markwebb

Just an FYI - the Nitto Deluxe 190 and non-deluxe 225 Techno quill stems are very good and look atractive on your retro steel bikes, but they don't fit all size frames. They are 190mm and 225mm long (quill/insert ino steere/head tube).

Because they are so long - on frames roughly 56cm or smaller they are too long. The steerer tube head tube sorta narrows/tapers as it's butted towards the bottom. You need the stem wedge to compress against the tube above the butted area less you cause damage or worse yet it comes loose.

I discovered this problem when trying to lower my bars using the Nitto 190mm version. I can't get less than about 4.5" of stem above headset nut - any lower than that and it hits the butted part of tube. My bike is just a tad under 56cm seat tube size.

Just an FYI to beware of those longer stems. I love Rivendell, but they don't address this issue very well when describing these specific products. The 225mm stem would be even worse and would have such issues with frames up to 57cm in size. On my 56cm bike, the minimum insertion mark is just below the nut - if I had a 55cm or smaller bike the 190mm Nitto would not work at all. These stems are also available from a great ebayer Ben's Bikes but they also don't note this issue with these long stems.

dekalbSTEEL

I'm guessing Rivendell wouldn't WANT your bars to be below your saddle, just a guess....

operator

Get a shorter... stem?

roadfix

I used a miter chop saw to shorten the quill just a bit to fit my 5 inch tall head tube.
As far as having to use a shorter stem bolt, I honestly don't remember where I found the right length stem bolt or maybe there was still plenty of threading left on the original bolt....I just don't remember....

biker7

Hi Mark,
You should be able to derive any quill height you want. If you want lower you will simply have to shorten the quill on the same angle that currently meets to the threaded wedge. There are many ways to do this as it is not critical you get the angle perfect for an effective interference. You can use a die grinder, hack saw or even mark the quill with tape and use a dremmel with heavy duty cut off wheel.
Simply determine max insertion with the current length and subtract the amount you want your bars lower + 0.25" or so for clearance.
HTH,
George

markwebb

George - what about the threading for bolt through bottom of stem and then into wedge - is the thread solid all the way up the stem? It looked kinda like a small plate a few mm thick plate on bottom of stem. Is the threading actually solid through entire stem (meaning the stem is solid and not hollow)?

I really like Rivendell - their advice on wide bars made a great positive difference in comfort, and raising bar height is sure a lot more comfy. But in stem product descriptions they should indicate they work best with bikes over 56cm in size (Deluxe) and 58cm in height for non-Deluxe if you want 4.5" of stem or more exposed. If you want less stem - like 3.5" exposed, they won't work unless you can modify like you suggest. In their Bike 101 link they mention it, but not in their catalog/product description. Seems like before you click Add to Cart they should let you know.

markwebb

I want stem at saddle height or just about 0.75cm shorter - but at my saddle height and my bike size the stem is just too darn long and can't be lowered any further than the tube butting. If you get a Cinelli stem they only give you like 7cm max of exposed stem - whhich is way too low to get anywhere near the height of saddle.

markwebb

Well, duh, Mr Obvious. Thanks for the practical advice and insight.

I want stem at saddle height or just about 0.75cm shorter - but at my saddle height and my bike size these stems are just too darn long and can't be lowered any further than the tube butting. That's my point - Rivendell is right about comfort and saddle/bar height - but in product description in describing how wonderful these are and how they help so much, they should also note the problems with the head tube/steerer tubes on bike 56cm and smaller wuith deluxe and 57 or 58cm bikes and mon-deluxe model.

Serpico

you bash Nitto on a public forum because you bought a stem too big?

'Beware Nitto Quill Stems' if someone didn't actually open and read the thread they'd think you had a failure or something

nice

Nitto makes awesome stuff, I wonder how many (hundreds?) saw your thread title without clicking it

Heron Todd

Yes, shorter frames have shorter steerers which limit a stem's adjustability. This is true for all quill stems, not just long Nittos. As others have suggested, the Technomics can be cut down fairly easily. Nitto also offers some shorter quills such as the Pearl and Dynamic (which I happen to carry).

roadfix

I use a lot of Nitto components. And I agree, the thread title is misleading....

operator

Well no **** sherlock? You have a stem that is too long. Gee I wonder what the solution is.

Mariner Fan

One of the things I didn't think about is the head tube angle. When you lift the handlebars they naturally move closer to you (I'm going to offset this by lowering the stem a bit). If that doesn't work I'll buy a longer stem for my Trek. BTW, I think the Nitto stems are great. Very nice quality and they look good too.

markwebb

No - not bashing Nitto at all. Just letting anyone know that the Nitto Deluxe 190 with a 56 cm or smaller frame, or a Nitto non-Deluxe (225) with a 57 cm frame - they may not be able to use the stems because they will be too long for the steerer tubes. The stems are quite good quality - nothing wrong with them.

My main issue is Rivendell - which is usually very excellent - makes no mention of these issues in their description of these stems in their on-line catalog. They describe how these stems are "Back Savers" and espouse the attributes of bars close to same level as saddle - but don't mention in item description that not all bikes can use them. Without such knowledge, someone like me will buy them to get bars up higher, only to find out that their steerer tubes butting inhibits the use of the stems.

But nothing at all wrong with the stems - just beware of the sizing issue before purchase.

markwebb

I guess you have trouble with comprehension - I ended up with a stem that's too long because Rivendell does not note this potential issue in their description of the item. Had they stated that on most frames smaller than 56cm the deluxe and non-deluxe Nitto may not work, and that you need a 57cm or taller frame to make the non-deluxe work - I may not have purchased the item and thus I may not have ended up with a stem that's too long.

