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Reading dog behavior while riding

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Reading dog behavior while riding

Old 09-11-19, 07:46 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
I always feel a little bad when the short dogs come out. Their little legs just donít have the stride to do much more than make it off the porch before Iím gone
Some of the little dogs are surprisingly quite fast for a short distance as they were bred to chase down rodents and kill them in bunches (some terriers can kill several rats in one minute). This one only caught me because I was going up a fairly steep hill while she was cutting across in a relatively flat path. There were only about 15 feet between the front door and the road which she covered very fast.
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Old 09-11-19, 08:03 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
Last ride I did in Carroll County GA I got chased by 27 dogs total. 7 of which were aggressive enough that they tried to bite my shoes while I was still pedaling. Rural Georgia has a ton of kept strays and wild dogs, something that has to be experienced to be believed.
Wow, that has got to be some kind of a record. I'm averaging 1 to 3 incidents per ride here in rural western Indiana. My countermeasures so far are outrunning or yelling commands. Still, it seems to be getting worse, I'm tempted by TimothyH's pepper spray advice. Holding me back from that is angering the owners, I ride evening and night and I am the only road cyclist in the county at those times as far as I know (never seen anyone else).
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Old 09-11-19, 08:21 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by 55murray View Post
Wow, that has got to be some kind of a record. I'm averaging 1 to 3 incidents per ride here in rural western Indiana. My countermeasures so far are outrunning or yelling commands. Still, it seems to be getting worse, I'm tempted by TimothyH's pepper spray advice. Holding me back from that is angering the owners, I ride evening and night and I am the only road cyclist in the county at those times as far as I know (never seen anyone else).
Heck, forget angering the owners, what about angering all the posters here who think all dogs are noble, saintly creatures whose name ought to be spelled backwards, who would never ever attack a human unless provoked, and even then reluctantly, knowing full well they'll feel guilty about it for months afterwards despite going to Confession.
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Old 09-11-19, 08:32 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by 55murray View Post
Wow, that has got to be some kind of a record. I'm averaging 1 to 3 incidents per ride here in rural western Indiana. My countermeasures so far are outrunning or yelling commands. Still, it seems to be getting worse, I'm tempted by TimothyH's pepper spray advice. Holding me back from that is angering the owners, I ride evening and night and I am the only road cyclist in the county at those times as far as I know (never seen anyone else).
It was bizarre, never experienced anything close on any previous ride. I also ordered the same pepper spray and have the same reservations as well. We'll see how it goes but I'm hoping it was an anomaly and won't be a sign of things to come as I am interested in really getting to know the gravel roads in the area.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:04 AM
  #80  
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I have a few dogs on my regular routes that are well known. There is one little mutt who is never chained up who loves to run alongside side of us and bark. It is harmless and just a dog having fun. There are a few others behind fences that have gotten to realize that the contraption passing by talks to them nicely. They bark, but they are just being dogs. I then got tag teamed by 2 aggressive dogs a couple miles down the road on which we live. How I managed to get away unscathed is beyond me. Animal control paid their owner a visit.

Other than those, it is the loose ones that I an unfamiliar with that are the problems. Some you can read while others can mean serious problems. There are 2 tactics.
1 - Yell, "No!" Of all of the negative words in the human language that dogs hear, "No" is heard by dogs more than any other word. Sometimes it gets through.
2 - Pepper spray. If a dog is close enough, it will get sprayed. I've had dogs break off immediately when they see an object in my hand or hear the hiss of spray.

I had a border collie mix come out at me one day and the owner yelled, "She doesn't bite". I could give the south end of a north bound rat about whether it bites or not. A few years ago, a week before flying to Canada for a long bikepacking trip, I had a border collie charge in front of me and put me down on the pavement. Bites suck, but broken bones are much much worse.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:14 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
Dogs are better than people. I never had any real problem even with the most vile dog that i have encountered. It just barked at me and i slowly passed it by walking. They are just protecting their territory. If a dog is not crazy or not "raised" crazy, it will never try to bite you unless you threaten it or try to "run away" from it. Running from a dog triggers its hunter instict. You should stand your ground and move slowly. Do not turn your back on a dog. It will leave you alone once you are out of its territory.

