cdgeorge

I will upload photos later - it's in bits. Previous owner had from new but left hanging in his shed doing nothing for donkeys years. It looks like a 5 speed touring bike.

cdgeorge

Here are some photos:

branko_76 

yes, worth restoring

but keep it stock

juvela

-----

the MILREMO marked stem is a Philippe model 40.

rear mech about two to three decades later than cycle.
it may be date marked on the backside. first two digits of marking indicate forntight and second two digits annum.




shift lever is a great item.

handsome chainwheel.

pedals appear to be Union model 40U, from Germany as made by Union Frondenberg. they exhibit the economy zince finish. also offered in chrome finish.

headset looks to be a Brampton. suspect it will have floating U-races which take 1/8" ball.

you shall have lots of good fun with this; take your time and enjoy!

"had no planned to make visitation to Yorkshire prior to brekkie.."

-----

SurferRosa

"Worth" "restoring"?

No.

Ever seen the Brady Bunch episode where Greg has to live by his "exact words"?

Insidious C. 

That is a bike that could be a joy to own and to ride even with just a freshening up.

branko_76 

then the question should have been, "is it worthy of being restored?"

rgvg

Is there any advantage to a floating U race?

juvela

-----

design carries with it a measure of self-aligning capacity which ridgid U-race sets such as the Raleigh lack

during servicing one must be prepared when the cascade of 1/8" balls and races comes tumbling out

Thomas D. Cross & Sons Limited of Birmingham ("TDC") also produced sets of this design

-----

cdgeorge

Perhaps I will leave this one - the owner is looking for £50 as it is so, worthy it may be but worth it - I'm not sure.

The top tube of the frame has lots of marks on it - and I didn't really want to respray the whole bike thus losing the original decals. My aim is to restore back a bike to its original state so I'm not sure if that's quite possible with this lovely bike. What do you think? I'm still pondering.

Ideally I would like to spend slightly less on the bike than its final value once serviced and looking pretty. The respray alone will be £85 - good price but - there's still other things to consider. Purchase price plus respray = £130 thus far.

If respraying the bike, I would like to have it the exact same colour (of which I cannot clearly see behind the dirt right now).

Johno59

It's not worth 50 quid and the guy knows it. Throw away the crank It's had it ,same the rear mech, rear block, are the spokes stainless? If not bin them. It is an old Dawes that has been franksnsteined. The bars are stock, the calipers like wise. The seatpost and bottom bracket will pose a serious challenge to be removed and binned. If the rims are English sprint rims keep otw bin them. They are good bikes but you are looking a hundred hours of work in a decent equipped workshop.
They are great comfortable bikes but we're nothing special, even at the top of the range.
Restoration professionally would cost more than £1000 if your lucky.

cdgeorge

Thanks - I think that's the conclusion I was looking for

SurferRosa

Maybe worth overhauling or refurbishing (if your time is ample). I just hate the use of the word, "restore." People don't use it properly.

I'd definitely say, the stem and bars are worth snagging (if free).

Johno59

Don't get me wrong. I love these bikes but they take a lot of work when left like this. The steel is normally good quality if it is before the 1970s - older even better.
If the frame is bent the bike is toast. Dawes is one of the better brands to make the transition to Taiwan a success and as such they make some honest touring bikes but they start at 1000 pounds.
If you have the time and patience your grandkids could ride this bike if stored out of the rain and maintained but otw forget it.
If the seller blasts the seat tube, steerer and BB out without damaging the bike give him 50 quid otw walk away.

Kilroy1988 

At first I assumed you were in the US like most of us are, and in that case I would have said yes, it's worth restoring and putting some money into since it's all there... However, seeing that you're in the UK it's worth noting that such finds are rather commonplace and either much rarer or better condition British bikes from this era can be had without nearly the funds or effort you'd have to put into this Dawes.

I say skip it!

-Gregory

cdgeorge

Yes I'm from the UK - that's Googles fault - I searched for a vintage bike forum and ended up on this one - I didn't realise it was predominantly US - nevertheless I am getting some great responses from you guys over the pond so I may just stick to this forum for the time being.