I was not necessarily looking for a solution - I just wanted to warn others before a similiar purchase is made.

Hope it's now clearer.

markwebb

Here's the text of the Rivendell item description in their on-line catalogue, which makes no mention of the potential frame size issue (I should note that their Web site DOES mention such issues in their Bike 101/Stems page, but not on the catalog page). I love the Rivendell company, their philosophy, their bikes, and most everything else but I think they missed on this one, hence my warning about the stems to would-be purchasers.

https://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handl...ape/16044.html

Our most popular single item, and the stem that's saved thousands of backs and necks already. It has a long quill, which lets you jack the bars up into the comfort zone without making your road bike look funny. The finish is excellent, equal to anything from Italy. Cold-forged aluminum with an aluminum wedge. To use it with a Priest bar, get the Nitto shim, too.

As with all of our stems, once it has been inserted into a bike and scratched up, NO RETURNS!

26.0mm, fits 1" (22.2mm inner diameter) steerers. 190mm quill length.

Please note - the STEM LENGTH NUMBERS below refer to the FORWARD EXTENSION, MEASURED CENTER TO CENTER ALONG THE SIDE FROM THE CENTER OF TEHE QUILL TO THE CENTER OF THE BAR CLAMP, not the quill length, which is a constant for a particular model of stem.

Handlebars 101:

There are two handlebar diameter standards:

1) Mountain bike (7/8") These take traditional mountain bike components like grip shifters, thumb shifters, rapid fire shifters, v-brake levers, etc. The Dove and Albatross bars fall into this category.

2) Road bike (15/16") These take traditional road bike components like caliper brake levers, STI or Ergo shifters, bar end shifters, etc. The Moustache, Dream, and Noodle bars fall into this category.

Possibly confusing the issue is that there are two stem clamp diameter standards that usually (but not always) correspond to the bar diameter. Most mountain bike bars have 25.4 mm (1") clamp diameters and most road bars have 26.0 mm clamp diameters (except some old Cinelli's were 26.4 so you had to use both their stem and bars). Some old road bars also came in 25.4 mm clamp diameters. Also some bars come with a 25.8 diameter clamp area but they work with the 26.0 stems.

When buying handlebars and stems, please keep this in mind and take measurements before you call us if you aren't sure what you have.

Serpico

these aren't huge multinationals we're talking about, they're small companies whose owners would be in a different business if they were trying to get rich

a lot of people lurk and post on this forum, there's often 300+ on at one time (just the road cycling section alone)

maybe you can ask a friendly mod to edit your thread title to something like "something to consider when purchasing a quill stem". Rivendell and Nitto are both rad companies.

just a thought--and yes, I understand you didn't mean to bash Nitto, but someone who only saw the title wouldn't know that

Heron Todd

The only way that these stems would not work at all on shorter frames is if Nitto placed the minimum insertion line much higher than other stem manufacturers. I have not seen that on any Nitto stem. It is possible, I suppose, that you have a stem that is marked incorrectly. You should be able to put any quill stem into any steerer without the minimum insertion line showing. If you can't, then my guess is that the steerer was cut incorrectly when the fork was made. The thicker portion of the steerer should be low enough to allow the stem to be inserted to the minimum insertion line.

markwebb

No - they are so long that on my 56cm frame they cannot be inserted far enough to get bars at same height or lower than seat. It's because the head tube tapers because it's a steel frame with butted tubing. It has nothing to do with the min insertion mark. I am trying to get bars lower not higher and there is a hard stop to stem when it hits the butting/tapering. The stems are well made but the 190 should only be used with like a 57cm steel frame or larger. The 225 Nitto probably works best with a 58cm or taller steel frame.

cs1

How far above the headset is the stem? I believe that the Nitto stem you are using isn't meant to be below seat height. It's designed to be level with or above the seat. You probably wouldn't be having a problem if you used it that way. Good luck on your quill stem search.

Tim

markwebb

I am trying to get it at seat height, and it needs to be 3.5" above headset to do that. But with a frame that's a 55cm frame, the head tube is just a little too small.

lotek 

I edited the thread title to
Caution: Nitto stems and smaller frames.
It sounds a bit more appropriate to the discussion to me.
As for the discussion, lets keep it civil ok?

marty

biker7

With respect Mark, I just don't understand all this discussion. If you need formal resolution, post pictures with dimensions of your bike frame steerer tube, the Nitto Stem, the bolt that runs down through the stem and the locking wedge that threads into it. Use MS Paint to mark up the pictures if you don't have power point or Photoshop. I am an engineer and we have exchanged a few PM's and it doesn't seem like you are getting the response you need and I want to help. Pictures and dimensions...how we do it at the office. Words sometimes aren't enough. :-) Installing the stem should be straight forward after you shorten it. There should be no threads in the stem itself Mark...only on the bolt shank and the female hole in the locking wedge. A picture will reveal if the bolt is threaded all the way up. That will allow you to shorten the quill as much as you need. The bolt itself may or may not have to be shortened...it must remain longer then the shortened quill of course. If you post the pics, including the distance of exposed quill above the steerer tube you want...I can do the simple math for you. If you are still stumped I will put together a simple 2-D picture with dimensions after your provide pics of parts with dimensions....you can post them in this thread.

Hope that helps,
George

kross57

Wow, I wish I had seen this thread months ago. Mark is right on the money. With really small frames like 49-50 you can barely get the minimum insertion line in the tube.