Why does everyone feel like they need to rain on my car-lite parade?
04-03-18, 04:55 AM
#26
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I'm far from advertising that I stopped (I think I've told 3-5 people in several months) but you tip your hand in a lot of ways, particularly if you are transitioning from drinking frequently at social gatherings, events, etc. People notice. People ask questions (usually from their own perspective/interest/defense.) I wouldn't say this is a result of carrying around a billboard that says I don't drink, either.
As it applies to bicycling, I get a lot of questions at work about how I could ride year round (they don't necessarily know the car light part). I answer as briefly as possible and usually with a little humor. Being in Minnesota, there is a lot of question around extreme temperatures. I wouldn't say they rain on my parade, but I'm not in the early stages of trying to figure things out anymore, so it doesn't affect me much.
Last edited by davidmcowan; 04-03-18 at 05:02 AM.
04-03-18, 05:03 AM
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When I stopped drinking some people noticed but no one said a negative thing.
Some people have questioned my transport choices, but I take it as a point of personal pride that I make the choices that my values suggest, so no matter what people have said, I never felt belittled.
Some people have questioned my transport choices, but I take it as a point of personal pride that I make the choices that my values suggest, so no matter what people have said, I never felt belittled.
04-08-18, 03:34 AM
#28
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Since being car-free I've been able to drink more!
Not to condone riding drunk, but the cross between one's blood alcohol level and one's ability to transport oneself is less of an intrusive science when cycling, than when driving, if only for the freedom of concern for a ban/fine.
A ride is a good cure for an acute hangover - a drive most certainly is not.
Not to condone riding drunk, but the cross between one's blood alcohol level and one's ability to transport oneself is less of an intrusive science when cycling, than when driving, if only for the freedom of concern for a ban/fine.
A ride is a good cure for an acute hangover - a drive most certainly is not.
04-08-18, 05:15 PM
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Why does everyone feel like they need to rain on my car-lite parade?
I have in the past posted my experience with discussing a cycling lifestyle with avowed motorists.
I’ve been trying to be car-lite for a few months now, with the ultimate goal of moving someplace where I can be car-free.
I’m slowly getting used to it, but the one thing that is driving me crazy are the people who tell me how impractical I’m being. Or how ridiculous it is to bike everywhere. I constantly get questions like “Well, how areyou planning to get to _____?” or “What if you need to ______?” They like tocome up with scenarios where I would fail at being car-lite or car-free.
I wish people would just see this as a choice I’m making that doesn’treally affect them. Instead, it would be even better if they said “Sounds challenging! Let me know if I can help you.”
I wish people would just see this as a choice I’m making that doesn’treally affect them. Instead, it would be even better if they said “Sounds challenging! Let me know if I can help you.”
Try to look at it from their points of view;to them it really is "crazy" to not have a car. Most people lack the conditions in their lives, minds, and bodies which would permit it. Manypeople are not willing to make the sacrifices which you see as "trade-offs."
You are rejecting their view, also, and are in effect saying to them,"This way is better," which is a tough sell when you roll in soaked and shivering after a particularly bad ride, with terrible weather, worse drivers, and maybe that ever-exciting rainy-day roadside flat.
To a lot of people it Does look crazy….
If you aren't tough enough to deal with the questions ... how are you going to deal with the days when you have ridden too many miles, every piece of cycling gear you own is mud-spattered and soaked, and another three days of near-freezing rain are predicted?
Those people aren't even insulting you---they just don't understand why you have chosen a lifestyle they would find impossible to live themselves.
Have some pity on them.
You are rejecting their view, also, and are in effect saying to them,"This way is better," which is a tough sell when you roll in soaked and shivering after a particularly bad ride, with terrible weather, worse drivers, and maybe that ever-exciting rainy-day roadside flat.
To a lot of people it Does look crazy….
If you aren't tough enough to deal with the questions ... how are you going to deal with the days when you have ridden too many miles, every piece of cycling gear you own is mud-spattered and soaked, and another three days of near-freezing rain are predicted?
