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Rim recommendations for 35-44c tires

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Rim recommendations for 35-44c tires

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Old 03-14-19, 07:31 PM
  #26  
randallr
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Mavic Open Pro UST - My wife has this on her rear wheel and the range of widths they can cope with is kind of astounding.
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Old 03-14-19, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
Yeah I've done the same on my mountain bike rides. "Ooops I'm bottoming out, better add a few PSI". I assume the rim width plays a roll in the handling at that point, but I don't know how much.


Yeah thanks for the suggestion. I've got a gravelking at the top of my list to try. It looks pretty sweet. Maybe I'll try the 38's on my A23's and report back. I noticed the 38's are tubless ready, which I didn't need. Seems a shame to stick a tube in anyway.
Rim size...also terrain. If the tire doesn't have enough cornering traction--as on a slick on a dirt or gravel road, you'll simply low-side---the tire won't squirm on the rim. Whereas you take the same slick on a tractiony asphalt road, the tire can squirm in a corner because the tread has enough traction to fight the air pressure so it can deform even more than a "usual" sag.

This being a gravel board squirming is less of a thing with slick tires...note that the comment you quoted above was a fellow riding those tires on hard pavement in fair weather in California. Not someone racing in the dirt of Kanza or mud of L/R100.
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Old 03-15-19, 10:57 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
I mean that at the same tire pressure, the 35 is harsher over bumps than the 32. It's the casing tension phenomenon
https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/11861...tiffer-harsher

So with larger tires, to get the same comfort level you simply lower the pressure. However if you lower the pressure too much, particularly on a narrow rim, the tire starts to feel weird. Mushy, floppy, and less precise.

I haven't done enough experimentation to be an expert, but I distinctly remember replacing my 35C panaracer with a 32 on the front wheel and being much happier with the balance of comfort and handling. I blamed the wheel width, but maybe I should have blamed the T-serve casing.
A 35mm tire is NOT harsher than a 32mm tire. Ever.

You should NOT be running them at the same pressure. The whole point of a wider width tire is lower pressure.

35mm is a more comfortable tire relative to a 32mm tire, end of story. Obviously one would not experience this if they are intentionally setting things up to make the 35mm tire as uncomfortable as possible (running higher than ideal pressure intentionally).

Now, handling and feel is a bit of a different story, and perfectly open to personal preference. I ran 40mm tires on the road with 17mm internal rims, and found them perfectly acceptable. It's possible I'm not as discerning as others though.

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Old 03-15-19, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
A 35mm tire is NOT harsher than a 32mm tire. Ever.

You should NOT be running them at the same pressure. The whole point of a wider width tire is lower pressure.

35mm is a more comfortable tire relative to a 32mm tire, end of story. Obviously one would not experience this if they are intentionally setting things up to make the 35mm tire as uncomfortable as possible (running higher than ideal pressure intentionally).

Now, handling and feel is a bit of a different story, and perfectly open to personal preference. I ran 40mm tires on the road with 17mm internal rims, and found them perfectly acceptable. It's possible I'm not as discerning as others though.
I've have 38s that are way harsher than some of my supple 33s. It depends on the tread compound/thickness and overall construction. For example schwalbe marathons compared to challenge grifos. Even when lowered to 25psi the schwables still felt terrible, but they have a huge protection belt. They came on a bike I purchased and were ridden less than 50 miles before they got torn off and dumped in a bin. Width is only 1 aspect of a tire's comfort
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Old 03-15-19, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I've have 38s that are way harsher than some of my supple 33s. It depends on the tread compound/thickness and overall construction. For example schwalbe marathons compared to challenge grifos. Even when lowered to 25psi the schwables still felt terrible, but they have a huge protection belt. They came on a bike I purchased and were ridden less than 50 miles before they got torn off and dumped in a bin. Width is only 1 aspect of a tire's comfort

Fair enough, though I assumed we would all be talking about the same tire at different widths haha
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Old 03-15-19, 12:23 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Fair enough, though I assumed we would all be talking about the same tire at different widths haha
The OP specified two different tires in the original post. That's why we are suggesting he look elsewhere away from rim width being the main factor.
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Old 03-15-19, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
A 35mm tire is NOT harsher than a 32mm tire. Ever.
Ever? Depending on the air pressure, it absolutely can be.
Obviously one would not experience this if they are intentionally setting things up to make the 35mm tire as uncomfortable as possible (running higher than ideal pressure intentionally).
It's not done intentionally to make things uncomfortable.

But what about when sloppy handling prevents you from lowering the larger tire's pressure as low as needed to match the smaller tire's comfort level? That's when you have a problem.

For what it's worth, I emailed Compass and the person who replied said he runs their 38mm Barlow Pass on a Hed Belgium Plus (20.5mm internal) and he says it's great. He'd run the 44mm if he could fit it on his bike.
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Old 03-15-19, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
Ever? Depending on the air pressure, it absolutely can be.

It's not done intentionally to make things uncomfortable.

But what about when sloppy handling prevents you from lowering the larger tire's pressure as low as needed to match the smaller tire's comfort level? That's when you have a problem.

For what it's worth, I emailed Compass and the person who replied said he runs their 38mm Barlow Pass on a Hed Belgium Plus (20.5mm internal) and he says it's great. He'd run the 44mm if he could fit it on his bike.
Well, if softness is impacting handling, then it is a tire size problem, not a pressure problem.

If you increase size, pressure goes down. If you have two similar construction tires, but different sizes, and you are running both at the same pressure, one (or both..) tire is at a silly pressure.

