Though the wheel was invented thousands of years back why did it take so long to inve
12-09-20, 02:09 AM
#26
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It wasn’t just horses.
Wheelbarrows were around much earlier (into antiquity in China, and Middle Ages for Europe). The big multiplier before engines was sail power and there were sail powered wheelbarrows in China where the wind was reliable.
Human power was cheap too. 19 in 20 people were peasant farmers, effectively slaves, in the feudal system. A warship around the 18th century had a crew of 700 and was only 170 feet long
Wheelbarrows were around much earlier (into antiquity in China, and Middle Ages for Europe). The big multiplier before engines was sail power and there were sail powered wheelbarrows in China where the wind was reliable.
Human power was cheap too. 19 in 20 people were peasant farmers, effectively slaves, in the feudal system. A warship around the 18th century had a crew of 700 and was only 170 feet long
12-09-20, 02:38 AM
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Metallurgy. Extruding. Forging. Tooling. Propulsion. Build techniques. And the widespread knowledge such that "support" industries could feed off each other in a chain of production of rising quality and innovation. Takes a lot for that to happen, when whole industries are getting started, when so many of the basis haven't yet come along.
It'd be interesting to see an Unabridged History Of The Wheel book. Something considering all angles and asking those exact questions. Why not sooner? What did innovations depend upon? What advancements depended upon earlier innovations? How much knowledge and skills needed to be developed before certain advancements could occur?
Last edited by Clyde1820; 12-11-20 at 03:44 AM.
12-09-20, 11:18 AM
#28
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The bicycle was waiting for the perfect formula for a chain lube.
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Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
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12-09-20, 01:01 PM
#29
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I'm just responding to the question, not to any of the prior posts. I'll read them when I'm not "working."
I think the reason is that there was no place in the human echosystem for bicycles before the industrialized 19th Century. Before there were widespread carts and horses, there were no roads: you couldn't very well ride a bicycle without roads. (Though some of you guys are certainly doing it now.) Once there were carts and horses, there were roads, but they were pretty basic: dirt, ruts, lots of horse*****. Bicycles and cars came along at the same time, more or less (in geological time :-) ) because there was a need for locomotion without the upkeep of a horse and cart. Kind of like the reason othat Segways and battery powered electric scooters came about: they were intended to fill the interstices between existing transportation.
That's my guess, anyway.
I think the reason is that there was no place in the human echosystem for bicycles before the industrialized 19th Century. Before there were widespread carts and horses, there were no roads: you couldn't very well ride a bicycle without roads. (Though some of you guys are certainly doing it now.) Once there were carts and horses, there were roads, but they were pretty basic: dirt, ruts, lots of horse*****. Bicycles and cars came along at the same time, more or less (in geological time :-) ) because there was a need for locomotion without the upkeep of a horse and cart. Kind of like the reason othat Segways and battery powered electric scooters came about: they were intended to fill the interstices between existing transportation.
That's my guess, anyway.
12-09-20, 01:06 PM
#30
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Origin myth: origin is a myth
A little off-topic, but I don't think the wheel was ever literally invented. We may have evidence of it being used many thousands of years ago, but it was likely being used long before any historical records can be found.
Even rolling a heavy object over a log is a form of wheel and it couldn't have been long after that when a clever caveman realized if they stuck a smaller log through a hollow log, they could make use of it like a rolling pin, for example. Hence, the wheel.
Even rolling a heavy object over a log is a form of wheel and it couldn't have been long after that when a clever caveman realized if they stuck a smaller log through a hollow log, they could make use of it like a rolling pin, for example. Hence, the wheel.
(*Yes, I know "Aborigine" isn't proper, but I don't have time to look up the proper term.)
12-09-20, 02:57 PM
#31
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Roads.
Without a pretty modern mountain bike setup, even the most modern metropolises of yesteryear would not have had good enough streets and roads for what they could have made back then.
Roads were muddy, rutted, covered in thick large planks. Even in cities, the cobbles weren't as worn and smooth as today. Today that's the result of 1000 years of wear and smoothing.
Without a pretty modern mountain bike setup, even the most modern metropolises of yesteryear would not have had good enough streets and roads for what they could have made back then.
Roads were muddy, rutted, covered in thick large planks. Even in cities, the cobbles weren't as worn and smooth as today. Today that's the result of 1000 years of wear and smoothing.
