seedsbelize 

This post concerns tube sets. My 1980 Trek 414 is built with Ishiwata 022 mainframe, and high ten stays and fork.
What are we referring to as high ten? And, what is high ten in general?
Thanks loads

rhenning

High Ten is a cheaper heavier steel. May be seamed. Roger

dweenk

I know that there have been charts posted on the forum detailing the strength of various steels used in frame tubing - I can't locate one right now. Lots of tubing manufacturers used seamed tubing. It was a less expensive method to build a quality tube.

ramzilla

High ten is an abbreviation for high tension steel. A steel alloy that has a modulus of elasticity defined by a yield point of somewhere around 30,000 pounds per square inch. Some high ten frame sets are surprisingly light weight. But, finished bicycles using them are usually on the heavier end of the spectrum. Some of the old Raleigh & Fuji high ten frames from the 70's are really nice items.

Sluggo

"Hi-ten" is typically 1040 steel or something similar, which is about 2/3 the strength of a good chro-mo or manganese-mo (531) steel. So stays and fork would need to be about 50% heavier for the same strength. There would be a greater weight penalty compared to premium tubing if the main tubes were hi-ten because the hi-ten would not be butted. I am sure the Trek rides great in spite of a few extra grams.

JohnDThompson 

Hign-ten steel tubing used in bicycle frames is usually ANSI 1020 or 1040 steel or similar.

Sluggo

From my blog post on the subject.

sheddle

​​​​​​I've seen some hi-ten tourers (frequently with Tange-branded HT) with otherwise quality parts. I think you could get away with good hiten on a bike like that in the 70s.

T-Mar

This is incorrect. The weight saving advantage of a higher strength steel, such as CrMo cannot be put to full advantage in stays and full blades, due to their smaller diameter. Basically, due to their relatively small diameter, they would not have sufficient stiffness. This is, in fact, the reason stays and forks are the prime area of cost reduction. You save the money with minimum impact on the weight.

If you look at the C&V product lines for Tange, you'll see that they spec the exact same seat stays, chain stays and fork blades for Tange #1 , #2 , #3 , #4 and #5 . The same is true for Ishwata 015, 017, 019, 022 and 024, with the exception that 015 and 017 had slightly lighter, more technologically advanced, taper gauge fork blades.

To put things into perspective, if you look at the thickness specs for Ishiawata's and Tange's hi-tensile sets versus their CrMo specs, you'll find the the stays are typically 25% thicker, while the blades are typically 20% thicker. This is far short of 50%. The weight increase for specifying hi-tensile stay and forks, instead of CrMo, is typically less than 1/2 lb.

By specifying hi-tensile stays and forks, the designer gets a lower cost frame at the expense of a small weight gain and the loss of some resiliency. The hidden bonus is the increased rigidity due the thicker steel, which can be desirable in certain applications, such as heavily loaded touring bicycles, bicycles with cantilever or U-Brakes and larger frames. Heaver and/or stronger riders often find tretubi frames with heavier stays and forks to have more acceptable characteristics.

And there were butted hi-tensile main tubes (offered by both Ishiwata and Tange), just like their were plain gauge CrMo and 531 tubesets.

seedsbelize 

Thanks loads.
And I ride 60 cm frames

Sluggo

Good info, T-Mar. I did not look at specs for hi-ten tube sets. Do you have a link?

So bottom line is high-ten stays are a little stiffer (for good or bad), a little heavier (but not as much as i said), and a little less strong where it doesn't matter much. Slightly less-strong fork blades (and steerer?) might matter in a crash, but again, it would not matter much in the life of most bikes.

Unlike Tange, True Temper did offer stays with thinner walls for higher-strength alloys. Traditional Reynolds tubesets also varied stay and blade walls by alloy and purpose, but not so much now (although it is difficult to decipher their catalog).

repechage

"Hi-Ten" steel is as noted a few possibilities, there is no one standard, especially after the marketing dept gets involved.
But it is less expensive.

think of the French way, place the desired tubing transfer on the bike and it will make you FEEL faster.

ramzilla

You can breath new life into old high ten frame bikes (and drop several pounds) by getting rid of the original old chrome steel wheels and installing new aluminum alloy wheels. Mount some modern light weight tubes & tires. Add a new lighter seat post & saddle. Install lighter pedals. AND, BAM!!!! For a couple hundred bucks in parts you've got a bike that can perform miracles. It's true. Be good. Have fun.

steve sumner

high ten, also called high tensile or high tension are terms for steels with a higher carbon content
with designations like 1040 and 2040 as opposed to low carbon steels like 1010 and 1020.
it was common BITD for upper mid-line Euro frames to have 531 main tubes and 2040 forks and stays

J.Higgins 

You guys have got it completely wrong. Here, let me straighten you out...

High Ten steel isnt high tension. Sheesh. How many times do I have to tell you guys that "high ten" is so-named because of the secret handshake that every high-ten owner is obligated to display when meeting another high-ten owner. It all started years ago when the metallurgists responsible for High-Ten began giving each other congratulatory high-fives. For those of you who do not know the secret handshake, its basically two high-fives, one right after another. Two high fives adds up to a high-ten. See? Oh no, the other way isnt approved at all. The holding up of both hands in expectation of getting slapped a "high-ten" is commonly used, but most definitely not the secret handshake, merely a form of handshake that the high-ten has taken over the years. Using this alternate high-ten only shows how noobishly-ignorant someone can be.