. Registration is good for 2 years regardless of emissions status. Thing is that you can't renew emissions if you don't pass emissions. So I get to drive my Sentra this summer more. Yay!

(And I need to figure out why it's throwing the one code before December 2018. Workaround I think is to sell the car to someone else in CT like my brother, wait 3-5 months like maybe until April, then buy it back. That resets the "initial registration" clock to zero and I'd have two years to drive the car around.)
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Old 02-22-18, 09:18 PM
  #2531  
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oops.
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Old 02-23-18, 08:06 AM
  #2532  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post


(And I need to figure out why it's throwing the one code before December 2018. Workaround I think is to sell the car to someone else in CT like my brother, wait 3-5 months like maybe until April, then buy it back. That resets the "initial registration" clock to zero and I'd have two years to drive the car around.)
Sounds like some pretty big loopholes in the law there. What code is it setting?
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Old 02-23-18, 08:41 AM
  #2533  
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I was thinking a bit more about the cross over thing - track/road. In the 70s/80 seems like a lot of guys did both. Gibby Hatton was UCI track podium, and in a lot of crits and was racing local just 2 years ago at age 60 in a Cat 2. There are a lot of other names that did both - even I could out climb some. Now even track night (in Carson at least) are divided. There are the sprinters and then the omnium riders. I see those two as different, at least in physique, as what was between track and road. This might not be any different than the specialization going on in a lot of areas. Even looking at who were the very strong road juniors, they still do road, but one is a cx pro (former junior track NC), one is a MTB pro and that pulls them away from road. That might be good, but they do miss road events. There are just a lot of options and to dominate, there is a benefit from specialization - I think, not convinced.
I still don't think each (14 for a collegiate/USAC rider) need their own upgrade path, which also keeps them separate.

Last edited by Doge; 02-23-18 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 02-23-18, 10:04 AM
  #2534  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
The track thread got locked - lololol
To me it's always both amusing and frustrating when somebody asks a question and then gets argumentative when they don't like the responses they get.
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Old 02-23-18, 11:29 AM
  #2535  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Sounds like some pretty big loopholes in the law there. What code is it setting?
P0037 O2 heater circuit, too low voltage.

I've checked the resistance in the O2 sensor, even switched with one with a lower resistance (but within specs) to try and increase voltage.

Checked wiring continuity up to the pins leading to the PCM, good.

This made me suspect the PCM. I have a different PCM but have not paired the key to it yet.

I see I think (I can't remember) 3.9v when doing a live feed. I think it has to be 4.0 or something. It's just barely failing the self monitor test.

The kicker is that the car should be otherwise legal. Cat, O2 sensors, etc.

Loopholes - the registration cancellation was a proposed law but it was never passed. By not passing it, and by having a 60 day time frame for "resetting" who owns the vehicle, the loophole exists. If the "reset" time frame was, say, 1 year, or 2 years, it would discourage resetting the title.
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Old 02-23-18, 06:20 PM
  #2536  
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The more I end up doing large projects at work more and more by myself, the more I consider my next career move being into opening my own firm.

I'm good with clients, and understand the money I think, but man, giving up a salary to strike out in my own would be terrifying.

I'm going to start gathering contacts just in case anyway though.
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Old 02-23-18, 08:29 PM
  #2537  
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Snagged a very fresh looking Cyclops fluid2 trainer and wheel block on Craigslist for $40. I've already got a trainer, but for that price I'll let my wife use it and/or lend it out to teammates
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Old 02-24-18, 08:34 AM
  #2538  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
P0037 O2 heater circuit, too low voltage.

I've checked the resistance in the O2 sensor, even switched with one with a lower resistance (but within specs) to try and increase voltage.

Checked wiring continuity up to the pins leading to the PCM, good.

This made me suspect the PCM. I have a different PCM but have not paired the key to it yet.

I see I think (I can't remember) 3.9v when doing a live feed. I think it has to be 4.0 or something. It's just barely failing the self monitor test.
You could try to measure the voltage at the pcm terminal (backprobe) and see if you get a different reading with the dvom than what shows on the scan tool. Check any grounds involved. Make sure you have full battery voltage at the sensor. Good luck.

Last edited by big john; 02-24-18 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 02-24-18, 11:38 AM
  #2539  
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Race day today, but it was upgrade day at work so I brought my bike since the race is only 5 miles away and work only goes 2 hours. Found out its an all day upgrade but on the positive side I'm getting some nice OT.

$50 for a hilly circuit race I probably have no shot in so its not a major loss.

Last edited by furiousferret; 02-24-18 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 02-24-18, 01:16 PM
  #2540  
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I wanted to illustrate how much is involved for those that really want to cross disciplines, and live and race in different areas. This was what I mentioned on the locked thread on road to track. It is too hard, and it is junior's job to do it now he is an adult.

The Primary USAC Category purpose was for Track (he wants to race track). Right now he can't race cat 4 track because whatever waiver was signed for collegiate, does not work for non-collegiate. Collegiate nationals is on that COS track, but a collegiate license is not OK to train there - you need a cat 4. I'm just suspecting an upgrade will need to come from SoCal as that is his Local Association, not the COS folks.

He also put in for a Cat 1 cx, got it, no experience. He put in for a Cat 1 MTB after a season racing pros in collegiate and heard nothing. I assume it was just the paperwork.

