Why to people ride opposite traffic?
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#52
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Best answer I've ever found is the misapplication theory that the asphalt pavement is 'softer' and more forgiving on your joints. The running world has extrapolated this from roadway design in that road are designed to hold certain loads, and any loads over that amount (like a heavily-laden truck) will 'flex' the asphalt; that's why you see a lot of roads with load-limit signs. a 150lb runner extrapolates that the asphalt is softer, and will provide some joint 'cushioning' thatwill benefit him/her. However, they are extrapolating too far in that the 'flex' or 'cushion' only applies when you get to loads in the thousnads of pounds of weight.
Also, there's a lot of stuff to wak/jog into when you're not paying attention due to having your smartphone's headphones on full blast.
Also, there's a lot of stuff to wak/jog into when you're not paying attention due to having your smartphone's headphones on full blast.
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I see many "casual" riders that ride facing traffic. Many are adults but some are kids. The do it not only on residential streets but on streets with 2 lanes each way, parked cars and cars going over 40mph.
Well today I saw someone get hit by a car making a right turn from a side street. This is at least the 10th time i've seen this. The driver approaches the intersection, looks left for traffic as they roll past the stop line and never sees the rider coming from the right.
New York State law states that cyclists need to ride in the same direction as cars.
So why do people feel safer when they are not?
BTW, the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and called his wife to come and get him. The driver was more shaken up. They were both VERY LUCKY.
Well today I saw someone get hit by a car making a right turn from a side street. This is at least the 10th time i've seen this. The driver approaches the intersection, looks left for traffic as they roll past the stop line and never sees the rider coming from the right.
New York State law states that cyclists need to ride in the same direction as cars.
So why do people feel safer when they are not?
BTW, the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and called his wife to come and get him. The driver was more shaken up. They were both VERY LUCKY.
And not just any accident. 10 alone in this exact scenario?
Wow...
#54
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Even riding with traffic i've seen many close calls.
Long Island is the home of the distracted driver and most drive large SUVs.
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I see many "casual" riders that ride facing traffic. Many are adults but some are kids. The do it not only on residential streets but on streets with 2 lanes each way, parked cars and cars going over 40mph.
Well today I saw someone get hit by a car making a right turn from a side street. This is at least the 10th time i've seen this. The driver approaches the intersection, looks left for traffic as they roll past the stop line and never sees the rider coming from the right.
New York State law states that cyclists need to ride in the same direction as cars.
So why do people feel safer when they are not?
BTW, the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and called his wife to come and get him. The driver was more shaken up. They were both VERY LUCKY.
Well today I saw someone get hit by a car making a right turn from a side street. This is at least the 10th time i've seen this. The driver approaches the intersection, looks left for traffic as they roll past the stop line and never sees the rider coming from the right.
New York State law states that cyclists need to ride in the same direction as cars.
So why do people feel safer when they are not?
BTW, the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and called his wife to come and get him. The driver was more shaken up. They were both VERY LUCKY.
After some time, he switched his argument to "when we was kids, they taught us to ride facing traffic so you can see the cars. That seems safer to me because you could get out of the way if one was coming at you." I just shrugged and told him that multiple organizations have published the recommendation to ride with traffic because it prevents exactly the kind of conflict OP mentioned and has many other benefits that far outweigh the concern of not being able to see a threat from a car. Unfortunately, too many people seem to share that old-timer's misinformed & outdated viewpoint, and it seems that they have handed that foolishness down to their offspring.
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Well, actually, riding is NYC is exactly the prototypical experience for most major cities. NYC built their bike infrastructure based on what other major cities like London, Amsterdam, & Copenhagen have done to successfully incorporate cycling as a practical transportation option for their residents. Across the USA, other major cities have either led or followed NYC's example of supporting cyclists as well, e.g. Washington, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Portland, Phoenix, etc. If you travel to any of those cities, you will see the same elements used to incorporate bicycles into the transportation planning: bike lanes, bike share bikes, buses & trains with bike racks added, and dedicated bike paths.
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Sorry.. couldn't help it; this popped into my head from a long ago high school reading assignment..
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#58
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I'm out in the suburbs of NYC. North Jersey. And I am always amazed at how many people I see riding against traffic. If they happen to be on my side of the road, I'll make a point of letting them know they are riding on the wong side of the road. I don't know how or when I learned but I've always known that you walk against traffic and bike with traffic. Ironically, the law happens to agree with me. Think about it from a practical standpoint. I sort of understand the concept of wanting to be able to see someone coming at you before hitting you instead of someone coming up behind you before hitting you but the simple laws of phyics and momentum say that if you are hit by a car when your speed riding against traffic, you have the combination of the force of the car PLUS the force of you riding which exponentially increases the likelihood of serious injury or worse. When you ride with traffic the speed of the car that hits you is reduced by your speed since you are moving with it, which means you might just be nudged a bit and may then lose control and ride up the curb and fall while moving at your own speed. Likelihood of serious injury is reduced. It doesn't mean you can't be seriously hurt that way. Just less likely. T'hen there's the whole insurance issue. If you get hit and you are riding in the wrong direction, your case will be complicated by that fact and may result in you getting nothing from the driver's insurance company towards your injuries. Bottom line is know the laws of the road as it relates to bikes and follow them. It just may save your life.