Poor Mr. Bike - someone says I have to skip you. I guess if I can change his mind and get it for free I can try to remove the BB etc then I might at least put the bike together and just clean it up without investing too much cash into this, and see if it's ride-able at least - them maybe go from there. As you say - it's a good quality steel frame and that may be a good start.

cdgeorge

I don't want to take this thread off track too much but - in my local auction there's a racing bike called a Hi-Gear Light Wave. Anyone ever heard of the manufacturer Hi-Gear before?

Kilroy1988 

It is, indeed. If you just want a project and something to ride it will make an interesting build for sure. If you aren't too concerned about putting more into it than you would get out of it were you to turn around and sell, then give it a go! It's a rather nice Dawes and based on numerous details it seems to be from around the mid-to-late 1960s, which was a good era for quality.

-Gregory

cdgeorge

So why are bikes of better quality around the 60's or 70's? What has declined in bikes since these early years? In fact would it be fair to say that vintage bikes can be far better than their modern equivalents for whatever reason (you wouldn't have thought so with modern technology advances of today)?

merziac

It depends on where you decide your aleagences lie, many here like both, all of the above and much in between.

It can be apples and oranges, I have everything from a 1958 Paramount to a 2020 Strawberry custom with Campy Athena 11 speed.

The biggest thing for me is the C+V aesthetic, love the looks but am getting very used to brifters and have several with them as well as a couple of newer ones too.

cdgeorge

I've gotta admit - I do love the perhaps more elegant and simpler look of bikes from earlier years such as this Dawes Galaxy on eBay right now https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/19362379179...saAiuWEALw_wcB

What perhaps I am looking for is a vintage but fast touring bike - none too complicated and over the top - just comfortable and swift if that makes sense. Perhaps an old bike that would show up a new bike just for a laugh.

I do like the aesthetics of some older bikes - very appealing. Let me give you an example - I don't like the look of this modern bike: https://www.marinbikes.com/gb/bikes/...ement-drop-bar compared to the look of this 1970's bike: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/16417072668...4aAhDhEALw_wcB

Kilroy1988 

I'm talking about the quality of British frame building prior to the "bike boom" that occurred around 1970, when pressure to build immense amounts of bicycle frames in small factories that had previously made only a fraction of that amount, saw the general build quality of many companies decline. In the cases of particular frames sometimes the difference can be startling, as many threads about 1970s Raleighs around here have attested to. I'm referring to things like fine brazing, chrome, and paint work - the quality of craftsmanship, not technological quality.

Almost every time, mid to entry level British racing frames from prior to 1970 will be more finely crafted than their later counterparts, because the British never developed the quality controls necessary for the large-scale manufacturing of frames that commenced after that time. With high-end frames the differences are usually less obvious, as only the most skilled craftsmen built the expensive frames, but that doesn't mean the differences can't be found... A Carlton Professional or Raleigh International from the mid-'70s will likely have some sloppy brazing somewhere or other, and some less than skillfully laid pin stripes or decals.

The most finely built British frames I admire and purchase are top models from the 1950s. Carlton, Hetchins, Claud Butler, Hobbs of Barbican, Holdsworth, Gillott, Ephgrave, etc... Almost every name that was respected in that era of "fancy lugs" built their reputation on quality frame building that is really hard to surpass even to this day. Only the most obsessively built steel frames following some French traditions or more modern concepts are arguably of better quality.

-Gregory

merziac

Quality like beauty can be in the eye of the beholder and very subjective depending on your knowledge, experience, likes, dislikes and so much else.

A good example is chrome socks and lugs, from the 50's thru the 60's there were bikes that had them and bikes that didn't from all over the spectrum, again the 58 Paramount is a good example, no chrome and of course you could have ordered it.

Some of us like it anytime but some purists sometimes call it out on low end bikes as being out of place.

I am always disappointed when a high end bike has none, especially when the brand is/has been known for it in the past.

I actually think it is a very good indicator of potential quality both low and high but you have to develop a sense for it, again like much of this.

You really just have to drill down on this, usually make a couple of questionable purchases, look at dozens of ads, bikes, threads, etc. ad nauseum to get a feel for it.

And of course, we're always here to confuse the issue.

rhm

As to chromed lugs and socks, to me thst is a sign of a factory bike. True hand made frames can have chrome too, of course. But they usually don't.

AliH

https://threespeedhub.com/wp-content/...og-1956-UK.pdf
This might be helpful for identifying stuff - no pictures I'm afraid