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12-09-20, 04:58 PM
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12-09-20, 05:03 PM
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Looking at the history I think it went a bit like the way children learn nowadays with "balance bikes". People pushed themselves along on hobby horses and then perhaps found they could "glide" longer and longer distances and sort of learned to control the things without thinking about it.
It still took us way too long to invent them. This is not unusual in the history of technology though. Part of the problem may have been that until the industrial revolution nobody really understood the concept of investing in technology. So people might have had ideas about self propelled vehicles but they never got further than that.
12-09-20, 05:12 PM
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Blame the horse, the sabertooths, and the velociraptors. It's more bada** to ride them than a bike!
"necessity is the mother of all inventions" back in the days when horses are relatively easy to get, there were no need for bikes.....And you can't shoot arrows with any accuracy from a bike rolling over bumpy off-road or gravel roads!
"necessity is the mother of all inventions" back in the days when horses are relatively easy to get, there were no need for bikes.....And you can't shoot arrows with any accuracy from a bike rolling over bumpy off-road or gravel roads!
I saw a documentary once that claimed the bicycle significantly improved the human genome. You could now ride to the next village instead of before when you had little choice but to marry the girl next door. In spite of her big ears, webbed feet, and the fact that she was your sister.
Bikes would have been a great benefit ever since the very first roads and paths were created which was a long time ago.
12-09-20, 06:07 PM
#36
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It's an interesting question when you think that it's actually quite hard to learn to ride a bike. If you'd just built the first bike ever you might just think it was impossible to ride and give up.
Looking at the history I think it went a bit like the way children learn nowadays with "balance bikes". People pushed themselves along on hobby horses and then perhaps found they could "glide" longer and longer distances and sort of learned to control the things without thinking about it.
It still took us way too long to invent them. This is not unusual in the history of technology though. Part of the problem may have been that until the industrial revolution nobody really understood the concept of investing in technology. So people might have had ideas about self propelled vehicles but they never got further than that.
Looking at the history I think it went a bit like the way children learn nowadays with "balance bikes". People pushed themselves along on hobby horses and then perhaps found they could "glide" longer and longer distances and sort of learned to control the things without thinking about it.
It still took us way too long to invent them. This is not unusual in the history of technology though. Part of the problem may have been that until the industrial revolution nobody really understood the concept of investing in technology. So people might have had ideas about self propelled vehicles but they never got further than that.
12-09-20, 06:31 PM
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You could make a bicycle with Bronze Age technology, but with hard wheels, imprecise and clunky steering bearings, and poor roads, Bronze Age cyclists would have smashed their perineums to pulp and wouldn't be able to reproduce.
12-10-20, 05:35 AM
#38
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12-10-20, 05:46 AM
#39
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Muddy, rutted, covered with wood
But bicycles HAVE been used in places where there weren't anything more than muddy tracks through the jungle:
I liked the idea of the history of the wheel. It made me wonder if anyone's written a history of the bicycle. I'll bet everything that's written is Eurocentric, but as the examples above show, there's an Asian history, too. It makes me wonder if our (Western) Eurocentric histories haven't eclipsed parallel (or even earlier) developments outside our Euro center.
In its 1937 invasion of China, Japan employed some 50,000 bicycle troops. Early in World War II their southern campaign through Malaya en route to capturing Singapore in 1941 was largely dependent on bicycle-riding soldiers. In both efforts bicycles allowed quiet and flexible transport of thousands of troops who were then able to surprise and confuse the defenders.
That's from https://www.bing.com/search?q=japane...IENAE2&pc=EUPP_ If you're interested in bicycle history, this is certainly worth a look. I believe that I've read that the N. Vietnamese and Viet Cong used bicycles to transport goods down the Ho Chi Minh trail, too. I don't know for a fact, but my guess is that the 1937 use was more bicycles-as-transportation, and the second use was more bicycles-as-wheelbarrows. I liked the idea of the history of the wheel. It made me wonder if anyone's written a history of the bicycle. I'll bet everything that's written is Eurocentric, but as the examples above show, there's an Asian history, too. It makes me wonder if our (Western) Eurocentric histories haven't eclipsed parallel (or even earlier) developments outside our Euro center.
12-10-20, 05:58 AM
#40
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Let's get to the real question -- who would win a bike race, Superman or The Flash?
