Best Aluminum Road Wheels?
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4416 Post(s)
Liked 4,871 Times
in
3,015 Posts
For sure he would have been referring to wheel weight vs aero. For amateur riders 6% is usually around the point where lightweight wheels begin to offer a marginal advantage over deeper section aero wheels. For pro riders it can be as high as 10% inclines due to their higher power/speed.
Likes For PeteHski:
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4416 Post(s)
Liked 4,871 Times
in
3,015 Posts
Well now…weight has no direct effect on time, but weight does have a direct effect on speed up a climb. It seems to me it makes more sense to talk about weight and speed; 10kg sitting on the road is 10kg sitting on the road regardless of how long you look it. It’s only once the speed component— i.e. time over distance— that 10kg translates into anything.
Since we are being pedantic, speed = distance over time, not the inverse you stated above. Time over distance is actually exactly how I would frame the effects of weight on a climb.
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,799
Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,026 Times
in
723 Posts
Top for me would be a velocity aileron which is a 28mm deep, 19mm internal width rim so it pairs nicely with a 25c tire, alloy nipples, pillar wing21 spokes with a chris king r45 disc hub, 28h rear, could go 24h front. You don't specify disc vs rim but I'd assume a new build to be disc. The wing21 spokes are 2.2 at the hub so an all day go anywhere wheel but with a lighter weight aero profile so good for speed, and kings are light and fast, and on steep downhills will coast as fast as you want to go. Not a prebuilt but as lock solid as any and should be fairly light.
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 2,751
Bikes: Merlin Extra Light, Orbea Orca, Ritchey Outback,Tomac Revolver Mountain Bike, Cannondale Crit 3.0 now used for time trials.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times
in
34 Posts
I would say Campy Zonda. For about 400 Euro in rim brake wheels, you can't go wrong
#56
TeeOhPea 2tha DeeOhGee
I have to be pedantic and point that the sun doesn't actually rise anywhere, rather it remains fixed and we rotate around it.
Likes For MaxKatt:
#57
Senior Member
All of the aero vs. weight analysis completely misses the 'elephant in the room': that during real performance riding (money is at stake), you are drafting 90+% of the time. Sure, if you are on a flat road breaking the wind, then aero matters, as you are struggling with minute-long 500+ W pulls. But most of time you are comfortably sheltered in the back coasting along at 100 W or less. So aero anything doesn't matter.
But the few seconds per hour that really really matter are during short punchy climbs and accelerations out of corners. You are completely maxed out and hanging on for dear life, and you have to bridge the 10 foot gap within the next 2 seconds, or you are riding solo into the wind for the next hour.
This is where wheel rotating inertia is critical, and the lightest possible wheel for the win: low-profile carbon tubulars of course. No discs - obviously.
But the few seconds per hour that really really matter are during short punchy climbs and accelerations out of corners. You are completely maxed out and hanging on for dear life, and you have to bridge the 10 foot gap within the next 2 seconds, or you are riding solo into the wind for the next hour.
This is where wheel rotating inertia is critical, and the lightest possible wheel for the win: low-profile carbon tubulars of course. No discs - obviously.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4416 Post(s)
Liked 4,871 Times
in
3,015 Posts
All of the aero vs. weight analysis completely misses the 'elephant in the room': that during real performance riding (money is at stake), you are drafting 90+% of the time. Sure, if you are on a flat road breaking the wind, then aero matters, as you are struggling with minute-long 500+ W pulls. But most of time you are comfortably sheltered in the back coasting along at 100 W or less. So aero anything doesn't matter.
But the few seconds per hour that really really matter are during short punchy climbs and accelerations out of corners. You are completely maxed out and hanging on for dear life, and you have to bridge the 10 foot gap within the next 2 seconds, or you are riding solo into the wind for the next hour.
This is where wheel rotating inertia is critical, and the lightest possible wheel for the win: low-profile carbon tubulars of course. No discs - obviously.
But the few seconds per hour that really really matter are during short punchy climbs and accelerations out of corners. You are completely maxed out and hanging on for dear life, and you have to bridge the 10 foot gap within the next 2 seconds, or you are riding solo into the wind for the next hour.
This is where wheel rotating inertia is critical, and the lightest possible wheel for the win: low-profile carbon tubulars of course. No discs - obviously.
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,307 Times
in
2,949 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
#60
Senior Member
Don't let the bike industry marketers and sales drones adversely steer your decision here. They are always attempting to facilitate customer bike inventory turnover, and press expensive purchasing decisions. I service many bikes every week, and you also do not want to buy something that irrecoverably binds you to your shop for formerly simple do-it-yourself maintenance items. As does hydraulic disc brakes and internal cable routing, and the new chaos of proprietary parts and 'standards'.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4416 Post(s)
Liked 4,871 Times
in
3,015 Posts
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
All of the aero vs. weight analysis completely misses the 'elephant in the room': that during real performance riding (money is at stake), you are drafting 90+% of the time. Sure, if you are on a flat road breaking the wind, then aero matters, as you are struggling with minute-long 500+ W pulls. But most of time you are comfortably sheltered in the back coasting along at 100 W or less. So aero anything doesn't matter.
