fietsbob

OK, my LBS sells Zero high end race bikes ,They buy those in the big city..,

63rickert

You got me on sag. Should be in range of 15-20% of tire height. All the rest of travel is used, and is not making anyone slow. Pinch flats are the evidence all the travel is used. Part of the reason for tubeless is so that all possible suspension travel in tires can be used without having pinch flats. CX at the top end is using tire travel so much they destroy pricey carbon rims in a race or two. Yes, if you pay for your own bike and travel public roads you want to be set up so only the very biggest hits have a (small) chance of bottoming out the tire.

Reasoning by analogy is dangerous but I will try that. In some ways a bike rider is sitting on a twenty pound hammer. When you hit a surprise bump or pothole it is a lot like that and there is always some level of wear and tear. The choices are to address the arm swinging the hammer or to put a little padding on the face of the hammerhead. The further away from your body the hits are absorbed the better.

There is also changing the way you ride rather than changing equipment. Some of us have always preferred the hardest saddles we can get, as they are a base for creating power. This approach only works if floating out of saddle full time. Floating out of saddle is work as well as being comfortable. Is it less work than getting beat up by a 20 pound hammer? Depends. No saddle is ever going to be comfortable if you just park all your weight on it.

smashndash

I think I do end up parking all my weight on my saddle quite frequently. During the TdM, my hands were going numb from the constant hits and the ~35 degree weather, and my legs were exploding so I tried to give myself a quick break by putting all my weight on my saddle - just in time to hit a pothole. I'm not saying I need my bike to be able to absorb hits like that (though of course it would be nice), but I coast far too often in races to not take full advantage and unweight my legs. I also generally try to weight my saddle rather than floating even while pedaling because I've found that it increases how long I can sustain high amounts of power at 120+ rpm. Trying to float leads to my legs burning up really quickly. So while I understand that floating would solve my compliance issue, I think it would make me a lot slower overall.

In terms of using all available travel - I hit potholes too hard and too frequently to risk running my pressures low enough to use my entire travel. I have no evidence to prove that lower pressures are slower overall so perhaps I will try going lower and see what happens... maybe 35-40 psi rear.

Barrettscv 

One of the more unfortunate characteristics of high performance bicycles is that smaller frame sizes are the most stiff and larger sizes are more compliant. A taller, and probably heavier, rider ends up with a frame that might feel flexy and the shorter, and probably lighter, rider ends up with a bike that has very little compliance.

I'm using a few bikes that offer some compliance and I also have two uber stiff bikes that have very little compliance. Trying to make a bike optimized for racing speed into a comfortable training bike is going to create some dissatisfaction. The bike will no longer perform as intended and it may never be truly comfortable.

I'd use two bikes, a complaint bike for training & recreational riding and a second for race (or race-like) activity. A bike like the Canyon Endurace with the shock absorber seatpost and a large supple tubeless tires will be comfortable without any modifications. Converting a race bike into a bike built for comfort might be futile.

masi61

Road Fan

I'm by no means a perfect rider. I don't ride enough and I don't have the power or endurance to race or compete. I ride steel frames with Brooks or Selle AnAtomica saddles, and weigh 200 or so. I find double-butted frames with Columbus SL, Columbus ELOS, Reynolds 531 all decently comfortable, even on rough pavement. I don't know or care if carbon frames are "faster" than mine, whether that means speed or acceleration. I would challenge that the steering response between general steel and general carbon is significantly different. My bikes weigh anywhere from 18 to 24 pounds with pedals. Perhaps with a Domane or a Roubaix I could save a few pounds, but I can't imagine it would matter. The main methods to control vibration and impact to my butt is to position the saddle so my sitbones are suspended by the leather skin of the saddle rather than the steel rear plate (cantle plate), 21 mm tubulars (Gommitalia Espresso) with 90 psi, and to look ahead and lift my butt above the saddle surface to let the bike wiggle and bounce under me as it needs to, but with my weight only on the pedals and handlebars.

