sidpost

I currently ride an old-school Surly Krampus but, I find as I get older having a bit of pedal assist to keep me out of a Side-by-Side is a good thing when a pickup won't work (mud, trees, etc.). I need to check fences and check livestock and don't want to tear up my pasture with a pickup or tractor when it is wet or soft so, I'm thinking a good e-bike might be better for me than a more expensive SxS or ATV.

I do fine with 27.5" tires and, don't really want to go bigger than that as 29's can be problematic on some bicycles I have tried. I prefer a 'throttle' but, could work with a good pedal assist drive train. The whole rear hub vs. mid-drive seems like a toss-up for cost and complexity reasons.

I work with solar power and high-powered flashlights so, charging and batteries matters to me. I don't want some random Chinese P.O.S. for a great price that won't last over time. I don't expect it to have the lifespan of a car but, I want 3 good years of battery, drivetrain, and bicycle life.

Ideally, it will have hydraulic brakes and mid-grade or better Shimano gear. I think I want a Bosch e-bike drivetrain but, I am open to other ideas. I am familiar with Yamaha bicycles but, don't really want a $5K or more bicycle either. Less than $2K would be great but, I will spend more for good reasons if I need to. Sort of a "pay once, cry once" shopper as the most expensive thing is to buy a product that won't work and then replace it with what you should have bought to begin with!

TIA,
Sid

p.s. Dallas, Texas is the closest big city to me but, I also travel a lot so other locations with good reasons could be visited!

veganbikes

You won't find a decent electric bike with everything you want for under 2k. If you want a good Bosch Equipped bike I would look in that 4k on up range and get something that is good and reliable. I would look at a mountain bike for what you are looking at and Bulls would be a good place to start. I am unsure what is near you or where you travel but there is a lot of good to be had around the country.

I will say Trek bikes are fine but you do pay for their name and get less. Obviously though if a Trek store is nearer to you go with Trek as at least they have decent support on their stuff and Bosch has excellent support all over. However if you can find something different you will get a better deal generally. I would say if you had the budget go for Riese and Müller but I own one and love it and it is certainly an ideal machine for lots of usage and they are well built and well spec'd not always high end but good quality stuff that is likely to last a long time. However you should test ride some stuff and figure out what is best for you.

In terms of Shimano, Deore 10 speed or above don't go below. Shimano and Magura would be the ideal for Hydraulic brakes but TRP/Tektro are decent and even SRAM these days is fine but I would avoid other off brands. Yamaha from what I know of them is not good service maybe that has changed in the past year but Bosch is Bosch for a reason.

I like the "pay once, cry once" I have been the pay several times and cry even more on occasions and hate to do that when I got my second e-bike that I actually put the time into and have ridden a bunch I did the pay once and it paid off it is the most expensive bike I have owned but I have put a ton of miles on it in a short period of time and I really wouldn't want to change it for anything beyond a fully custom built bike that currently doesn't exist in the form I want.

2old

It's a great time to buy a bike with dealers seemingly overloaded with inventory. You should be able to locate a hardtail Giant, Specialized or Trek (probably a 2023) in the neighborhood of $2500, (maybe not; I haven't been keeping up with local prices) and it will have a "safe" battery.

MarcusT

It might be difficult to find a Bosch drivetrain for less than 2k. And it will definitely not have a throttle.
To keep costs minimal, stay with the less powerful line of Bosch.
The Gen 4 CX will cost you. If you don't have steep hills or carrying a heavy load, go with the active line and a 500wh battery, you may find a bargain.
You will also want the widest tires possible- 2.6", not only for better traction on soft surfaces, but they handle the extra weight and use lower air pressure