But the few seconds per hour that really really matter are during short punchy climbs and accelerations out of corners. You are completely maxed out and hanging on for dear life, and you have to bridge the 10 foot gap within the next 2 seconds, or you are riding solo into the wind for the next hour.
This is where wheel rotating inertia is critical, and the lightest possible wheel for the win: low-profile carbon tubulars of course. No discs - obviously.
But the few seconds per hour that really really matter are during short punchy climbs and accelerations out of corners. You are completely maxed out and hanging on for dear life, and you have to bridge the 10 foot gap within the next 2 seconds, or you are riding solo into the wind for the next hour.
This is where wheel rotating inertia is critical, and the lightest possible wheel for the win: low-profile carbon tubulars of course. No discs - obviously.
Although if you want the fastest-possible accelerating wheel, I'd say it would be disc - a few more spokes on the front and a bit more weight on the hubs and frameset, but the rim could be lighter, which should matter more.
Mind you, my 49mm rim brake rims are 330g... How light do you need to go?
#65
Senior Member
Because drafting or not at reasonable speeds you're fighting aero drag so anything that reduces you're effort, even in a pack, will result in less fatigue later.
The fastest accelerating wheel will either be the one with lowest drag or lightest weight (regardless of how that weight is distributed) depending on rider power and road grade. The same as for riding at constant speed since bicycle accelerations are so low.
The fastest accelerating wheel will either be the one with lowest drag or lightest weight (regardless of how that weight is distributed) depending on rider power and road grade. The same as for riding at constant speed since bicycle accelerations are so low.
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
Because drafting or not at reasonable speeds you're fighting aero drag so anything that reduces you're effort, even in a pack, will result in less fatigue later.
The fastest accelerating wheel will either be the one with lowest drag or lightest weight (regardless of how that weight is distributed) depending on rider power and road grade. The same as for riding at constant speed since bicycle accelerations are so low.
The fastest accelerating wheel will either be the one with lowest drag or lightest weight (regardless of how that weight is distributed) depending on rider power and road grade. The same as for riding at constant speed since bicycle accelerations are so low.
As for aero drag having a significant effect on acceleration, that's an interesting question, but it would only apply at higher speeds...
And the distribution of mass in a wheel has no effect on acceleration?! Lol. You must be smoking better stuff than me...
Last edited by Kimmo; 08-12-23 at 05:36 PM.
#67
Senior Member
Likes For asgelle:
#69
Senior Member
Let's go back to 2001 shall we? https://capovelo.com/ounce-off-wheel...eight-crucial/
Because some people progressed beyond kindergarten?
Because some people progressed beyond kindergarten?
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
Come to think of it, aero aside, if the pack's speed only varies slowly, it might consume some effort to maintain a more consistent speed on really light wheels, and of course it does take more effort to maintain a given speed on a faster-accelerating bike. Lots of variables.
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,451
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4416 Post(s)
Liked 4,871 Times
in
3,015 Posts
Swiss Side ran some calculations on various course profiles.
https://www.swissside.com/blogs/news/aero-vs-weight
Wheel rotational inertia is trivial. You can spin these things up with your little finger on a stand.
Last edited by PeteHski; 08-12-23 at 08:33 PM.
Likes For PeteHski:
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,763
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
The thing is that the wheel mass is relatively low and bike acceleration is also a small value, even when sprinting. So when you do the calculations the power requirement to spin up the wheels is not very significant compared to the total mass of the bike and rider. It’s very trivial when comparing wheel sets that differ by only a few hundred grams.
Swiss Side ran some calculations on various course profiles.
https://www.swissside.com/blogs/news/aero-vs-weight
Wheel rotational inertia is trivial. You can spin these things up with your little finger on a stand.
Swiss Side ran some calculations on various course profiles.
https://www.swissside.com/blogs/news/aero-vs-weight
Wheel rotational inertia is trivial. You can spin these things up with your little finger on a stand.
#73
Newbie
Let me stir things up. For optimal aero the rim's external width should be slightly wider than the tire's actual width. A 23c tire is about 25mm wide on a moderately wide rim. I am not sure what aluminum wheel is wide enough (the closest I have seen is an Orinii rim at 25mm width 30mm depth and the 3T Accelero pro at 23mm width and 37mm depth).
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
In other words, the old "rotating weight is more important than frame weight" is true in theory, but is actually trivial in practice given the actual weight differences in rims and the actual accelerations on the ride. I think I remember reading this - maybe on this forum - a while ago. Seems to make sense to me.
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,547
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1529 Post(s)
Liked 718 Times
in
510 Posts
Let me stir things up. For optimal aero the rim's external width should be slightly wider than the tire's actual width. A 23c tire is about 25mm wide on a moderately wide rim. I am not sure what aluminum wheel is wide enough (the closest I have seen is an Orinii rim at 25mm width 30mm depth and the 3T Accelero pro at 23mm width and 37mm depth).