PS: I have survived encounters with more than 10 dogs attacking me in rural areas. I know what i am talking about. More dogs, less men. That is my motto.
There are times when you can outrun them. They're just running an intruder off their territory, so they won't go far beyond that. Typically less than a city block.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:19 AM
  #82  
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I prefer to consider all dogs, no matter how well trained and cared for, as "notional." I recall a line from an otherwise forgotten cartoon, in which one dog says to another: "Something just snapped in my head. Must have been the call of the wild." Whenever I see an unleashed or unfenced dog, I assume the dog will come after me.

So far, I've been able to outrun every dog that's chased me. I do worry about running over one, or having one try to bite my wheel when "something snaps in its head."

Something I don't think anyone has mentioned: Even the best tuned bike makes sounds we cannot hear, but dogs can. Those sounds may be provoking to a dog.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:32 AM
  #83  
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I was an unbroken champion of dog sprints until I started riding gravel. Now I'm like 8-42-20 and have even been beaten by a herd of cows
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Old 09-11-19, 10:05 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
There are times when you can outrun them. They're just running an intruder off their territory, so they won't go far beyond that. Typically less than a city block.
I wouldn't risk it. I am never in a hurry on my bike. I actually like to talk to them. They bark at me and i talk to them. Sometimes i can see in their eyes that they actually understand i don't mean any harm. Some of them are so clever, it is really interesting to see their reactions. I like to interact with dogs, even the angry ones. It is harder for me to interact with people.
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Old 09-11-19, 10:18 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
I wouldn't risk it. I am never in a hurry on my bike.
Its about rapidly getting out of danger as soon as possible. Not about general hurriedness.
I actually like to talk to them. They bark at me and i talk to them. Sometimes i can see in their eyes that they actually understand i don't mean any harm. Some of them are so clever, it is really interesting to see their reactions. I like to interact with dogs, even the angry ones. It is harder for me to interact with people.
Good luck with that.
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Old 09-11-19, 10:30 AM
  #86  
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An American Pit Bull Terrier can easily run 1/4 mile @ 25 MPH.

There are much faster breeds.


-Tim-
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Old 09-11-19, 12:06 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
An American Pit Bull Terrier can easily run 1/4 mile @ 25 MPH.

There are much faster breeds.


-Tim-
They were banned in the UK years ago under the Dangerous Dogs Act ... maybe you should start a petition to get them banned over there as well. Personally I have absolutely no time for a breed that's known to be vicious nor generally the type of person that favours keeping them as a so called pet.

I have a Labrador for a reason .... they're only known to lick you to death.
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Old 09-11-19, 01:02 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Its about rapidly getting out of danger as soon as possible. Not about general hurriedness. Good luck with that.
If you think you can outrun (outcycle, outride whatever) a dog, you are delusional. Most of the times you think you avoided a dog attack by pedalling harder is actually that dog "letting you be". Most dog breeds can run faster than you can ride your bike on flat ground. And you would have absolutely no chance uphill.

Apart from that, a dog is not a bear. Bears do attack and eat humans. You are in the menu for a bear. But dogs do not crave human flesh. All they are trying to do is to shoo you away from their territory. Dogs are territorial pack animals and their evolutionary history is tightly alligned with us since their geneology has diverged from the wolves thousands of years ago. When you make friends with a dog, he/she sees you as a part of his/her pack. And if you play your cards right, you might even be the alpha in that pack. Most dog breeds today are the outcome of our selective breeding. Most of them wouldn't even survive wihtout human intervention. Dogs can understand humans, they can sense how you feel. They can sense your intentions. And humans can actually understand and differentiate dog barks. You can think of it like a symbiotic relationship.

If you become real friends with a dog, you'd understand the meaning of true love. Not even your wife/husband would love you that much. If well trained, that dog would put his/her life in line for yours. As cyclists we should all understand that dogs are not our enemies. They are real simple animals, very easy to understand. Once you figure them out, it is not that hard to avoid their attacks.
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Old 09-11-19, 01:21 PM
  #89  
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It's fascinating how people from Georgia say that dogs in Georgia are a problem and people from other states tell us it isn't a problem or infer that it is our own fault.

I know a man who has a doctorate in Sacred Theology from the Pontifical University in Rome and people tell him he is wrong about theology.

I have a friend who was an engineer with Lockheed, worked with carbon fiber before anyone ever heard of it. Riders loved to tell him all about carbon fiber - how it works, what's wrong with it, what it is good for, etc.