This would be much easier if he was registered in Belgium and racing Internationally here.
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Old 02-24-18, 05:34 PM
  #2541  
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I guess I don't see the issue. Road racing is so different from CX, Track, and Mtb that I would feel silly requesting an upgrade based on my road race results.
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Old 02-24-18, 06:55 PM
  #2542  
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I never did a CX race before I got my cat 1 in CX... (never asked for it, just noticed it on a new license I got).

I did two mountain bike races, and then emailed a guy I know from college for a cat 1 upgrade and got that.

Just about talking to the right person.

A good rider is a good rider, period. Doesn't really matter the discipline, in my opinion (except maybe trials and downhill, where it's more skill/less fitness).
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Old 02-24-18, 07:04 PM
  #2543  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I never did a CX race before I got my cat 1 in CX... (never asked for it, just noticed it on a new license I got).

I did two mountain bike races, and then emailed a guy I know from college for a cat 1 upgrade and got that.

Just about talking to the right person.

A good rider is a good rider, period. Doesn't really matter the discipline, in my opinion (except maybe trials and downhill, where it's more skill/less fitness).
As someone who has raced track, there is absolutely a difference. A strong road racer with no track skills is a menace on the track. There are rules and etiquette on the track that must be followed to keep everyone safe, and there are some key differences to riding on the track safely.
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Old 02-24-18, 07:05 PM
  #2544  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I guess I don't see the issue. Road racing is so different from CX, Track, and Mtb that I would feel silly requesting an upgrade based on my road race results.
The other point I am making is, a road cat 1 knows their limitations. Just because they may do something does not mean they will.

Would you, if allowed, go jump into a Cat 1 track event, or a MTB downhill?

Gravel, cobbles, RR and crits are as different and all used a road grade.

For junior, After 2 cx races he placed top 15 at nats collegiate. Not a big deal, but there were Pro / Cat 1s in front and behind. In MTB, won the 1st race, placed top 15 again in collegiate nats on a donated bike. Still not a big deal, but in both events at least mid for Cat 1. So outside of due paying, I don't see the issue. These are not hard crosses for elite riders, and if they are, they know better than to try.
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Old 02-24-18, 07:07 PM
  #2545  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
As someone who has raced track, there is absolutely a difference. A strong road racer with no track skills is a menace on the track. There are rules and etiquette on the track that must be followed to keep everyone safe, and there are some key differences to riding on the track safely.
What Cat 1 Road riders can you tell us about that were a menace on the track?
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Old 02-24-18, 07:08 PM
  #2546  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
...
Just about talking to the right person.

A good rider is a good rider, period. Doesn't really matter the discipline, in my opinion (except maybe trials and downhill, where it's more skill/less fitness).
My opinion exactly.

Edit Add...
This is not about me trying to get an upgrade for junior. I know who to call.

Last edited by Doge; 02-24-18 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 02-24-18, 11:33 PM
  #2547  
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Track has a different feel to it. No brakes, no gears, no freewheel. All things roadies rely on subconsciously. My first few times on the track I tried to coast... Caught myself in time. But I've heard of guys crossing the line and then flying over the bars. Also, track is VERY particular about what line one takes. Once you start a sprint you can't move uptrack. Not a big deal, but in elimination with 2 gassed dudes left its hard to remember you can't play games last lap if you accidentally ride below the line. In a crit, guys move all over the place. Track, I once got yelled at for drifting, not even swerving, 6 inches. No exaggeration. After 200 crits and road races stuff gets internalized that one has to unlearn on track.
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Old 02-24-18, 11:51 PM
  #2548  
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A while back people were discussing showing a license at the race, and I've been noting (but not counting) when they ask and when they don't. Turns out I'm asked to show a license far less often than they do. Red kite and velo promo never ask cuz they see me a few dozen times a year. The others do.
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Old 02-24-18, 11:59 PM
  #2549  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I never did a CX race before I got my cat 1 in CX... (never asked for it, just noticed it on a new license I got).

I did two mountain bike races, and then emailed a guy I know from college for a cat 1 upgrade and got that.

Just about talking to the right person.

A good rider is a good rider, period. Doesn't really matter the discipline, in my opinion (except maybe trials and downhill, where it's more skill/less fitness).
i think track is a different beast.

a road upgrade can translate (a bit) to MTB or CX in that fitness is a large role -- and if someone can't hang they're usually not a danger to others. when you are in over your head in MTB you crash (maybe into a tree) but don't usually bring down a pack of riders.

on the track you can hurt lots of people with a moment of inattention, so paying dues counts.

a MTB (or CX) cat 1 shouldn't (IMO) be used for a road upgrade. can't recall if the rules support that view.
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Old 02-25-18, 12:09 PM
  #2550  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
...
on the track you can hurt lots of people with a moment of inattention, so paying dues counts.
How is that different than a crit?

Are there any examples of any road Cat 1s getting on the track and causing any crashes?

I would not expect them to just go out, ride up and down. I'd expect them to ask, watch, learn and then go when they are ready. No upgrade would be needed.

USA Cycling is a roughly $15M revenue company with ~60K members. It has a real problem in getting racers out there, particularly on the track. Velodromes are not so full. Carson is much funded by '84 money. Others by riders, and if the riders aren't there, hard to justify the cost.

Junior's at Copper right now skiing with other road Cat 1s (no license required - also dangerous) rather than racing track. I don't think he cares, or his buddies care. If the barriers to entry were lower, they might not be skiing today.
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