Those people aren't even insulting you---they just don't understand why you have chosen a lifestyle they would find impossible to live themselves.
Have some pity on them.
I've had lots of unsolicited comments about my bike commuting to work including people offering me rides or saying "you didn't ride today, did you?" if the weather happens to be bad. A few family members expressed concern.
It's all well-intentioned, and I don't mind it, but it definitely happens without the person having to broach or interject it.
It's all well-intentioned, and I don't mind it, but it definitely happens without the person having to broach or interject it.
…Personally, I find any discussions about cycling with motorists futile, especially those exchanged while en route, often with hostility. When off the bike, e.g. at work they are usually pleasant, but vacuous, for example when I’m called a saint. When they complain, it’s often about cyclists riding two or more abreast, no lights, ninjas, etc…valid complaints IMO.
The most antagonistic remarks though that I try to assuage are taunts about what it would do to the driver if they hit me, most often spoken on the Winter when streets are icy or narrowed by snowbanks. I learned my response from along-ago thread, “When does Hardcore become Stupid?”
The most antagonistic remarks though that I try to assuage are taunts about what it would do to the driver if they hit me, most often spoken on the Winter when streets are icy or narrowed by snowbanks. I learned my response from along-ago thread, “When does Hardcore become Stupid?”
Hardcore becomes stupid when it becomes dangerous...
In each case, it's not just the weather that makes it hardcore or stupid, it's the degree of preparation and knowledge used in dealing with the weather.
In each case, it's not just the weather that makes it hardcore or stupid, it's the degree of preparation and knowledge used in dealing with the weather.
… My cycling reputation, mundane as my cycling might be to the hard-core cyclists, is always a source of amusement and conversation with my friends and acquaintances; e.g. in bad weather, “You didn’t ride your bike today, did you?,” or at fancy social events, “Did you ride your bike here?.” Always asked with amusement and respect.
I in turn often ask people where they live, because invariably I have ridden in their neighborhood, and that question usually sparks an engaging converstion.
One of the nicest compliments I have received at work is that I am credible,and I think my cycling reputation probably supports that image.
I in turn often ask people where they live, because invariably I have ridden in their neighborhood, and that question usually sparks an engaging converstion.
One of the nicest compliments I have received at work is that I am credible,and I think my cycling reputation probably supports that image.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-08-18 at 06:05 PM.
04-08-18, 05:36 PM
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Something tells me people aren’t just coming up to the OP and commenting on the choice to go car light or car free.
More than likely the subject is broached by the OP as a question that solicits opinion. Once opinions have been asked for people that can see no reason for such a change in their life are unlikely to be supportive of the OPs change.
If the goal is to become car light just do it and don’t ask permission.
Once you open a alternative lifestyle to debate that is what you will get,debate.
More than likely the subject is broached by the OP as a question that solicits opinion. Once opinions have been asked for people that can see no reason for such a change in their life are unlikely to be supportive of the OPs change.
If the goal is to become car light just do it and don’t ask permission.
Once you open a alternative lifestyle to debate that is what you will get,debate.
The unsolicited comments that you received weren't negative , nor did they disparage you nor your choice of commuting mode; they certainly weren't raining on your parade, but rather were being friendly and helpful.
Go around preaching and ranting about the virtue of your choices at the same people and antagonizing them and you too might see the same rain on a self created parade.
Go around preaching and ranting about the virtue of your choices at the same people and antagonizing them and you too might see the same rain on a self created parade.
Frankly, I have posted that I would not be inclined to encourage, unless by example (nor discourage) someone to cycle-commute, but if they so chose, I would freely and gladly give any advice...
I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened…
FWIW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’
I would not want the recriminations of a personal endorsement if something bad happened…
FWIW, I’m not advocatin’ against, just sayin’
...My major motivation to ride is not sociopolitical, or environmental, but physical. However, a useful and enjoyable side benefit, it enhances my reputation.