Last edited by MntnMan62; 09-14-20 at 02:22 PM.
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“They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
Sorry.. couldn't help it; this popped into my head from a long ago high school reading assignment..
Sorry.. couldn't help it; this popped into my head from a long ago high school reading assignment..
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#60
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After my 9 month British Isles Pub Session Crawl-Tour, when back in this Drive Right side country , again ,
when I saw an oncoming car on a narrow lane I had to unlearn the reflex to move to the left side of the road , quickly,
to instead go to the right side of the road..
when I saw an oncoming car on a narrow lane I had to unlearn the reflex to move to the left side of the road , quickly,
to instead go to the right side of the road..
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“They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.”
Sorry.. couldn't help it; this popped into my head from a long ago high school reading assignment..
Sorry.. couldn't help it; this popped into my head from a long ago high school reading assignment..
#63
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Speaking as a former triathlete and still-occasional runner, I would avoid sidewalks because they are generally
- uneven due to root heaves and driveway cutouts
- used by walkers, nearly all on their phones, many with dogs
- much harder on the joints than asphalt
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I used to think it was safer when I was a kid and riding on secondary and tertiary streets in my neighborhood and sidewalks on primary streets. But as I've gotten older an began riding on busier roads with the flow of traffic is clearly the way to go.
I see many "casual" riders that ride facing traffic. Many are adults but some are kids. The do it not only on residential streets but on streets with 2 lanes each way, parked cars and cars going over 40mph.
Well today I saw someone get hit by a car making a right turn from a side street. This is at least the 10th time i've seen this. The driver approaches the intersection, looks left for traffic as they roll past the stop line and never sees the rider coming from the right.
New York State law states that cyclists need to ride in the same direction as cars.
So why do people feel safer when they are not?
BTW, the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and called his wife to come and get him. The driver was more shaken up. They were both VERY LUCKY.
Well today I saw someone get hit by a car making a right turn from a side street. This is at least the 10th time i've seen this. The driver approaches the intersection, looks left for traffic as they roll past the stop line and never sees the rider coming from the right.
New York State law states that cyclists need to ride in the same direction as cars.
So why do people feel safer when they are not?
BTW, the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and called his wife to come and get him. The driver was more shaken up. They were both VERY LUCKY.
#66
Senior Member
Where I live, stupidity and/or ignorance reigns supreme! Fortunately, a good share of those folks don't ride bikes. Those that do (they definitely have a certain look) are inherently the ones on the "wrong" side of the road/street AND (wait for it) NOT wearing a helmet!!
#67
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#68
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Maybe I missed it - but whats wrong with riding against traffic?
I haven't but I am seriously considering. The past few years I have seen a lot of people sway left/right onto the next lane while deeply immersed into their mobile phones. Unfortunately this is often - worryingly often.
Which brings me to think that maybe one of those inconsiderate buffoons may side swipe into the shoulder and hit me.
I installed a wing mirror and it brings some relief.
But again, I may have missed it, but whats wrong with riding against traffic? How does it affect my riding or the the flow of vehicle traffic?
I haven't but I am seriously considering. The past few years I have seen a lot of people sway left/right onto the next lane while deeply immersed into their mobile phones. Unfortunately this is often - worryingly often.
Which brings me to think that maybe one of those inconsiderate buffoons may side swipe into the shoulder and hit me.
I installed a wing mirror and it brings some relief.
But again, I may have missed it, but whats wrong with riding against traffic? How does it affect my riding or the the flow of vehicle traffic?
Last edited by hedonist222; 09-20-20 at 12:31 AM.
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Maybe I missed it - but whats wrong with riding against traffic?
I haven't but I am seriously considering. The past few years I have seen a lot of people sway left/right onto the next lane while deeply immersed into their mobile phones. Unfortunately this is often - worryingly often.
Which brings me to think that maybe one of those inconsiderate buffoons may side swipe into the shoulder and hit me.
I installed a wing mirror and it brings some relief.
But again, I may have missed it, but whats wrong with riding against traffic? How does it affect my riding or the the flow of vehicle traffic?
I haven't but I am seriously considering. The past few years I have seen a lot of people sway left/right onto the next lane while deeply immersed into their mobile phones. Unfortunately this is often - worryingly often.
Which brings me to think that maybe one of those inconsiderate buffoons may side swipe into the shoulder and hit me.
I installed a wing mirror and it brings some relief.
But again, I may have missed it, but whats wrong with riding against traffic? How does it affect my riding or the the flow of vehicle traffic?
