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Old 11-27-19, 02:07 PM
  #1  
merziac
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Forum framebuilders

Some we know, some we don't.

After seeing @jackbombay's tall bike that he built himself it reminded me that I have wondered this many times.

Standup, be counted, show what you've done.

Most here hold you in high regard, many of us can wrangle just about anything bike related. Swap parts, do a ground up parts build with great skill, modify, fabricate and repair many, many things, threads, cable guides, dropouts and much else. Paint and touchup, rust mitigation, cleaning, detailing, polishing to name a few.

But it is a whole other level to build your own frame, the difference between a line in the sand and the Grand Canyon as it were.
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Old 11-27-19, 09:22 PM
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I built a frame in a local frame class 2 years ago. Did all the measuring, mitering, prep, filing, etc. Did some of the brazing but not all of it.
Since then, I've changed out cable guides on another frame and have practiced brazing with some tubes and cheap lugs.

I plan to build a road frame in the next year, just need to acquire a truly flat surface and v blocks for accuracy(since a frame jig isnt financially in the cards).

Below are a few pics- the bike built, closeup of the crown and front of bike, one of the first joints I brazed on the front triangle(took a bit of cleanup!), and working on attaching the seat stays fastback style.






My experience is in its infancy compared to gugie or Andrew Stewart- obviously. It's amazing what those with the investment in tooling can do. The really impressive thing about home frame building is the tools and jigs people create to help improve the frame building process.
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Old 11-27-19, 09:37 PM
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Looks like you have a good supply of lugs.
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Old 11-27-19, 09:58 PM
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mstateglfr

Looks great and I applaud you for going there, love the crown and the fastback, any Raleigh Pro's in your stable?
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Old 11-28-19, 12:36 AM
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Nice paint and head badge @mstateglfr ! Your work also?
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Old 11-28-19, 01:49 AM
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I've made a handful of frames, and I'm working on more. I'm technically a frame builder, but perhaps not a framebuilder yet. Two threads for the first two:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ade-frame.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ight-650b.html










-Devin

Last edited by smallpox champ; 11-28-19 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 11-28-19, 02:54 AM
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smallpox champ

Wow! Great work, sure looks like you are a framebuilder from here.
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Old 11-28-19, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by smallpox champ View Post
I've made a handful of frames, and I'm working on more. I'm technically a frame builder, but perhaps not a framebuilder yet. Two threads for the first two:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ade-frame.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ight-650b.html








-Devin
This looks like a lot of fun.
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Old 11-28-19, 07:17 AM
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I leave Sunday for my frame building course with Doug Fattic! All my tubes ,lugs and assorted bits and pieces are packed and ready to go.
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Old 11-28-19, 08:08 AM
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Smallpox Champ, I love those 2 bikes and the choice of components..
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Old 11-28-19, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by smallpox champ View Post
I've made a handful of frames, and I'm working on more. I'm technically a frame builder, but perhaps not a framebuilder yet. Two threads for the first two:


-Devin
dont sell yourself short- these are really neat to see!
I'll be reading thru your build threads today for sure.
I see the drawings call for a 66cm frame size- got a pic of that bike?
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Old 11-28-19, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
Looks like you have a good supply of lugs.
ha, that's at the shop where I took the classes. yes, there is a seemingly endless supply of lugs, tubing, and brazeons. Most of what he has is older too(traditional sized tubing that's 30+ years old).

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
mstateglfr
Looks great and I applaud you for going there, love the crown and the fastback, any Raleigh Pro's in your stable?
no raleigh pros in my stable. I knew I really wanted a fastback style and so the teacher said 'go wild'. I worked on figuring out what style of fastback(attach to sestpost clamp, attach to seat lug, etc) and due to the diameter of the seat stays, I couldn't attach it to the seatpost clamp. Ultimately I made a heart shaped shim 'lug' that was brazed to the seat tube, and the the seat stays were brazed to the heart. I kept shortening the stays because I had to continually trim one to match the other plus match the complex curving angle cut. It turned out well, but this was one of many learning moments.