12-10-20, 06:12 AM
#41
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But bicycles HAVE been used in places where there weren't anything more than muddy tracks through the jungle:
I liked the idea of the history of the wheel. It made me wonder if anyone's written a history of the bicycle. I'll bet everything that's written is Eurocentric, but as the examples above show, there's an Asian history, too. It makes me wonder if our (Western) Eurocentric histories haven't eclipsed parallel (or even earlier) developments outside our Euro center.
In its 1937 invasion of China, Japan employed some 50,000 bicycle troops. Early in World War II their southern campaign through Malaya en route to capturing Singapore in 1941 was largely dependent on bicycle-riding soldiers. In both efforts bicycles allowed quiet and flexible transport of thousands of troops who were then able to surprise and confuse the defenders.
That's from https://www.bing.com/search?q=japane...IENAE2&pc=EUPP_ If you're interested in bicycle history, this is certainly worth a look. I believe that I've read that the N. Vietnamese and Viet Cong used bicycles to transport goods down the Ho Chi Minh trail, too. I don't know for a fact, but my guess is that the 1937 use was more bicycles-as-transportation, and the second use was more bicycles-as-wheelbarrows.I liked the idea of the history of the wheel. It made me wonder if anyone's written a history of the bicycle. I'll bet everything that's written is Eurocentric, but as the examples above show, there's an Asian history, too. It makes me wonder if our (Western) Eurocentric histories haven't eclipsed parallel (or even earlier) developments outside our Euro center.
Not going to pull sources here, but the Japanese bicycle corps got massacred in places where the road ran out and they had to abandon their only transport. Also, they often had to ride them on the rims as rubber for tires was extremely scarce. When in the jungle, they were far more likely to be carrying or dumping the bike than riding it.
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12-14-20, 12:50 PM
#43
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It was largely due to materials. The laufmaschine...”running machine”... invented by Karl Drais in 1817 had to use the materials of the era. In 1817 all he had to work with was wood. Ball bearings had been invented in 1794 but they weren’t widely used. Wagon wheels used grease...likely animal grease...to reduce friction but that only went so far. Brakes of the era on wagons was a hide against the wheel that was mostly ineffective. They wouldn’t have been on a velocipede. Drais’s machine (usually called a draisinne) was thus heavy, slow, without a drivetrain because the roller chain wasn’t invented for another 63 years, and no brakes. It was a daring thing to get on one and something that only the “dandy” would do. Hence even another name for the laufmaschine...the dandy horse.
About 1840 a Scottish blacksmith put cranks through the front wheel...still wooden...so that the rider could propel the bike forward without the “running” part. But from pictures I’ve seen the wheel is about 24” in diameter which meant that it would have been slow even if the rider were pedaling like a demon was behind him. It likely still used the slip bearings from wagon wheels so it would have been a very hard slog to keep moving.
Wheels grew in size so that the rider could go faster but they were still made of wood and were heavy. In 1869, the wire wheel was invented and bicycles became significantly lighter. That started the first bike boom...the ordinary or penny farthing. The safety cycle came along in 1890 and that started a second bicycle boom.
Then cars came along and killed the whole industry for nearly 70 years.
About 1840 a Scottish blacksmith put cranks through the front wheel...still wooden...so that the rider could propel the bike forward without the “running” part. But from pictures I’ve seen the wheel is about 24” in diameter which meant that it would have been slow even if the rider were pedaling like a demon was behind him. It likely still used the slip bearings from wagon wheels so it would have been a very hard slog to keep moving.
Wheels grew in size so that the rider could go faster but they were still made of wood and were heavy. In 1869, the wire wheel was invented and bicycles became significantly lighter. That started the first bike boom...the ordinary or penny farthing. The safety cycle came along in 1890 and that started a second bicycle boom.
Then cars came along and killed the whole industry for nearly 70 years.
12-14-20, 03:48 PM
#44
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Leisure time. For centuries the concept that people could have time set aside to pursue a pastime was limited to the wealthy. Even today, most riding is leisure (fitness/sport/pleasure).
While some people commute to a workplace, those commuters are not lugging around hundreds of pounds of equipment needed for their trade.
John
While some people commute to a workplace, those commuters are not lugging around hundreds of pounds of equipment needed for their trade.
John
Regarding bikes: Yes, necessity is the mother of redemption. But...
"All advances in powered aviation are preceded by advances in powerplants." - Dad
And advances in powerplants are preceded by advances in materials.
I can see bicycle technology in history limited by materials technology. I think designs were in people's heads before there were materials that could achieve them.