Kai Winters

I've had the extreme displeasure of working on several 'farm use' ebikes this season and don't recommend them at all. They are not built for the hard use/abuse they will encounter.
The ones I worked on were used daily and ridden through the fields to get where they had to go. Because of this, and wet, muddy fields, the moisture, mud and manure infiltrated the battery box...no battery box is sealed enough to prevent some sort of intrusion under these conditions...and corroded the connections ruining the battery. To make matters worse the owners did not bother to hose down their bikes after use and just left them wet, muddy and manure covered until used again and then complete failure.
The bike brand refused to warranty anything declaring use beyond the 'normal' use of said ebike. We agreed...
The bike owner blamed us...of course...and we eventually had to ask him to leave the shop and not bring us any more bikes...he did not buy the bike froam us.
We no longer work on bikes in this condition...he never bothered to clean off the sh i t when he brought it to us, expecting us to...we did and charged him for it.

I suggest buying a gas powered mini bike or other small motor bike. They are, in the long run, more dependable and far easier to get parts for.
We are finding it more and more difficult to find the correct replacement parts...electronic parts, controllers, batteries, etc....for non bike shop ebikes...meaning internet purchased...We have decided to no longer perform any electrical/electronic service on any internet purchased...meaning non bike brand ebike...ebike that comes our way. This will have an impact on our service but honestly we lose so many hours searching the internet for parts for these crap ebikes that we lose money on every service repair as we find it difficult to charge for the time spent searching for parts that generally no longer exist.

Good luck with whatever you do...

2old

KW, thanks for the interesting input. It seems as though your shop sells Specialized, and if so, are any of their models useful in this function? Your comment about ICE bikes makes a lot of sense since on private property many of the advantages of an ebike relative to insurance and licensing aren't pertinent.

Kai Winters

Yes we are a "Specialized" shop as well as KHS, etc. but I would not recommend any ebike...bike shop or internet...for the hard use a 'farm bike' is going to encounter. But again I don't have a monkey in the circus so do as you will.

2old

I'm in socal, land of fruits and nuts, and my interest was academic since the "concrete jungle" doesn't have many farms, although there are many fantastic off road MTB areas, one of which has a herd of wild cows that so far have avoided the "caballeros" who have tried to catch them and probably will some day as the price of beef keeps accelerating here.

veganbikes

I have to semi-disagree with Kai Winters I don't think one has to go gas in this situation. I think one does have to take care of their bike but that is true with anything. If you explain things to people and show them how to use it and take care off it generally the abuse is less likely to happen. Yes it is 100% true if you don't take care of it and leave it covered in mud and manure and all of that it will get everywhere and cause damage but if you clean it and do basic maintenance and bring it in regularly you will be in better shape.

Obviously you had a unique situation and that one happens sometimes you will always have one or two customers who are difficult and don't take care of their bikes and get mad at you because of their issues.

We had a customer family who their son owns the bike it is a bike he bought at the shop it is a cheapie hybrid with tourney, the mother is an accountant who doesn't understand much (there was something on her ticket that we ended up not needing to charge her for kept asking before any money had been exchanged and I had a chance to update the ticket why we are charging her) and the father is well I have no idea what he does but it seems like neither of them communicate with each other. The son seems to be slightly bright but it was a complicated situation that didn't need to be, the son crashed destroyed the fork and front wheel, we replaced the wheel and had quoted them for the fork and sent them an email, the mother approved and someone else in the family sent a smiley face, I let the manufacturer know they want the fork let's get it ordered. The next morning the father calls and says we actually aren't sure if we want to do the fork that seems expensive and is not what you told me would happen (even though it is exactly what I told him would happen) then later that day they paid for the work and today the mother calls and is wondering why are you charging me for this..."because we did the work" but you didn't do that "we did exactly that but technically it would be under a different name but the same price" well ok fine my husband will need to call you and my son will call you but I will bring the bigger car to pick it up. The husband shows up complaining about a basket that was not on the bike when dropped off (but I know the basket as the bike has been in previously) and swears up and down we had the basket and we took off and I told him "no sorry we don't remove anything like that unless we need to access it which in this case we didn't and if we do we give that stuff back and usually mount it back in the same spot unless damaged and we tell you that" and he keeps giving us the B.S. and then he is like I cannot pick up the bike I will have to come back with a bigger car and of course they didn't come back. The son did call but he seems the closest to normalcy out of the family. They are nuts it was a long story, my apologies.