…But environmental concerns just don’t motivate me to ride the miles and extreme weather (though once I was described as having the “smallest carbon footprint of anyone” in the organization where I work.)
I don’t deny any contributions to “Green Living,” that I make, but I don’t tout them.
I don't cycle (or live Car Lite) to enhance my reputation, but it is awesome and distinctive; in a similar vein, I've also got a reputation at work as a good dancer (from various social functions). Both are good things.
I don’t deny any contributions to “Green Living,” that I make, but I don’t tout them.
I don't cycle (or live Car Lite) to enhance my reputation, but it is awesome and distinctive; in a similar vein, I've also got a reputation at work as a good dancer (from various social functions). Both are good things.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-08-18 at 06:00 PM.
04-08-18, 06:12 PM
#31
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So ... Saint Jim from D'uh says, "If you want to live Car-Lite, learn to dance."
That's my take-away.
That's my take-away.
04-08-18, 06:45 PM
#32
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The weird thing is that traffic in NYC is aggressive, but I find it easier to survive than other places.
I'm not sure I'm ready to say NYC drivers are better than in other places, because it may simply be that I understand the dance and know how to do it.
I'm not sure I'm ready to say NYC drivers are better than in other places, because it may simply be that I understand the dance and know how to do it.
As a social ballroom dancer with years of lessons, as well as urban commuter, may I say, "Well said."
There was thread once about rural vs urban cycling, and a concensus was that urban cycling was safer, because of the congestion and slower speeds. Even with heavy traffic, I know the patterns of traffic, the "dance steps," and can anticipate the car's movements.
Earlier on this thread, I wrote: An important aphorism I learned on BF is, "To know where a car is going, watch the front wheels, not the body or hood," though we don't watch our feet when we dance.
There was thread once about rural vs urban cycling, and a concensus was that urban cycling was safer, because of the congestion and slower speeds. Even with heavy traffic, I know the patterns of traffic, the "dance steps," and can anticipate the car's movements.
Earlier on this thread, I wrote: An important aphorism I learned on BF is, "To know where a car is going, watch the front wheels, not the body or hood," though we don't watch our feet when we dance.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-09-18 at 06:01 AM. Reason: Blessing to @Maelochs
04-09-18, 12:14 AM
#33
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To return, however ephemerally, to the theme of the OP: My experience, in decades of commuting (first Boston, then Honolulu), was that people almost always came across as supportive. Typical comments were along the lines of "Please be careful, it's a jungle out there," which was fair enough, or "Gee, I wish I could do what you're doing." For all I know they may have thought that I was off my rocker, but at least they were too civil to say so, so I had no complaints.
Mr. Noglider's comment about NY was spot on in my experience. Drivers might be cutthroat, but if only for that reason they were predictable, so not hard for a cyclist to take appropriate countermeasures. When I commuted in the Boston area in the 70s and 80s it was a different story. People would routinely do stuff like flash their left blinker while trying to cut you off on their right. Jim's advice of watching their front tires was the only viable survival strategy.
In the past few years I have been riding in the Boston area again and I have been interested to observe that things have become much more polished, at least in high-rent districts like Brookline, Back Bay, and Cambridge. My theory is that a lot of the folks who first learned to drive according to the Boston rules have now taken off for the suburbs or other places, and many of the folks driving in Boston now are transplants who learned to drive somewhere in the civilized (driving) world. This is just a conjecture, though.
Mr. Noglider's comment about NY was spot on in my experience. Drivers might be cutthroat, but if only for that reason they were predictable, so not hard for a cyclist to take appropriate countermeasures. When I commuted in the Boston area in the 70s and 80s it was a different story. People would routinely do stuff like flash their left blinker while trying to cut you off on their right. Jim's advice of watching their front tires was the only viable survival strategy.