I've been working with computer for 30 years and customers love to lecture me on how things should be done.

Credentials or credibility mean nothing nowadays. Everyone thinks they know better than those who have actual experience or bona fide credentials. Guys here would tell Edmund Hillary how Mt Everest should be climbed.
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Old 09-11-19, 01:44 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Heck, forget angering the owners, what about angering all the posters here who think all dogs are noble, saintly creatures whose name ought to be spelled backwards, who would never ever attack a human unless provoked, and even then reluctantly, knowing full well they'll feel guilty about it for months afterwards despite going to Confession.
Sarcasm is not your forte.

No one is arguing that all dogs are perfect, they are not.

Given a choice, however, I will almost always chose dogs over most humans.

But you go on and continue to carry on.
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Old 09-11-19, 01:49 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It's fascinating how people from Georgia say that dogs in Georgia are a problem and people from other states tell us it isn't a problem or infer that it is our own fault.
It's a psychological effect called the "fundamental attribution error". Those bad things that happen to me are a result of situational factors or just plain bad luck while bad things that happen to you are your fault.

There's so many people posting about this problem from Georgia that I'm convinced there's something weird going on there. Has anyone actually studied the problem?
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Old 09-11-19, 02:05 PM
  #92  
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People from Joja say their dogs are so tough. Ask UGA how his meeting with BEVO went last year....hahaha.
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Old 09-11-19, 03:59 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
If you think you can outrun (outcycle, outride whatever) a dog, you are delusional. Most of the times you think you avoided a dog attack by pedalling harder is actually that dog "letting you be". Most dog breeds can run faster than you can ride your bike on flat ground. And you would have absolutely no chance uphill.

Apart from that, a dog is not a bear. Bears do attack and eat humans. You are in the menu for a bear. But dogs do not crave human flesh. All they are trying to do is to shoo you away from their territory. Dogs are territorial pack animals and their evolutionary history is tightly alligned with us since their geneology has diverged from the wolves thousands of years ago. When you make friends with a dog, he/she sees you as a part of his/her pack. And if you play your cards right, you might even be the alpha in that pack. Most dog breeds today are the outcome of our selective breeding. Most of them wouldn't even survive wihtout human intervention. Dogs can understand humans, they can sense how you feel. They can sense your intentions. And humans can actually understand and differentiate dog barks. You can think of it like a symbiotic relationship.

If you become real friends with a dog, you'd understand the meaning of true love. Not even your wife/husband would love you that much. If well trained, that dog would put his/her life in line for yours. As cyclists we should all understand that dogs are not our enemies. They are real simple animals, very easy to understand. Once you figure them out, it is not that hard to avoid their attacks.
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Old 09-11-19, 04:51 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
There's so many people posting about this problem from Georgia that I'm convinced there's something weird going on there. Has anyone actually studied the problem?
I don't know anything about the people that are posting saying there's a problem with dogs in their area and if they're dog lovers / owners or if they don't like ... and ... or .... are afraid of dogs.

It'd be really interesting to send these people for a ride with a video recorder on the routes they have problems and then send dog lovers / trainers on the exact same routes and see if they suffer the same "attention" or if they ride past without a problem.

Dogs ... I believe sense either positive or negative and the grey bit in between is totally lost to them. If you're scared of them (which I was as a kid) they see it as sending out negative / threatening vibes so give chase and bark near their territory to scare you off. .... It's like any animal bigging itself up so you don't attack it.

A dog lover cycling past 5 minutes later might get the exact same dog running out and take the welcoming ... "Oh hello gorgeous" attitude and stop to stroke it because they love them and he'll probably roll on his back and let you tickle his tummy ... especially if you happen to have a treat to hand.

Don't anybody take this the wrong way ... if you're scared of and not used to being round dogs it's not an instinct that kicks in naturally ... it's only since I've had dogs I realised the difference and it was only by owning a dog (from a tiny puppy ... non threatening) that it stops you being scared of them.

That in itself gives you the confidence that makes you pack leader and even with a strange dog that when you say NO they understand that if don't obey they could be in real trouble .... not you.

That said ..... Just because you cycle you shouldn't have to go get a dog to have that faith ... I also think it's totally unreasonable that any dog owner should allow their dog outside of their property unsupervised as they should be "under your control".
I believe the law in the UK is that if a dog attacks and bites someone without provocation they're likely to be put down ... it's one heck on an incentive for someone with a dog that may "turn" to at least muzzle them and keep them within their own property.