Originally Posted by Insidious C. View Post
Nice paint and head badge @mstateglfr ! Your work also?
I chose the paint colors and where the fade would be, but didnt paint. The frame class teacher is a painter so he executed the vision.
I designed the head tube badge, but some guy in Spain off etsy made it.
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Old 11-28-19, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
I leave Sunday for my frame building course with Doug Fattic! All my tubes ,lugs and assorted bits and pieces are packed and ready to go.
Excellent!, can't wait to see.
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Old 11-28-19, 11:36 AM
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I've got my bamboo kit. Maybe someday I'll return to it.
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Old 11-28-19, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by smallpox champ View Post
This bike, THIS BIKE!!!!

I love it!

No frame building classes anywhere near me unfortunately, but I do have some other novelty bikes in mind that I'll MIG together in my garage.

Here are a couple older pics of my tall bike, that Merziac referenced at the beginning of this thread, AKA Lamp Lighter, its rides great, frame is dead straight, rides no hands beautifully... I can run my road bike wheels in it with center pull brakes or I can swap it to 26" wheels and run cantilever brakes on it for gravel rides. I do take the tall bike on quasi real bike rides, I've ridden several half centuries with it and have climbed some serious mountain on it too (5,200' unbroken climb in 12 miles on asphalt), the bike has been on some decent gravel rides to, and believe it or not, I've had this tall bike well over 50 MPH on numerous occasions!

https://i.postimg.cc/JhDWDTB5/4A0B3C...4C53938B5A.jpg



I also built a really weird bike, there is a second headset/headtube/steer tube in the down tube of the bike all housed in a 2" piece of electrical conduit so the back of the bike can rotate around the axis of the downtube, it takes a bit to get the hang of, but its really fun novelty bike, a bit annoying to ride more than a mile or so as you really have to keep your core engaged to keep the back end tracking straight, and you CANNOT stand up on this bike. I have some parts set aside so I can make a thumb activated lockout for the 2nd headset, default mode would be "normal bike" then press the thumb lever and BAM you're steering with the rear wheel!

Here is video of the bike,
[ame=https://youtu.be/yuUTq6APFkE]
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Old 11-28-19, 11:45 AM
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Some more details on the tall bike, the chain stays are a fork that I cold set to 135, so the wheel goes into the back of the bike, but it works well enough. I did align the dropouts after spreading the fork that far. Yea, I did have to hit it really hard with a 4 pound sledge to get it to move that far, I ran a hole saw through a 2x4 then cut the 2x4 in half so I had a piece of wood ton the fork that matche the radius of the fork leg that I was hitting with the hammer, I moved one leg at a time to maintain symmetry.

Some may also notice the 54 tooth ring on it, yea, my buddy that isn't even a biker had that kicking around years ago, and gave it to me! It is 110 BCD too, odd ring for sure. And the small ring is a 24 tooth. My current road bike wheels have an 11/36 cassette, so that gives me an %805 gear range, Ha!
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Old 11-28-19, 12:25 PM
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UBI framebuilding course bike:



Frame #2 was for a friend who wanted a lot of custom stuff-Rohloff, hellenic stays, diagatube, custom racks.



I've done a half dozen forks as well from scratch.
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Old 11-28-19, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
UBI framebuilding course bike:



Frame #2 was for a friend who wanted a lot of custom stuff-Rohloff, hellenic stays, diagatube, custom racks.



I've done a half dozen forks as well from scratch.
Because, you rock, period.
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Old 11-28-19, 09:52 PM
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Started working on another tall bike for a friend today, I got all my tubes selected, "everything is there", but still need to do a lot of prep and of course cut everything to length. All the donor bikes came from the dump.

