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Advocating for cameras on bikes.

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Advocating for cameras on bikes.

Old 04-08-19, 08:37 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
Maybe a real world example would be helpful. Let's say it's Feb 9, 2019, you're riding along minding your own business. Suddenly a 100 lb German Shepherd lunges at you for no reason, and takes not one, but two bites out of your leg, as you begin bleeding profusely.

QUESTION: Would you feel better having the incident recorded on video, or would you prefer the dog's right to privacy be protected, and he be allowed to dine on your leg in complete anonymity? This is one of those "yes" or "no" questions.
Police Officer: "I don't know ... you say you have VIDEO of a 100lb German Shepard biting you? Twice?! This I gotta see. Hmmm... your camera doesn't have a monitor? WTF? Who goes out with a camera that doesn't allow instant playback? Thanks for wasting our time. By the way you might want to have your leg looked at by somebody. Looks like something bit you pretty bad ...
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Old 04-08-19, 08:43 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
In my case it wasn't necessary to have the footage view at the scene. The driver was arrested for DUI on the spot. In fact, I was the one who informed the LEO to give the driver a sobriety/breathilizer test as I had noticed a scent on him. I gave the video footage to the police later on.

The cameras use a micro SD car, which can be viewed using the police officer's onboard computer.
So ... was the camera useful in this situation or not? But ... wow ... you were able to notice signs of intoxication that a trained LEO did not. Hmmm. Either you have missed your calling or he has. Nothing a camera can do about that.
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Old 04-08-19, 09:09 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
So ... was the camera useful in this situation or not? But ... wow ... you were able to notice signs of intoxication that a trained LEO did not. Hmmm. Either you have missed your calling or he has. Nothing a camera can do about that.
I usually try not to respond to troll posts but FYI, in case you were actually interested, it was early morning and very cold in February. The ambulance and FD arrived first before the cops. Both the driver and I were sitting in the ambulance to keep warm and awaiting the arrival of the police. It was in there that I smelled the alcohol on him. I asked if he'd been drinking. He said no, but he was up late the night before and had had a few drinks then. When the officer arrived I informed him of this.

Perhaps it is you who missed his calling.
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Old 04-08-19, 09:34 AM
  #129  
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Just like a helmet thread ... five pages in, and none of the posts are more than tangentially about helmets, it's just people bickering.
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Old 04-08-19, 09:57 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
Personally, I'm not interested in feeling better about having it recorded or about the dog's privacy, nor any other false choice that may be presented as "a yes or no question".

I am asking advocates (the nominal topic here) how frequently if at all, their video has been used to prove the true events of an incident. For tangible results. Your answer is apparently "never", so thanks for that part.
Is one enough? Howabout five? Does it matter if it was me personally, a friend, a friend of a friend, or a random stranger?

You seem to to think that since this one poster is giving reasons he uses a camera, but hasn't had any incidences since he started using a camera, it's useless, or something. But why do you care? Why are you so against it? That's that part that makes no sense to me. Some day, someone that records an accident you might be in (let's hope it never happens) might have a dashcam or something that validates your story over a driver who is willing to lie their ass off to avoid any personal responsibility.

You don't have to get a camera. I originally got a gopro to record my motorcycle rides for fun. I also used it mostly for recording my mtn bike rides...again, for fun. I simply added it as part of my commute now as a minor insurance measure against the occasional, but too frequent, encounters with driving commuters who don't feel like bikes should be seen on the streets at all.

So, we've got at least one specific instance posted in this thread, where the video evidence led to the aggressive driver getting jail time. Is that not enough?
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Old 04-08-19, 10:06 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Just like a helmet thread ... five pages in, and none of the posts are more than tangentially about helmets, it's just people bickering.
Plus at least half a dozen posts from one poster critiquing/criticizing the quality, subject matter and relevance of all the other posters' comments. And then repeating the critiquing/criticizing routine.
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Old 04-08-19, 10:52 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane
Is one enough? Howabout five? Does it matter if it was me personally, a friend, a friend of a friend, or a random stranger?