Lastly .. I wish I could pick up a magic wand and give people that aren't dog owners the confidence and understanding of dogs I didn't have 15 years ago but do now .... and with the same stroke of the wand make irresponsible dog owners wake up and smell the coffee (because I get tarred with the same brush and they're a pain in the ,,,, ) ... but hey ... welcome to the real world.
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Old 09-11-19, 05:31 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I don't know anything about the people that are posting saying there's a problem with dogs in their area and if they're dog lovers / owners or if they don't like ... and ... or .... are afraid of dogs.

It'd be really interesting to send these people for a ride with a video recorder on the routes they have problems and then send dog lovers / trainers on the exact same routes and see if they suffer the same "attention" or if they ride past without a problem.

Dogs ... I believe sense either positive or negative and the grey bit in between is totally lost to them. If you're scared of them (which I was as a kid) they see it as sending out negative / threatening vibes so give chase and bark near their territory to scare you off. .... It's like any animal bigging itself up so you don't attack it.

A dog lover cycling past 5 minutes later might get the exact same dog running out and take the welcoming ... "Oh hello gorgeous" attitude and stop to stroke it because they love them and he'll probably roll on his back and let you tickle his tummy ... especially if you happen to have a treat to hand.

Don't anybody take this the wrong way ... if you're scared of and not used to being round dogs it's not an instinct that kicks in naturally ... it's only since I've had dogs I realised the difference and it was only by owning a dog (from a tiny puppy ... non threatening) that it stops you being scared of them.

That in itself gives you the confidence that makes you pack leader and even with a strange dog that when you say NO they understand that if don't obey they could be in real trouble .... not you.

That said ..... Just because you cycle you shouldn't have to go get a dog to have that faith ... I also think it's totally unreasonable that any dog owner should allow their dog outside of their property unsupervised as they should be "under your control".
I believe the law in the UK is that if a dog attacks and bites someone without provocation they're likely to be put down ... it's one heck on an incentive for someone with a dog that may "turn" to at least muzzle them and keep them within their own property.

Lastly .. I wish I could pick up a magic wand and give people that aren't dog owners the confidence and understanding of dogs I didn't have 15 years ago but do now .... and with the same stroke of the wand make irresponsible dog owners wake up and smell the coffee (because I get tarred with the same brush and they're a pain in the ,,,, ) ... but hey ... welcome to the real world.
You missed one thing: you don't have to be afraid of dogs, all that is necessary is that they startle or surprise you, which causes a natural instant of fear (or near enough) that the dog can sense. At that point, you have a problem, possibly even with a normally well behaved dog.
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Old 09-11-19, 05:50 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
There's so many people posting about this problem from Georgia that I'm convinced there's something weird going on there. Has anyone actually studied the problem?
Weíre over represented because itís rare to have two gravel riders who deliberately seek out remote routes in rural areas posting on the forum. Most riders donít go so far and wide and/or post online.

I know from driving around as well as talking with riders from Alabama that that state is much worse for loose aggressive dogs. But they donít really have any posters here. Alabama is the only state where my car has been attacked by dogs not once or twice but three different times. I donít ride much there myself and itís not a competition just thoughts on the subject.
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Old 09-11-19, 06:06 PM
  #97  
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like dogs, have a dog that I love, but the pepper spray is going with me period. If the owners are a problem I guess I'll deal with that too
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Old 09-11-19, 07:17 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I don't know anything about the people that are posting saying there's a problem with dogs in their area and if they're dog lovers / owners or if they don't like ... and ... or .... are afraid of dogs.

It'd be really interesting to send these people for a ride with a video recorder on the routes they have problems and then send dog lovers / trainers on the exact same routes and see if they suffer the same "attention" or if they ride past without a problem.

Dogs ... I believe sense either positive or negative and the grey bit in between is totally lost to them. If you're scared of them (which I was as a kid) they see it as sending out negative / threatening vibes so give chase and bark near their territory to scare you off. .... It's like any animal bigging itself up so you don't attack it.

A dog lover cycling past 5 minutes later might get the exact same dog running out and take the welcoming ... "Oh hello gorgeous" attitude and stop to stroke it because they love them and he'll probably roll on his back and let you tickle his tummy ... especially if you happen to have a treat to hand.

