dicktill

Hi all,

I'm a slim 69 year old recreational road cyclist, having done over 14k miles since 1999. Never been athletic or fast (average speed is 14-15 mph overall). I do a lot of "medium length" rides, say 25 to 62 miles, with moderate hills (average around 44 feet elevation gain per mile), and have done 22 (imperial) centuries since 1999 including 3 last year. I try to keep my cadence in the 85-95 range (with extremes of 75-105; I'm rarely at either extreme). And I have a triple crank and mountain bike cassette, so lots of granny gears.

I've always said that my legs and lungs limit my speed. I have noticed recently that if I try to increase my speed by 1 or 2 mph from "my normal comfortable" (whether it's on a flat or hill) by pedaling a bit harder (but still spinning), that I have some moderate pain in my anterior tibialis' on both legs. Yet I never have pain in my thighs. So I'm thinking that this is a fit problem, likely due to cleat position or more likely the need for wedges. But perhaps it's bad form? I should add that I've never had a professional fitting ...

What say you?

Thanks, Dick

Carbonfiberboy 

In the muscle or the tendon?

dicktill

Hi Carbonfiberboy,

I guess it is the muscle because it is a large portion of the length from knee to ankle.

Thanks, Dick

Carbonfiberboy 

Well, that's quite odd. Outside my experience. I'd say go get fitted.

What pedal system? Shoes? Do you pull up on the backstroke? Sitting on the saddle normally and pedaling down the road, coast for a bit and put the heel of one of your feet on the pedal and then pedal again. Does your heel touch all the way around? Is there any bend in your knee at the bottom of the stroke?

dicktill

Shimano SPD pedals and some old Performance Bike shoes; been using them for 15 years. But then, this problem may have been around for 15 years too! I knew my legs hurt when I pushed it, but never looked carefully at where they hurt.

A bit, but not heavily.

Will try that tomorrow.

Sounds like something that's long overdue!

Thanks a bunch, Dick

berner

My bike fit has been worked on for about for about 4-5 years and it is now pretty good. The real limitations are due to me being an old man of 75 or 76 (I forget which). Whenever I've had the problem you describe it has been due to pushing the pace with the saddle a bit low. With the saddle a too low, the lower leg has to work harder, raising the toes, to get over the top of the pedal stroke.

dicktill

Cfb: Just took a short ride to try this out. Of course, I found it difficult to keep my heel from slipping off the SPD pedal, but yes I can sort of keep it there for the entire stroke, and my knee is still (very) slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke. Oh, and I tried it (individually) on both sides.

Berner: Based on the above "Cfb test", I don't think the seat is too low.



I did note that the cleats are pretty far forward on these old Performance Bike shoes, and since they were set there many moons ago, I don't recall what the reason for that is. Also note that last year I switched from 175mm to 170mm cranks, and yes the seat has been juggled around (and even changed) a few times. This has been to try to be more comfortable on the bike and also to try to get the "bike/rider" combination a bit more stable, i.e., to be able to ride hands-off. It seems that having the seat a tad further back has helped this a bit, and I changed to an adjustable stem to get the bars up and further back to suit the seat position. I think this leg pain was there previous to all this, but am not positive.

Also, I have just purchased a new set of Giro shoes, so I set the cleats on them further back than on the Performance ones, about in the center of their range of adjustment. I then went for another short test ride. Perhaps they felt a tad better, but a few miles obviously isn't sufficient to tell.

Thanks for advice, and please keep it coming. Oh, I did order some cleat wedges from BikeFit, and I can experiment with them when they come next week.

Carbonfiberboy 

Raise your saddle until with your leg completely locked out, there is just a bit of space between your heel and the pedal. It's hard to do this staticly. You really need to be rolling on the bike, though just rotate the pedals, don't hook up.

Don't pull up on the backstroke, just unweight the pedal. There should still be a tiny bit of weight in the backstroking pedal. Push forward at the top, pull back at the bottom, relax your calf, drop your heels, pedal with the heel cup. Try that with that slightly higher saddle. Might take a cm to get that gap under your heel in the test.

dicktill

WOW, you guys Cfb and Berner) hit it pretty well! I rode 27 miles yesterday (Sat); started out with the seat post raised about 1/4", redid Cfb's test, raised it again another 1/4", etc., until I had raised it a full inch! Felt funny for awhile, but not bad. And maybe I could go another 1/4"? Still had some pains in my anterior tibs, but that could be residual. Today (Sun) I rode another 32 miles, with the same setup, and even less pain. Plus, seems to (maybe?) be a tad faster.

Berner: When I said: above, I had incorrectly assumed that the "Cfb test" was testing for my seat being too high; alas, it was for the seat being too low, just as you suggested; sorry!

Thanks again guys. I'll follow up in a couple of weeks and let you know how it is going.

P.S.: I did try to "roll" my feet inwards a bit on the pedals (obviously tough to do with SPD's), and it seemed like the anterior tib pain decreased/went away with this, so there may also be a component coming from that too, and the possible need for some wedges. I'll try some testing as soon as I get them (if the rain/thunderstorms this coming week permit).

dicktill

update: I have put on some 275 miles since I first brought this up. And since raising the seat significantly and adding the wedges, I have done both a metric century and an imperial century. I am happy to report that virtually all the anterior tibialis pain is gone! Thanks again for your help!

Regards, Dick

berner

Hi again dicktill. Even though I've been continuously refining my bike fit, I still work at it. It seems as if the more riding I do, the more sensitive I become to minor changes. In the last three days I've moved the cleats slightly which necessitated a corresponding change in seat position and I'm now debating whether to try a slightly longer stem. Glad riding has improved for you. Continue to evaluate the fit. Often the fit that was fine in the recent past is not quite as fine with a few more miles under the wheels.

dicktill

Thanks berner, and good luck to you too!

TrillTrax

interesting. thanks for posting!