The big point is there will always be that customer who doesn't care but you can always explain things to them and charge them for their neglect and eventually they will either get it or keep coming back and paying. In the case of a bike like that I would say "hose down the bike and get all the poop off of it and I will charge a $65 cleaning fee or I can charge you $350 for cleaning the bike plus the cost of brushes and materials". Then you get money from them to at least cover cleaning and diagnostics (and that diagnostics fee if the work is approved would go towards the bike or kept if not approved) then you put everything in writing like an email or text that way you eliminate the I said you said B.S.and you can easily decline service at any point as well. Sometimes as well you just need another employee to step in and talk with them. I have had to do that many times where people aren't compatible and I had to step in and relieve them and re-assure the customer or get them moved out in a friendly polite manner or just get them outside where you can either defuse or get them gone. There are a lot of tricks and I am sure you, Kai have employed some of them but probably a lot of stuff you may not have thought of or you don't do or your co-workers or shop doesn't do that may help.

sidpost

Sounds like hired hands with no investment in the e-bike so they simply do not care.

My current bicycle is well cared for. And no, I won't spend $2K or more on an e-bike, ride in the rain and cover it in animal manure and let it sit until it corrects into nothing.

sidpost

Would a Gazelle Ultimate C380+ at $4K be a reasonable choice though, it might need some different wheels and tires for soft soil?

The Dutch seem to have very durable bikes based on my time there that have a lot in common with cars in terms of support for the long haul and being reliable for really long periods of time (like years or decades).

For insurance, taxes, and related reasons, a motorcycle just isn't a good option for me. I would also use this e-bike off the farm as well so, it would not see abuse on my farm but might need a bath if I run the fence line with it.

Kai Winters

The farm owners son...

2old

FME (limited), Gazelle produces excellent bikes, but this model looks more like a city bike and not very capable off road (BTW, the bike is $3K at Bike Mart). If you decide to purchase, make sure the replacement tires will fit (they may be too wide for the frame) and the ground clearance is adequate for checking fences. I think an eMTB would be better for you.

veganbikes

The Ultimate C380+ is a great bike but it is a city bike. I would check with Gazelle and see if you can get any info on max tire size and what the max fork size is. Potentially if you can find something with the same axle to crown or very close in more travel you could make it all work but then again you would be spending a lot and adding complication that isn't needed when you could seek a similar bike with the front fork you want.

However the Enviolo and belt would be low to kind of no maintenance and perfect for hosing off.

If I hadn't gotten my current Supercharger2 Rohloff or I was looking for another e-bike at a lower cost the Ultimate C380+ would be high on the list especially in the mid to be easier to get on and off in more casual clothes.

Leisesturm

O.p. is being extremely contrary if they imagine they can get a 'quality', cry once, loaded with current braking and Bosch technology for "under $2K". Not happening. A gas powered mini-bike is exactly what they need with that budget. And that is not all bad. Li-ion batteries do take some TLC and o.p. (forgive me) doesn't sound like they have the patience for the EV learning curve.

MarcusT

Still, I wouldn't base a bike buying decision on one case.
I do tune ups for friends and colleagues and I've seen some pretty nasty bikes with completely dry bearings and chains so caked they were hard to bend, I won't tell them to get rid of their bikes

MarcusT

If you're willing to double your purchase price then that opens up a whole new world. Get an MTB. I believe you do not need full suspension.
Giant, Bulls and Cube have some nice models for much less than $4k
And again, I suggest you get the widest tires possible