I also use Thomson or Nitto seatposts. The Nittos have round thin-wall steel posts, and the Thomsons have thin walled aluminum posts that are thinned on the front and rear walls. In principle these seatposts can contribute to shock-filtering elastic flex, but I don't know of any tests that demonstrate effectiveness or its lack. I can also unload both my hands and butt together, without losing control.

But for me the most significant points are non-maximal tire pressure, and isolating my butt from hard contact with road shocks. You could benefit from a leather saddle (at the cost of more mass) if you can position it correctly, and from unloading the seatpost when rough road is coming up.

Some of the Specialized Toupe saddles have their Level 2 comfort rating, weigh less than half of the lightest Brooks or S-A, and have a very wide fore-aft adjustment range. I have othat one on my Mondonico ELOS, and it is amazingly comfortable. They also have thin gel inserts in the sitbone area. The top Toupes have a carbon base, but that's $300. I'd be surprised if Trek/Bontrager does not have something comparable.

I also use 27 mm Paris-Roubaix tubulars (Challenge or ... whatever they're re-named) and that is an added improvement if I cheat the air pressure. But my main purpose in that case is added rim protection. My wheels are very well built, but replacing with tubular rims is not something I want to do a lot of.

Any case, I think there are some points here you can try.

63rickert

Interesting. 120rpm is quite good. You can do it and you even use it. Sounds so good it sounds like me. Great minds think alike.

One of the very first things I learned about riding was to pedal constantly. Knew that much before I'd even met the old pros. All of the old pros taught that. Of course this was an earlier era and the pros I knew then were from 6day track, where obviously it was fixed gear. They did have reasons, though most of us just did as told and didn't ask. A big difference in how coaching happens today is that riders shop for coaches and coaches have to be mindful of not handing riders anything too challenging or unfashionable. When Coach was Torchy Peden or Jimmy Walthour the authority was absolute. Plus they were really nice guys and rode so beautiful. I can still remember first time riding with Jimmy. He sat so quietly, appeared to be doing nothing at all. Old and fat and so calm, how the heck is he getting down the road so darn fast? Because he was doing nothing but riding. Coasting means stopping and starting. Big waste of energy. Better to just do nothing, and pedal all the time. In a race when something happens you have to respond instantly. Getting your legs back up to speed means a delay and a longer chase. Plus if your legs are always moving you can make it look to the other guy like you did nothing, make it seem to him like his rush or attack was a nothing. Make it seem to him like his attacks are meaningless and maybe he'll settle down and quit punishing you. Of course the best way to learn constant pedaling is to train on a fixed wheel, which includes a whole new level of saddle soreness.

Pedaling also means some of your weight is carried by the pedals. Some weight is on your hands. All weight on saddle just shouldn't happen. Maybe try welcoming the burn in your legs.

30mm is already a good size tire, for a light rider it is quite large. Going even bigger will smooth out the ride and is not necessarily slower. Frames that will take 32mm or 35mm tires will be sold as endurance bikes or CX bikes, they are just bikes. Avoid the ones with shallow head angles, high trail, wide handlebars. A Cannondale SuperX, just as an example, is a plain road bike with big clearances. Stiff frame but enough tire will cancel that.

Maybe with your riding style the only choice is a frame with actual suspension. They exist. Suspension in the seatpost is problematic and gimmicky. Variable distance from saddle to pedals prevents smooth pedaling, 120rpm goes away.

69chevy

One of three things is going on here.
1- you are exaggerating
2- your tire gauge is off by 30#
3- you are extremely sensitive to bumps

burnthesheep

I agree. Or #4 , the roads there are horrendous. At which point I'd give up on road and do gravel or mtb if it is that bad.

I'm 155 lbs, and consider that "light". I run 23's on some bumpy country roads just fine on a carbon Fizik race saddle. No problems.

That much tire on a road bike is pushing it already. When I ride my CX bike on the road with tires that size it feels like riding a couch.

One actual positive contribution I can make is saying to check your grip tape and your gloves, if you wear any. If I'm doing something bumpier I'll wear gloves with padding. If not, no gloves. Worth a look.