In the past few years I have been riding in the Boston area again and I have been interested to observe that things have become much more polished, at least in high-rent districts like Brookline, Back Bay, and Cambridge. My theory is that a lot of the folks who first learned to drive according to the Boston rules have now taken off for the suburbs or other places, and many of the folks driving in Boston now are transplants who learned to drive somewhere in the civilized (driving) world. This is just a conjecture, though.
04-09-18, 03:33 AM
#34
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To return, however ephemerally, to the theme of the OP: My experience, in decades of commuting (first Boston, then Honolulu), was that people almost always came across as supportive…
Mr. Noglider's comment about NY was spot on in my experience. Drivers might be cutthroat, but if only for that reason they were predictable, so not hard for a cyclist to take appropriate countermeasures.
When I commuted in the Boston area in the 70s and 80s it was a different story. People would routinely do stuff like flash their left blinker while trying to cut you off on their right. Jim's advice of watching their front tires was the only viable survival strategy.
In the past few years I have been riding in the Boston area again and I have been interested to observe that things have become much more polished, at least in high-rent districts like Brookline, Back Bay, and Cambridge.
My theory is that a lot of the folks who first learned to drive according to the Boston rules have now taken off for the suburbs or other places, and many of the folks driving in Boston now are transplants who learned to drive somewhere in the civilized (driving) world. This is just a conjecture, though.
Mr. Noglider's comment about NY was spot on in my experience. Drivers might be cutthroat, but if only for that reason they were predictable, so not hard for a cyclist to take appropriate countermeasures.
When I commuted in the Boston area in the 70s and 80s it was a different story. People would routinely do stuff like flash their left blinker while trying to cut you off on their right. Jim's advice of watching their front tires was the only viable survival strategy.
In the past few years I have been riding in the Boston area again and I have been interested to observe that things have become much more polished, at least in high-rent districts like Brookline, Back Bay, and Cambridge.
My theory is that a lot of the folks who first learned to drive according to the Boston rules have now taken off for the suburbs or other places, and many of the folks driving in Boston now are transplants who learned to drive somewhere in the civilized (driving) world. This is just a conjecture, though.
Are most avid/experienced cyclists knowledgeable of laws, safety practices?
As a native of the Motor City, with an excellent driver’s ed in high school, a good driving record, especially in Boston for decades, I consider myself well versed.
However IMO, though we share roads with autos, I consider cycling a different modality…
As a native of the Motor City, with an excellent driver’s ed in high school, a good driving record, especially in Boston for decades, I consider myself well versed.
However IMO, though we share roads with autos, I consider cycling a different modality…
My experience is that people drive differently in every city and treat cyclists very differently. The best advice often comes from cyclists that live the closest to you …
The exception here would also be Jim from Boston--anyone that can successfully commute around Boston has my full respect and probably knows howto deal with about every intersection imaginable!
The exception here would also be Jim from Boston--anyone that can successfully commute around Boston has my full respect and probably knows howto deal with about every intersection imaginable!
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-09-18 at 03:46 AM.
04-09-18, 04:08 AM
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And it's not that I don't drink at all; I just don't drink much anymore. A six pack will usually last me 2-4 weeks unless I'm sharing it with others. A fifth of bourbon, likely over a year. With the occasional exception of a whiskey-soaked cotton ball on a toothache or when I burn my mouth on hot pizza, I hardly ever drink anything until a beer with a dinner that it complements well or something more once I'm settled in for the evening, so a lunchtime beer is right out.
04-09-18, 04:56 AM
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…When I commuted in the Boston area inthe 70s and 80s it was a different story. People would routinely do stuff like flash their left blinker while trying to cut you off on their right. Jim's advice of watching their front tires was the only viable survival strategy.
In the past few years I have been riding in the Boston area again and I have been interested to observe that things have become much more polished, at least in high-rent districts like Brookline, Back Bay, and Cambridge.
My theory is that a lot of the folks who first learned to drive according to the Boston rules have now taken off for the suburbs or other places, and many of the folks driving in Boston now are transplants who learned to drive somewhere in the civilized (driving) world. This is just a conjecture, though.