Kai Winters

Not talking about the mechanicals on an ebike...old technology that can take a beating.
Talking about the electricals...they are not 'sealed' units thus are prone to moisture infiltration and if that 'moisture' also has manure, etc. within it is corrosive and will degrade and end many of the electrical components life far too early. I'm not making this sh i t up...literally...I've seen the ick inside the battery housing and corrosion it caused rendering the battery dead. We could not get a matching battery from the maker as they don't make that specific style any more and the new ones don't work with this models electronics. In addition the maker voided the warranty due to the nature of the failure...manure, etc...
But in the end I don't care what anyone does. It's your money and choice. But beware it is likely that many bike shops, especially small shops, won't be working on these ebikes...but again I don't care what you do.

sidpost

I have been using off-grid solar for ~8 years with both lead acid batteries and LiFePo4 batteries. I also run flashlights with Li-On batteries that draw up to 40A without voltage sag that will get a flashlight hot enough to raise blisters if you hand hold them too long or touch it before it cools down.

My travel trailer runs a little bit of solar as well but, is a pretty basic system. Probably closer to an e-bike in terms of charging though.

My e-bike knowledge is extremely limited at the moment. This is why I am here so I can be more informed and make a smarter decision. With what I have learned here and some searching I did, I realized $2K wasn't really enough to get the features and qualities I wanted. While I don't want to spend $4K on an e-bike, I really don't want to spend $2k and then $4K when it doesn't work out!!!

sidpost

Back before I bought my Surly, I tried some full-suspension bicycles and I really did not like them for my type of riding. I'm not doing downhill racing and stuff like that so, a rigid rear and good fork suspension was the sweet spot for me.

From those two, which models in particular should I start looking at? The Gates belt and VARIO (CVT-like) gearing seem like good attributes for me. In terms of tires, I think something in the 2.5"~3+" range is probably the sweet spot for me in terms of mixed riding.

sidpost

I'm not working or living on a dairy or hog farm where large quantities of manure are normally encountered. And I am in total agreement with the corrosive effects of manure and urine on things in general.

In terms of water (and other things) infiltration, don't these bicycles have a basic rating for water intrusion like most electronics?

2old

As far as I've perceived, when manufacturers provide information about water intrusion, they state the bikes can be ridden in a light rain, but definitely not a deluge, and the system can't be submerged.

Kai Winters

In general...nope...perhaps 'water resistant' but honestly what does that really mean???
Again, I don't have any monkeys in this service but the shop, where I work, services likely well over 100 ebikes annually and at least one third have failed electronics and for most we could not find replacement parts...the electronics...be it a battery or the control interface...they fail and can't be replaced...we have repaired some because we have a guy...not me, I have no clue how to work on the electronics...that is amazing. He has been able to trace failed bits and sometimes was able to find a part that had a part that could be removed and put in place of the failed part but it took hours of trouble shooting for which he was paid but the customer was not billed of billed very little because the owner didn't want to charge an hourly fee...which caused financial loss and as a result no longer working on them...what a pain overall.
In short I recommend buying a gas powered machine...Honda QA50 or a similar small engined bike...they last forever, require little service, easy to find parts, not as expensive...etc.
Or do what you want to and good luck...

PS: I do know several hunters that have purchased ebikes over the past year or two and use them to get to their stands and to assist dragging a deer out of the woods. Both, I know of, have spent around $4000 for their bikes...they are camo'd and pretty fancy rigs...they are dead silent so no scaring animals and they have never had a problem with them to date. But they don't use them all the time, take very good care of them, don't abuse them or use them in abusive conditions, etc. And they are very pricey but they work...I don't know the brand or model

MarcusT

Going with a Gates is going to significantly raise your cost.
I'm not sure if models available in Europe and the USA are the same. But one that fills the bill is the Bulls Copperhead EVO HD 750 Wave. As a work bike I would suggest the step through frame, but as an MTB a top bar would be more durable.. The Cube Reaction is also a valid contender.

sidpost

The Bulls Copperhead EVO HD 750 Wave is the one from that brand that caught my attention. I can get one of them for ~$3k locally.

The Cube line is still being investigated.