You seem to to think that since this one poster is giving reasons he uses a camera, but hasn't had any incidences since he started using a camera, it's useless, or something. But why do you care? Why are you so against it?
I'm not "against" anything about it. That poster, or anyone else, says "I have a camera and find it useful" then I say more power to him. But this thread asks ADVOCATES of video cameras. If you *advocate* something to someone, you have to accept what HE will derive from it.

Before *I* would go to the trouble, I require an reasonable likelihood of it objectively helping to produce concrete results. That is the same rationale for everything that I purchase, and more-so when the purchase requires any commitment of time and effort. You seem to think it unreasonable of me to ask for concrete examples, as if that's some sort of disparagement ... I suggest, if it strikes you that way, there may be some mental conflict in your own decisions. But in any event, it has no bearing on my questions or evaluation.


That's that part that makes no sense to me. Some day, someone that records an accident you might be in (let's hope it never happens) might have a dashcam or something that validates your story over a driver who is willing to lie their ass off to avoid any personal responsibility.

Then you don't understand how to factor probability in one's judgement.

So, we've got at least one specific instance posted in this thread, where the video evidence led to the aggressive driver getting jail time. Is that not enough?
Of course that's not enough - we had that example prior to my posting of the question. I've had about enough of people here disparaging the completely logical and sound question in their "advocacy", and I'll leave you all to it.
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Old 04-08-19, 11:28 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane
So, we've got at least one specific instance posted in this thread, where the video evidence led to the aggressive driver getting jail time. Is that not enough?
Yes, but did he really get jail time?
Was a a real jail, or was it work release?
Were you in the cell next to him for the entire sentence?
Do you have a notarized declaration, made under penalty of perjury, noting his exact check-in time at the jail, and when he was released? Can I see it?
How do you know the guards didn't let him out during the day?
Did he successfully complete probation? How do you know?
Do you have a copy of the court clerk's receipt showing that he paid all of his fines? Oh, you don't???? See I gotcha there!!! He didn't complete his sentence, so he was never properly punished like you said he was. You sir, are a liar. Liar liar, pants on fire!!! Even though I'm just an objective observer here, not taking any sides, I'm just naturally an intellectually-curious person with no particular point of view. Just a seeker of the truth.
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Old 04-08-19, 01:00 PM
  #134  
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Something worked once, somewhere, at some time in the past ... there fore it is a proven necessity. I got you.
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Old 04-08-19, 01:01 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Just like a helmet thread ... five pages in, and none of the posts are more than tangentially about helmets, it's just people bickering.
Shh, work with us here. We're on the same side. This is the thread that finally puts them on the ropes. Blows the whole conspiracy wide open. We can't afford to let up. I can smell their fear. This is the thread. Vive le resistance!
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Old 04-08-19, 01:08 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
If pressed, I would say instead that the answer was irrelevant. Since you listed several incidents, none of which were related to the question ...
So you had no instances, but you wanted to know if a camera would have helped you in those instances that did not happen?
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Old 04-08-19, 01:20 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Just like a helmet thread ... five pages in, and none of the posts are more than tangentially about helmets, it's just people bickering.
Says the man with 17 post so far in the thread.
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Old 04-08-19, 01:29 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
I'm not "against" anything about it. That poster, or anyone else, says "I have a camera and find it useful" then I say more power to him. But this thread asks ADVOCATES of video cameras. If you *advocate* something to someone, you have to accept what HE will derive from it.

Before *I* would go to the trouble, I require an reasonable likelihood of it objectively helping to produce concrete results. That is the same rationale for everything that I purchase, and more-so when the purchase requires any commitment of time and effort. You seem to think it unreasonable of me to ask for concrete examples, as if that's some sort of disparagement ... I suggest, if it strikes you that way, there may be some mental conflict in your own decisions. But in any event, it has no bearing on my questions or evaluation.

