What is 410 steel bicycle tubing?
06-16-19, 03:58 PM
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What is 410 steel bicycle tubing?
I recently bought a 1986 Raleigh Sport that is designated as "all steel Raleigh 410 tubing". What is that?
I've seen one post that said it's the same as what is now referred to as "hi-ten" steel. Is this correct?
Thanks!
I've seen one post that said it's the same as what is now referred to as "hi-ten" steel. Is this correct?
Thanks!
06-16-19, 06:26 PM
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Most likely. The numbers usually refer to the metallurgical mix in the tubing but that Asian bike might just have a sticker so it has something to proclaim. As we used to say about some bikes, "All the CroMo is in the sticker." However, the Google tells us that 410 is stainless but I doubt your bike is made of that.
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06-16-19, 07:46 PM
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Most likely. The numbers usually refer to the metallurgical mix in the tubing but that Asian bike might just have a sticker so it has something to proclaim. As we used to say about some bikes, "All the CroMo is in the sticker." However, the Google tells us that 410 is stainless but I doubt your bike is made of that.
06-17-19, 03:37 PM
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They don't even spec the tubing in the catalog, so it's a good bet that they used straight-gauge high-tensile steel for the Sports model. As they had for decades and decades before. 
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06-17-19, 05:51 PM
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So this 410 stuff is probably the same run-of-the-mill tubing that was always used on the Sports?
06-17-19, 06:05 PM
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06-17-19, 06:14 PM
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Most of the old Raleigh 3 speeds were 1020, 2030, and possibly 1040 steel.
1020 is a low carbon (0.20%), low nickel steel. The 20xx series are higher nickel alloys with more carbon (0.30% for 2030, 0.40% for 2040). The 41xx series are chrome molybdenum alloys (with 4130 being what most "chro-mo" frames use).
All steel alloys basically have the same density (weight per cc). What changes is strength. The 1020 steels are down around 410 MPa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this may be where the "410" designation comes from the 20xx steels around 480 MPa, and 4130 is around 590 MPa. As strength goes up, tube walls can be made thinner which makes the frame lighter. In theory a straight gauge 4130 frame can be 43% lighter than 1020 and 23% lighter than 2030. In actuality, the "high-ten" frames were often over-built for durability and to allow for steel quality variation, so two or more times the weight of a 4130 frame is not uncommon.
1020 is a low carbon (0.20%), low nickel steel. The 20xx series are higher nickel alloys with more carbon (0.30% for 2030, 0.40% for 2040). The 41xx series are chrome molybdenum alloys (with 4130 being what most "chro-mo" frames use).
All steel alloys basically have the same density (weight per cc). What changes is strength. The 1020 steels are down around 410 MPa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this may be where the "410" designation comes from the 20xx steels around 480 MPa, and 4130 is around 590 MPa. As strength goes up, tube walls can be made thinner which makes the frame lighter. In theory a straight gauge 4130 frame can be 43% lighter than 1020 and 23% lighter than 2030. In actuality, the "high-ten" frames were often over-built for durability and to allow for steel quality variation, so two or more times the weight of a 4130 frame is not uncommon.
Last edited by dedhed; 06-17-19 at 06:20 PM.
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06-17-19, 07:51 PM
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I like the way you think, @dedhed.
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06-17-19, 08:02 PM
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Most of the old Raleigh 3 speeds were 1020, 2030, and possibly 1040 steel.
1020 is a low carbon (0.20%), low nickel steel. The 20xx series are higher nickel alloys with more carbon (0.30% for 2030, 0.40% for 2040). The 41xx series are chrome molybdenum alloys (with 4130 being what most "chro-mo" frames use).
All steel alloys basically have the same density (weight per cc). What changes is strength. The 1020 steels are down around 410 MPa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this may be where the "410" designation comes from the 20xx steels around 480 MPa, and 4130 is around 590 MPa. As strength goes up, tube walls can be made thinner which makes the frame lighter. In theory a straight gauge 4130 frame can be 43% lighter than 1020 and 23% lighter than 2030. In actuality, the "high-ten" frames were often over-built for durability and to allow for steel quality variation, so two or more times the weight of a 4130 frame is not uncommon.
1020 is a low carbon (0.20%), low nickel steel. The 20xx series are higher nickel alloys with more carbon (0.30% for 2030, 0.40% for 2040). The 41xx series are chrome molybdenum alloys (with 4130 being what most "chro-mo" frames use).
All steel alloys basically have the same density (weight per cc). What changes is strength. The 1020 steels are down around 410 MPa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this may be where the "410" designation comes from the 20xx steels around 480 MPa, and 4130 is around 590 MPa. As strength goes up, tube walls can be made thinner which makes the frame lighter. In theory a straight gauge 4130 frame can be 43% lighter than 1020 and 23% lighter than 2030. In actuality, the "high-ten" frames were often over-built for durability and to allow for steel quality variation, so two or more times the weight of a 4130 frame is not uncommon.
06-17-19, 08:06 PM
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Besides "410" has more cachet than "The cheap heavy stuff"
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06-17-19, 10:17 PM
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06-18-19, 06:47 AM
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06-18-19, 08:28 AM
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If you build with a higher strength steel , you can use less to do the job (thinner tube wall) but that costs more
And requires a more careful building, slowing production volume.. per hour ..
And requires a more careful building, slowing production volume.. per hour ..
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