Also, if you're flexible enough you can run a more aggressive setup that puts more weight up front (on your hands/arms) and off the bottom.

Lastly, no matter what you're talking about, putting power out weights the saddle less. It's even an input into saddle fitting on some websites. Try it on the Fizik website, it has your weight and power/speed input. No joke.

base2 

Two things occured to me that I don't think were mentioned.
First, if you have not already done so, get a bike fit. It is quite possible your bars may be too high even if you think your reach is right. Too high shifts extra body weight to your sit bones making the bike feel harsher than it is. Swapping the spacers around is cheap. You may find your reach changes a bit too, but doing so is worth it. I found another 20 watts on what I thought was my best bike. You might too.

The other thing is the chamois half of your seat/chamois system. It could be either too much or not enough depending on a variety of factors. I find some kit works better on some bikes than others. You might try changing it up a bit.

Being passable for 90% of your riding is good, but it's that last 10% that really makes the details important.

smashndash

I'll end the speculation. 3. It's 3. I'm extremely sensitive to *everything*. Light, sound, motion, vibration, drag, you name it. When I'm walking around school, I keep my hood up, headphones in, looking at the ground because I don't like being overly stimulated. Maybe I'm in the wrong sport, then, but that's just what it is. I understand if you think I should just harden up but... that's just not who I am.

smashndash

My grip tape is already Cinelli cork gel and my gloves are specialized gel padded. However, the issue now is that it's hard to reach my brake levers from the drops even with the reach dialed in all the way (small hands). Also sprinting feels weird with so much material between me and the bars so I'm gonna be going closer to raw, unfortunately.

The roads here in San Diego are utter trash. Everyone agrees. They're not quite third world, but we frequently don't even bother pointing out holes. I like to say it's more efficient to point out the roads around the cracks and holes - and we kind of do by following each others' lines.

I don't put out a lot of power (est 190-200W ftp based on talking to people with power meters and looking at strava times - but at 135lbs it gets me places) so I put very little weight on my pedals as is. But I also pull up decently hard which negates some butt-weight savings. That being said, I am saving up for a big ****** fit because I've had a lot nagging issues. I have a hunch that I'm slightly too far back and low on the bike, even for my power level. I'd say I already ride in a pretty aggressive position (more aggressive than a lot of racers) so I don't know if adding more reach or drop will help me go faster.

The general vibe I'm getting is that there's not much I can do to eke out more compliance from my bike and maybe it's time to start looking at other ways to get comfortable on the bike or to just accept this as normal.

TiHabanero

Have used ti railed saddles, aluminum railed saddles, magnesium railed saddles, and steel railed saddles all on the same bike and was unable to determine any difference between the rail materials as far as comfort was concerned. The seat pan, shape and padding will have a large impact on comfort and compliance. FWIW, the Brooks Cambium saddles with cutout are very flexible and forgiving.

Seattle Forrest

I know there have been tests on this, but don't have a link handy and I'm on my phone.

Posts with setback transmit a little less than ones without. I think the FSA was determined as the most comfortable. It was a while ago and I don't remember how the test was done, maybe someone else can comment.

Seattle Forrest

​​​​​​I think I've had all of those types over the years too. There's no way I could guess what material the saddle rails we made from based on ride quality. I've had pillows and I've had ass hatchets, but it's always the shape and fit that makes a saddle comfortable for me.

Really love my Fabric Scoop. I've been told the Fabric people are getting to be as annoying as the Brooks folks.

63rickert

Haven't looked at this a couple days. Wow, you are light. That alone is reason for custom. Production bikes are not made for you. Saddles are not made for you. Really nothing is made for you. A lot of this you will just have to figure out for yourself. We don't have the same experience you do.

Look at old stuff. You don't have to buy old stuff, just look at it. People used to be smaller. Then watch old race video. Film. There are outliers like Jean Robic. Won the Tour de France and never had a bike that fit or close to it. He was a good bit smaller than you (his official numbers are BS, the guy was tiny). There were a lot of guys in the peloton at 135 and even less. Watch how the little guys ride. It's just different. You sound very determined. You will get there.