Don't anybody take this the wrong way ... if you're scared of and not used to being round dogs it's not an instinct that kicks in naturally ... it's only since I've had dogs I realised the difference and it was only by owning a dog (from a tiny puppy ... non threatening) that it stops you being scared of them.

That in itself gives you the confidence that makes you pack leader and even with a strange dog that when you say NO they understand that if don't obey they could be in real trouble .... not you.

That said ..... Just because you cycle you shouldn't have to go get a dog to have that faith ... I also think it's totally unreasonable that any dog owner should allow their dog outside of their property unsupervised as they should be "under your control".
I believe the law in the UK is that if a dog attacks and bites someone without provocation they're likely to be put down ... it's one heck on an incentive for someone with a dog that may "turn" to at least muzzle them and keep them within their own property.

Lastly .. I wish I could pick up a magic wand and give people that aren't dog owners the confidence and understanding of dogs I didn't have 15 years ago but do now .... and with the same stroke of the wand make irresponsible dog owners wake up and smell the coffee (because I get tarred with the same brush and they're a pain in the ,,,, ) ... but hey ... welcome to the real world.
No, sorry, but I'm a big dog lover and that's just a load of horse crap. Some dogs that are out running loose are just plain mean, and you're just lucky enough never to have encountered one. They will attack you before you are even aware of their presence so this supposed display of fear couldn't even be a factor. You're just displaying a great example of the fundamental attribution error I discussed above.

I'm not sure why you're circling back to this absurd position, you apologized once for going overboard after seeing videos showing just how bad some of these attacks have been.
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Old 09-11-19, 09:59 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
If you think you can outrun (outcycle, outride whatever) a dog, you are delusional. Most of the times you think you avoided a dog attack by pedalling harder is actually that dog "letting you be". Most dog breeds can run faster than you can ride your bike on flat ground. And you would have absolutely no chance uphill.
Did you read my full post? The dog is not racing you, he chasing you. Once you're out of his territory the chase is over.

Apart from that, a dog is not a bear. Bears do attack and eat humans. You are in the menu for a bear. But dogs do not crave human flesh. All they are trying to do is to shoo you away from their territory.
Bears attack for the same reasons dogs do. They will also protect their young. Man-eating bears are a rarity. If they hear you coming, they'll avoid human contact.
Dogs are territorial pack animals and their evolutionary history is tightly alligned with us since their geneology has diverged from the wolves thousands of years ago. When you make friends with a dog, he/she sees you as a part of his/her pack. And if you play your cards right, you might even be the alpha in that pack. Most dog breeds today are the outcome of our selective breeding. Most of them wouldn't even survive wihtout human intervention. Dogs can understand humans, they can sense how you feel. They can sense your intentions. And humans can actually understand and differentiate dog barks. You can think of it like a symbiotic relationship.
They can observe your behavior and respond in a basic similar manner.

If you become real friends with a dog, you'd understand the meaning of true love. Not even your wife/husband would love you that much. If well trained, that dog would put his/her life in line for yours. As cyclists we should all understand that dogs are not our enemies. They are real simple animals, very easy to understand. Once you figure them out, it is not that hard to avoid their attacks.
Anthropomorphism. This is classic when talking to dog owners. Dogs can imitate human behavior but they cannot experience feelings. Humans make the mistake of interpreting that behavior for emotions. But your dog has no more love for you than he does for a wooden stick or a doggie treat.
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Old 09-12-19, 02:02 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
No, sorry, but I'm a big dog lover and that's just a load of horse crap. Some dogs that are out running loose are just plain mean, and you're just lucky enough never to have encountered one. They will attack you before you are even aware of their presence so this supposed display of fear couldn't even be a factor. You're just displaying a great example of the fundamental attribution error I discussed above.

I'm not sure why you're circling back to this absurd position, you apologized once for going overboard after seeing videos showing just how bad some of these attacks have been.
Did you even bother reading the part I wrote
I also think it's totally unreasonable that any dog owner should allow their dog outside of their property unsupervised as they should be "under your control"
So there's some bad dogs with a highly aggressive attitude that will just start an unprovoked attack in a viscous way when it's totally unnecessary and that people generally have complete disdain for .... funnily enough there are some humans that are exactly the same .. some of which that are know to frequent cycling forums
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