In the past few years I have been riding in the Boston area again and I have been interested to observe that things have become much more polished, at least in high-rent districts like Brookline, Back Bay, and Cambridge.
My theory is that a lot of the folks who first learned to drive according to the Boston rules have now taken off for the suburbs or other places, and many of the folks driving in Boston now are transplants who learned to drive somewhere in the civilized (driving) world. This is just a conjecture, though.
"Close calls and the consequent reactions"
…I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression.
I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”; about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week. See also the sign below, on my commute through Brookline.
…I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression.
I have in the past posted about giving “bicyclist curses,” and “bicyclist blessings”; about 5 blessings a day, and about 3 curses a week. See also the sign below, on my commute through Brookline.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-09-18 at 07:16 AM.
04-09-18, 09:55 AM
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04-09-18, 10:33 AM
#38
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04-22-18, 05:16 PM
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Ask them how much they waste yearly on having a four wheeled vehicle. That should shut them up pretty quick.
04-22-18, 07:44 PM
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Do you find this quick attempt to silence them works best before or after they stumble across you sleeping under the stars every night without the 4 walls that restrain them? And more importantly does it work ever?
04-22-18, 08:38 PM
#41
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Is, 'waste yearly having a four wheeled vehicle' a metaphor for– transportation, seeing the Grand Canyon, having a job, visiting your mom, or… what? Isn't it nice sometimes to have options?
04-22-18, 11:13 PM
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Going to McD's after 10PM. In spite of the "24 hour lobby" signs, the slacker night manager has figured out nobody who can fire him is going to drag their butt up there most nights, so he locks the doors, and the crew pretty much sits around doing their homework. No cars or bikes in the drive-thru, so that pretty well eliminates all the students from the university across the street who would have to drive nearly a mile to get there, (and then a mile back, and hope they didn't lose their good parking space) as opposed to a couple hundred yards of walking. If they have to get in a car, they have better options a couple miles down the road.
04-23-18, 12:30 AM
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Going to McD's after 10PM. In spite of the "24 hour lobby" signs, the slacker night manager has figured out nobody who can fire him is going to drag their butt up there most nights, so he locks the doors, and the crew pretty much sits around doing their homework. No cars or bikes in the drive-thru, so that pretty well eliminates all the students from the university across the street who would have to drive nearly a mile to get there, (and then a mile back, and hope they didn't lose their good parking space) as opposed to a couple hundred yards of walking. If they have to get in a car, they have better options a couple miles down the road.
04-23-18, 06:01 PM
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Going to McD's after 10PM. In spite of the "24 hour lobby" signs, the slacker night manager has figured out nobody who can fire him is going to drag their butt up there most nights, so he locks the doors, and the crew pretty much sits around doing their homework. No cars or bikes in the drive-thru, so that pretty well eliminates all the students from the university across the street who would have to drive nearly a mile to get there, (and then a mile back, and hope they didn't lose their good parking space) as opposed to a couple hundred yards of walking. If they have to get in a car, they have better options a couple miles down the road.
Grab your buddies and jam the drive thru. And then find out who franchises the store, complain to corporate HQ. McDonalds does value their reputation...these folks are wasting time and money, which the company gets part of.
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04-23-18, 08:03 PM
#47
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The whole idea of 'car-lite' is just argument baiting material-- like, pro-life lite, vegan lite, binging lite, adultery lite or, no eating pork...lite. I'm potato chip lite!
04-23-18, 10:08 PM
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If I sell my Miller generator set will I be Miller Lite?
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04-23-18, 11:12 PM
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Yes and that brings us right back to earlier posts. Because no one has a solid definition of what being car light might be. And people that drive less than the average person simply do not care what someone else thinks so they cannot get their parade rained on.
04-24-18, 09:18 AM
#50
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I am guessing an Uber driver must be a car-heavy but they get a pass because their service enables someone else to be car-less?