Then you don't understand how to factor probability in one's judgement.

Of course that's not enough - we had that example prior to my posting of the question. I've had about enough of people here disparaging the completely logical and sound question in their "advocacy", and I'll leave you all to it.
You have spent far more time posting in this thread than I do in two weeks of plugging in and unplugging 2 cameras for charging plus transferring videos I want to keep and deleting the others.
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Old 04-08-19, 01:57 PM
  #139  
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It is clear from the sad parade of evidence, that camera use and the reliance on camera data to validate a minority of cyclists ego's that these cameras are a menace! I have no hope (because I don't own one) of a camera proving that it was the motorist at fault. A notable figure in the recumbent cycling community on our West coast and the owner of one of the few recumbent oriented cycle shops had a serious accident with a car that left her grievously injured but alive. She had no camera. She was ruled partially at fault and ordered to pay damages of over $4000.00. That amount pales into insignificance to the cost of her own hospital bills. The cycling community rallied around her and paid all her expenses but she had lasting physical issues from the accident and lost control of her enterprise, and a year or two after the accident she took her own life. I hear that story and my reaction is ... "I need to stay focused and treat all intersections with extreme caution". A camera owner hears that story and thinks "that wouldn't happen to me, my camera would show who really was at fault.

And? Would that take care of the TBI? The internal organ damage? The orthopedic and reconstructive surgery? Maybe the money, but my standards for being made whole are a LOT higher than many peoples. So... 45 ish years in with nothing serious in my accident record. Realistically I've got 5 years of good riding left till I have to go to three wheels and e-assist. In the meantime, if NOT having a camera keeps making me THINK about what I'm doing every minute I'm out there. It's worth it not to have one. Some of the best money I've never spent. FWIW. Serious question, and not at all rhetorical: does anyone else besides me think the motorcyclist in the earlier videos posted could have avoided T-boning that van? I don't know, I think some answers to that question could take this thread in a more productive direction.
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Old 04-08-19, 02:02 PM
  #140  
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Which model?

I just put a camera on my dash. Too many idiots cut in front then slamming on the brakes hoping for a payday I guess (Utah mostly weirdly enough). But back to the question at hand. Which camera would you suggest? I've got an eBike with a 5v USB outlet so that's one less hassle.
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Old 04-08-19, 02:36 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
It is clear from the sad parade of evidence, that camera use and the reliance on camera data to validate a minority of cyclists ego's that these cameras are a menace! I have no hope (because I don't own one) of a camera proving that it was the motorist at fault. A notable figure in the recumbent cycling community on our West coast and the owner of one of the few recumbent oriented cycle shops had a serious accident with a car that left her grievously injured but alive. She had no camera. She was ruled partially at fault and ordered to pay damages of over $4000.00. That amount pales into insignificance to the cost of her own hospital bills. The cycling community rallied around her and paid all her expenses but she had lasting physical issues from the accident and lost control of her enterprise, and a year or two after the accident she took her own life. I hear that story and my reaction is ... "I need to stay focused and treat all intersections with extreme caution". A camera owner hears that story and thinks "that wouldn't happen to me, my camera would show who really was at fault.

And? Would that take care of the TBI? The internal organ damage? The orthopedic and reconstructive surgery? Maybe the money, but my standards for being made whole are a LOT higher than many peoples. So... 45 ish years in with nothing serious in my accident record. Realistically I've got 5 years of good riding left till I have to go to three wheels and e-assist. In the meantime, if NOT having a camera keeps making me THINK about what I'm doing every minute I'm out there. It's worth it not to have one. Some of the best money I've never spent. FWIW. Serious question, and not at all rhetorical: does anyone else besides me think the motorcyclist in the earlier videos posted could have avoided T-boning that van? I don't know, I think some answers to that question could take this thread in a more productive direction.
A truly twisted view of camera use.