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clists traveling against the direction of traffic
flow are at greatly increased risk for accidents—
on average 3.6 times the risk of those traveling
with traffic, and as high as 6.6 times for those 17
and under. This result is readily explained:
because motorists normally scan for traffic trav-
eling in the lawful direction, wrong-way traffic
is easily overlooked. To give only a single
example, a motorist turning right at an intersec-
tion scans to the left for approaching traffic on
the new road, and cannot see or anticipate a fast-
moving wrong-way bicyclist approaching from
the right. (This is the one of the most common
types of bicycle-motor vehicle collisions in Palo
Alto.)"
https://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/Accident-Study.pdf
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#72
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BTW... in many states it's illegal to ride into traffic. So unless you think laws are suggestions, do what you like, most people do.
#73
Senior Member
"Table 4 shows that all categories of bicy-
clists traveling against the direction of traffic
flow are at greatly increased risk for accidents—
on average 3.6 times the risk of those traveling
with traffic, and as high as 6.6 times for those 17
and under. This result is readily explained:
because motorists normally scan for traffic trav-
eling in the lawful direction, wrong-way traffic
is easily overlooked. To give only a single
example, a motorist turning right at an intersec-
tion scans to the left for approaching traffic on
the new road, and cannot see or anticipate a fast-
moving wrong-way bicyclist approaching from
the right. (This is the one of the most common
types of bicycle-motor vehicle collisions in Palo
Alto.)"
https://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/Accident-Study.pdf
clists traveling against the direction of traffic
flow are at greatly increased risk for accidents—
on average 3.6 times the risk of those traveling
with traffic, and as high as 6.6 times for those 17
and under. This result is readily explained:
because motorists normally scan for traffic trav-
eling in the lawful direction, wrong-way traffic
is easily overlooked. To give only a single
example, a motorist turning right at an intersec-
tion scans to the left for approaching traffic on
the new road, and cannot see or anticipate a fast-
moving wrong-way bicyclist approaching from
the right. (This is the one of the most common
types of bicycle-motor vehicle collisions in Palo
Alto.)"
https://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/Accident-Study.pdf
I had more of a road in mind with non-traffic-light junctions.
Nice 5 to 6 foot-wide shoulder
I very much do think certain laws are suggestions. As I'm more than certain that you do too
I detected a hint of snarkiness in your tone, so perhaps maybe not reply to my retort to you regarding between interpretation of certain laws.
If no snarkiness, then I apologize and keep the comments coming .
#74
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I see
I had more of a road in mind with non-traffic-light junctions.
Nice 5 to 6 foot-wide shoulder
No it doesn't. The brakes are hydraulic and begin to actuate a fifth into the pull.
I very much do think certain laws are suggestions. As I'm more than certain that you do too
I detected a hint of snarkiness in your tone, so perhaps maybe not reply to my retort to you regarding between interpretation of certain laws.
If no snarkiness, then I apologize and keep the comments coming .
I had more of a road in mind with non-traffic-light junctions.
Nice 5 to 6 foot-wide shoulder
No it doesn't. The brakes are hydraulic and begin to actuate a fifth into the pull.
I very much do think certain laws are suggestions. As I'm more than certain that you do too
I detected a hint of snarkiness in your tone, so perhaps maybe not reply to my retort to you regarding between interpretation of certain laws.
If no snarkiness, then I apologize and keep the comments coming .
Last edited by GlennR; 09-20-20 at 09:32 AM.
#75
Senior Member
I see
I had more of a road in mind with non-traffic-light junctions.
Nice 5 to 6 foot-wide shoulder
No it doesn't. The brakes are hydraulic and begin to actuate a fifth into the pull.
I very much do think certain laws are suggestions. As I'm more than certain that you do too
I detected a hint of snarkiness in your tone, so perhaps maybe not reply to my retort to you regarding between interpretation of certain laws.
If no snarkiness, then I apologize and keep the comments coming .
I had more of a road in mind with non-traffic-light junctions.
Nice 5 to 6 foot-wide shoulder
No it doesn't. The brakes are hydraulic and begin to actuate a fifth into the pull.
I very much do think certain laws are suggestions. As I'm more than certain that you do too
I detected a hint of snarkiness in your tone, so perhaps maybe not reply to my retort to you regarding between interpretation of certain laws.
If no snarkiness, then I apologize and keep the comments coming .
Outside of intersections, you are still riding against traffic, and you are putting drivers in an unusual situation because they aren't expecting to have someone on the shoulder riding towards them. Right or wrong, unusual situations are risky because you never know how someone will react.
It is also putting other riders who are following traffic laws in an unusual situation when they find another rider coming towards them against traffic. I would expect that to throw me a bit, and it forces a pass when you meet rather than giving you an opportunity to wait for a safe time to pass if you are riding in the same direction.
And of course it also increases your closing speed in the event that you are hit.
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