The lay out,


The fork, yea, its straight, and was from the dump,



The frame it came from



Which got hit pretty hard by a car in a garage I suspect to cause this kind of damage to the seat stay,



And the pile of bikes and left overs that I cut bits out of,



Dura Ace headset with the De Rosa fork, that will be a nice touch on the tall bike!
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Old 11-28-19, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
The fork, yea, its straight, and was from the dump,



Which got hit pretty hard by a car in a garage I suspect to cause this kind of damage to the seat stay,


Oof, seat stays are probably the easiest tubes on a frame to replace, and that DeRosa fork is still ok...before you commit to using that fork, I'd see if someone would really like that frame repaired and have the fork to go with it.
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Old 11-28-19, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
Oof, seat stays are probably the easiest tubes on a frame to replace, and that DeRosa fork is still ok...before you commit to using that fork, I'd see if someone would really like that frame repaired and have the fork to go with it.
The top tube on the frame has a decent dent in it too, about the size of a dime, and 1/8" "deep", and the whole top tube is a bit bent from that dent. Also, the "non bent" seat stay is bent because the bike got hit so hard, and the non drive side chain stay has been lifted upwards notably due to the big bend in that seat stay. The down tube has been "squeezed"/pressed on hard by something at some point as well as it is not quite round for 4 or 5 inches of its length. I've had this frame kicking around for years, because it seems "too nice" to cut up, but it's pretty beat up all in all. The seat tube is the only tube that isn't dented and or bent. If somebody really wants to make a rider out of it I'd consider shipping it to them for the cost of shipping, but I'm %95 sure that such a transaction would result in the frame sitting around their shop for a few years doing nothing just as it has sat around my shop for a few years doing nothing. It's time for something to happen with this frame...

Last edited by jackbombay; 11-29-19 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 11-29-19, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
The top tube on the frame had a decent dent in it too, about the size of a dime, and 1/8" "deep", and the whole top tube is a bit bent from that dent. Also, the "non bent" seat stay is bent because the bike got hit so hard, and the non drive side chain stay has been lifted upwards notably due to the big bend in that seat stay. The down tube has been "squeezed"/pressed on hard by something at some point as well as it is not quite round for 4 or 5 inches of its length. I've had this frame kicking around for years, because it seems "too nice" to cut up, but it's pretty beat up all in all. The seat tube is the only tube that isn't dented and or bent. If somebody really wants to make a rider out of it I'd consider shipping it to them for the cost of shipping, but I'm %95 sure that such a transaction would result in the frame sitting around their shop for a few years doing nothing just as it has sat around my shop for a few years doing nothing. It's time for something to happen with this frame...
Thanks for the additional info.

Death by a thousand cuts...
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Old 11-29-19, 06:32 AM
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Modern American framebuilders got started right after the bike boom of 1970/71 when there was suddenly a new market for top end bicycles. In the 50ís and 60ís cycling was for kids and the 1st day they got their driverís license was the last day they wanted to ride their bike. Suddenly within a year (in the Midwest at least) at the start of that new decade interest in bicycles exploded and adults started to ride for sport and recreation. By that time the American builders before WWII had passed from the scene. Albert Eisentraut bridged this divide when he learned from Oscar Wastyn in Chicago in the 60ís. That shop made the earliest Schwinn Paramounts in the 30ís. Albert was a high school art teacher and started teaching framebuilding classes in various locations around the US in the 70ís. Andy Stewart took one of the last classes that he taught. Some of his other notable students included Bruce Gordon and Mark Nobilette.

In the 70ís there were about 10/12 of us that were lucky enough to learn in Europe where they had a long tradition of making frames. Bill Hurlow told me that he got on average 2 letters a week from hopeful Americans requesting to apprentice with him. I was a high school teacher at the time and wanted to figure out the mystery of how they were made and then teach the craft back here in the States. I was fortunate that Ellis-Briggs in Shipley West Yorkshire let me learn from them. I taught my first framebuilding class in 1976 and have been teaching as well as building and painting ever since. Most of my students that took my class back then just wanted to make something for themselves instead of buying a Colnago or something. The majority in the last 12 years or so have wanted to make more after class either as a hobby or to start a business.

Here are some pictures of some student made bicycle frames made and painted in one of my classes.








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Old 11-29-19, 08:48 AM
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^^^^^^
Wow!
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Old 11-29-19, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
UBI framebuilding course bike:







I've done a half dozen forks as well from scratch.
gugie I dont think I have ever seen a fork with the dropouts rotated to face forward like that. what is the idea behind horizontal vs vertical front dropouts?
ALSO, nice looking frame, kudos!
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