Maybe these folks that you posted about would find a camera useful:
https://www.bikeforums.net/19870454-post1.html



.
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Last edited by CB HI; 04-08-19 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 04-08-19, 02:40 PM
  #142  
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OK, don't know anything about mini-cams, helmet mounts, power supplies, rear view vs. forward view, or adaptability to light conditions, but I do know myself. If I started fiddling with cameras during my rides, one of two things is going to happen--I'll cut into my ride time while futzing with them, or I'll get so distracted trying to keep them working while I'm riding that I'll end up plowing into the back end of a car.

More power to you who are keeping them working, but I'll take a hard pass.
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Old 04-08-19, 02:54 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
OK, don't know anything about mini-cams, helmet mounts, power supplies, rear view vs. forward view, or adaptability to light conditions, but I do know myself. If I started fiddling with cameras during my rides, one of two things is going to happen--I'll cut into my ride time while futzing with them, or I'll get so distracted trying to keep them working while I'm riding that I'll end up plowing into the back end of a car.

More power to you who are keeping them working, but I'll take a hard pass.
Turn them on before you start pedaling and turn them off after you stop pedaling. If you still believe you will crash yourself into something, you should try porch sitting as your new sport/activity. Just be careful not to crash into the porch door.
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Old 04-08-19, 03:13 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Something worked once, somewhere, at some time in the past ... there fore it is a proven necessity. I got you.
Can you quote the post where someone in this thread said it was a necessity?

Also, what's your threshold for how much something might help before you decide it's worth it, even if it's only other people doing it?
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Old 04-08-19, 05:34 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by CB HI
Turn them on before you start pedaling and turn them off after you stop pedaling. If you still believe you will crash yourself into something, you should try porch sitting as your new sport/activity. Just be careful not to crash into the porch door.

I'm fine, thanks, I'm a damn good rider. I just don't want to think about one more doo-dad strapped to my bike, and I really hate having stuff on my helmet. And I have a pretty nifty suggestion where you can stick your porch door.
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Old 04-08-19, 05:43 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I'm fine, thanks, I'm a damn good rider. I just don't want to think about one more doo-dad strapped to my bike, and I really hate having stuff on my helmet. And I have a pretty nifty suggestion where you can stick your porch door.
C'mon, keep it classy, I know you can ...
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Old 04-08-19, 05:54 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
C'mon, keep it classy, I know you can ...

It's as classy as the insult I was responding to.
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Old 04-08-19, 05:55 PM
  #148  
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For the few that have really caught the unhealthy, inbred, illogical spirit of this thread, I thank you for your hilarious posts.

For those of you taking it seriously, I thank you for your even more hilarious posts.
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Old 04-08-19, 06:09 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
For the few that have really caught the unhealthy, inbred, illogical spirit of this thread, I thank you for your hilarious posts.

For those of you taking it seriously, I thank you for your even more hilarious posts.

I'm advocating for 24 hour body-cam coverage because... Well, one never knows.
Video cameras have revolutionized everything, so why not wear them while eating peanuts? Someone could climb in the window and give you such a clunk on the head, and if there was no video, who would believe it? "You got up too fast from the peanuts and bumped your head" they'd say, and then they'd take away your peanuts.

It's a simple choice really. Wear a body cam or give up peanuts.
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Old 04-08-19, 08:25 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I'm advocating for 24 hour body-cam coverage because... Well, one never knows.
Video cameras have revolutionized everything, so why not wear them while eating peanuts? Someone could climb in the window and give you such a clunk on the head, and if there was no video, who would believe it? "You got up too fast from the peanuts and bumped your head" they'd say, and then they'd take away your peanuts.

It's a simple choice really. Wear a body cam or give up peanuts.
Or wear a Styrofoam head clunk protection device 24/7, ya never know, ya know, when it might play a "small part" in saving your life!
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