For example...if you run a 32mm tire at say 70psi, and that is optimal for road use. If you then have the same brand/model tire in 35mm, and you run it at the same 70psi or greater, well that's just not optimal. It's suboptimal, and yes obviously that will manifest itself as poor comfort. Might a 35mm tire on the same rim, at 50-60 psi feel squishy or handle more poorly? Sure, it very well might. But that's an argument to select a narrower tire, not to run the existing tire at a silly pressure. Money concerns notwithstanding of course.

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Old 03-15-19, 04:44 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
But that's an argument to select a narrower tire, not to run the existing tire at a silly pressure
Which is the entire point of this thread. What rim do I need to run a larger tire at the appropriate pressure without there being handling issues.
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Old 03-15-19, 05:20 PM
  #35  
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Buy better tires, the T-serv is a stiff, harsh tire with a narrow ideal pressure range that isn't really that great anyway. The 35 is also constructed differently than the 28/32 and has a tougher casing. Buying a different rim isn't going to make a difference for that type of tire. Buying a different rim isn't going to make much difference if your pressure isn't controlled and repeatable so you can find the proper range. 3 psi difference for a 30 psi tire is 10% and can be hard to nail down when most pumps and gauges have error values larger than this. So get a good pressure gauge as well. Accu-Gage by Meiser has a +/-2% accuracy which is better than pretty much any other bicycle pressure gauge.

Another issue is that wider rims will often provide better sidewall support for tires but this is not a universal rule for all tires and rims. Some tires require more pressure to support the sidewall and since the internal volume increases, casing tension increases as well and you end up with both a harsher riding tire that is not as confident under hard cornering. Due to this I prefer to look at tires first, and really frame/fork before considering rims. Lots of people are chasing comfort on massively overbuilt gravel bikes would be better served on lighter builds than anything else. Not the direction the industry is going however.

Compass tires aren't very thin, the issue is that they're extremely soft. Punctures just as often come from embedded glass shards that take days or weeks to work through the tread as they do from sharp objects that would puncture any tire. The Bon Jon Pass has essentially the same thickness profile as the Continental GP4kSII - both racing tires.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...-jon-pass-2018
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...-4000s-ii-2014

I think this thread is an inevitable result of current industry obsession with comfort. Maximizing comfort always comes at the expense of handling or performance. Find the right combination of all of them. You've already discovered 35mm T-servs don't align with your preferences.
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Old 03-15-19, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
The 35 is also constructed differently than the 28/32 and has a tougher casing.
Noooo way. That could explain a lot about my observations.

Thanks for the other input too. I'm open to suggestions regarding tires. I'm looking at the 38mm gravel kings but am open to other ones to try. I don't really need much tread as I don't ride mud or heavy off road. Just the occasional dirt /gravel path or broken up pavement.
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Old 03-15-19, 05:55 PM
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700cx38 gravel king is a very good tire. Good puncture resistance but still reasonably supple and fast rolling.
700cx32 gravel king is a mediocre tire.
700cx35 is new and I haven't had a chance to handle but I'm hoping it is like the 38 and not the 32.

I'd wholeheartedly recommend the 38mm GK slicks. Another option would be the Teravail Rampart in 700cx38 light & supple. Have heard good things about this tire from riders I respect.

Even the regular wire bead Pasela is a good tire, if heavy. It rolled down as well as Compass tires did back in testing pre-2015. Resist Nomad is another wire bead tire that is massively underrated. Comes in 700cx35 or 45 and is about as supple a wire bead tire as you'll ever find.
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Old 03-15-19, 08:02 PM
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Another option would be schwalbe g one all around, a lot of friends run those for a mix of gravel and pavement, mostly tubeless however
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Old 03-15-19, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
I'm looking for rim/wheel recommendations for running 35-44 tires on my cross bike. I do NOT have disc brakes.

Currently I'm using Velocity A23 rims (18mm inner diameter). I find 32mm tire to be the sweet spot for those rims. I also tried 35 (both Panaracer T-serv) - it was OK but I wasn't in love. When I ran pressures low enough to be comfortable I found the 35's less pleasant than the 32 because of the extra side to side flop. People say I can run a 40mm tire on these rims but I can't imagine I will like it.

So I'm thinking a 22-23 internal diameter rim for 35-44c? Does this sound right? Any specific rim recommendations that have brake tracks so they work with my archaic cantilever brakes.

Or should I declare that this is a mistake to invest in this bike, and I need a new carbon fiber bike with disc brakes?
Try your 32 mm tires on an 23 - 25 mm internal width rim and you will find that an even sweeter combination than on your narrow rim. Ignore teh chart and follow the tire manufacturer recommendations for rim width. I find ideal gravel rins have an internal width of 223 - 25 mm. Much wider and you cannot reasonably run a 30 mm tire and much narrower and you kose out on a lot of stable riding experience.
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Old 03-15-19, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelslider View Post
Try your 32 mm tires on an 23 - 25 mm internal width rim and you will find that an even sweeter combination than on your narrow rim.
I've yet to find an aluminum 23-35mm rim with rim brakes, besides the Velocity Cliffhanger which is a boat anchor.
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Old 03-16-19, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gravelslider View Post
Try your 32 mm tires on an 23 - 25 mm internal width rim and you will find that an even sweeter combination than on your narrow rim. Ignore teh chart and follow the tire manufacturer recommendations for rim width. I find ideal gravel rins have an internal width of 223 - 25 mm. Much wider and you cannot reasonably run a 30 mm tire and much narrower and you kose out on a lot of stable riding experience.
What does this mean?
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Old 03-21-19, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
However, there aren't many 23mm inner diameter rims with rim brakes. I found two carbon light bicycle rims (inner diameters 21 and 23) and there's the boat anchor Velocity Cliffhanger mountain bike rim.
The Quill is 21mm inner, aluminum and rim-brake, but not a boat anchor: Velocity Wheels - Hand Made in USA
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