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Campagnolo Record shifting problem

Old 01-09-20, 04:25 AM
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Spearmin
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Campagnolo Record shifting problem

Anyone have any idea what the problem is?
in addition to generally poor shifting, I have difficulty changing down to lower gears. To do so, I have to push the right-hand lever inwards and then the button repeatedly. If I am lucky, it clunks into a lower gear.
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Old 01-09-20, 08:32 AM
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Interesting...subscribed because I will be building a bike with campy soon.
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Old 01-09-20, 08:42 AM
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More information needed. How many speeds and how old and worn are the chain and cassette? Have you changed the cables and housing recently? Has the shifting been set up and adjusted properly (limit screws, cable tension, etc.) and by whom? Is this a new problem or has it been there all along?

Done properly Campy shifts very well and reliably.
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Old 01-09-20, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
More information needed. How many speeds and how old and worn are the chain and cassette? Have you changed the cables and housing recently? Has the shifting been set up and adjusted properly (limit screws, cable tension, etc.) and by whom? Is this a new problem or has it been there all along?

Done properly Campy shifts very well and reliably.
^^^ This

Question though HillRider (unrelated to above), how common (if at all) is there issues with the internal ratcheting system?
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Old 01-09-20, 10:54 AM
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The first thing to check: Make sure the cable isn't fraying at the "ball" end inside the shifter. I've had that happen a few times.
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Old 01-09-20, 10:59 AM
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Campy totally redesigned the shifter internals, late in 2008, for the 2009 model year, along with the introduction of 11 speed. The shifters made prior to that time have pointed tips on the brake hoods. Those were all repairable and would last for a very long time. The newer ultrashift model shifters are much simpler and also last a long time, but after only a couple of years, the small internal parts that might be needed for repairs, were no longer made available. After that time, a major assembly had to be purchased if something inside the lever body malfunctioned. Another change in 2015 made the new ultrashift levers and derailleurs incompatible with the earlier models.

I have always used the Ultrashift levers since 2008 and avoided the lower level escape or powershift models. Never had a problem with any of them, but I also have 2-3 bikes sharing my mileage and always buy the newest equipment, soon after it comes out. I just bought in to Chorus 12 speed last July and sold all of my 11 speed parts, some of which dated back to 2008. People tend to pay too much for used parts, so the conversion on two bikes really wasn't all that expensive. No regrets, so far.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 01-09-20 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 01-09-20, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Spearmin View Post
Anyone have any idea what the problem is?
in addition to generally poor shifting, I have difficulty changing down to lower gears. To do so, I have to push the right-hand lever inwards and then the button repeatedly. If I am lucky, it clunks into a lower gear.
It's probably a frayed shift cable.

Shifting gets a little sluggish, gets worse, can jam up entirely, and broken strands can spear your thumb drawing blood.

Keep track of your mileage between failures and change them before that point. That can vary from under 1500 to over 15,000 miles depending on how frequently you shift.

With 2009+ Ultrashift 11 speed levers, you can inspect them on a regular basis shifting to the small cog, lifting the back of the hood where it abuts the bar tape, and examining the cable laying in its guide. Make this a habit when you lubricate your chain.

With pointy hood 8-9 speed levers through 1997 having the cable housing entering vertically you can't do that.

I think the 1998-2008 round hood 9-10 speed levers have the newer cable guide configuration, but skipped over that generation.

Note where the cable runs in this photo from https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/wor...o-ergo-levers/. The cable section which gets bent around both the shift drum and guide flexes a lot and fails from fatigue.


Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-13-20 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 01-10-20, 04:05 AM
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Thanks for this. I'll take a look under the hood.
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Old 01-10-20, 01:07 PM
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One of the wrenches at the shop ran his Ultegra until the cable snapped in the shifter. Total PIA to get that leaded end out of the shift lever. Inspect often, replace before failure.
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Old 01-13-20, 02:19 AM
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I bought a Campag 11-speed Record groupset in 2014. I think it was the 2011 model. Housing not changed since fitting, rear mech cable changed a couple of years ago.Front mech changed last summer. Chain and cassette changed last summer. Tried to adjust myself.

Thanks
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Old 01-13-20, 08:38 AM
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My "round top" Chorus (1999 9 sp, retrofitted to 10 sp in 2004) tends to eat RD cables, with wear and fraying occurring right at the shifter, and stray strands poking out from under the hood when things have gone too far. Usual early manifestation is a sluggishness shifting into the smallest sprocket. No obvious burrs or snags to explain the wear, and the housing end is cut cleanly and cleaned up, so I think it's just a characteristic of the cable routing. So be it. I have taken to replacing the RD cable annually.
In your shoes, I would replace the RD cable, ensure it's well lubed, inspect the housing for problems or snagging (you may need to unwind the RHS bar tape to get a good look at the housing end), and set up the RD from scratch. Presumably you have a stand to allow running through the gears while adjusting?
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Old 01-13-20, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Spearmin View Post
I bought a Campag 11-speed Record groupset in 2014. I think it was the 2011 model. Housing not changed since fitting, rear mech cable changed a couple of years ago.[Front mech changed last summer. Chain and cassette changed last summer. Tried to adjust myself.

Thanks
I usually replace rear shift cables every 2000 miles to prevent breakage at 2200 - 2600 miles, but shift more when I'm out of shape and had issues at 1301 (broke completely) and 1558 (broken strands) miles. The last one made it to a normal 2186 miles.

Housing at the handlebar develops noticeable friction in a little less than double the time, and the rear loop a little more than double. To limit how often I take things apart I replace both at the same time as the cable. I keep that affordable using bulk Campagnolo housing, although Shimano at $1.80 a meter would cost even less.

That's every 10 weeks riding a lot, and still less than annually when barely riding.

Combining shifters level with the bar tops and under tape cable routing added a tight ninety degree shifter guide which doubled cable fatigue and cut life in half. Moving away from the flying housings caused the same problem with Shimano mechanical shifters.

How that translates into mileage varies with your shifting habits. I ride tight cassettes and maintain a metronomic cadence shifting like I have ADHD.


Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-13-20 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 01-13-20, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
No obvious burrs or snags to explain the wear, and the housing end is cut cleanly and cleaned up, so I think it's just a characteristic of the cable routing.
Wear comes from fatigue, like bending a paper clip back and forth until it breaks.

The cable makes tight bends going around the 90 degree guide and wrapping around the shift drum, so the section which comes off the drum then passes over the guide breaks first.

Adding the 90 degree guide to allow hoods level with bar tops and under tape routing cut cable life in half from when the only tight bend was winding around the shift drum.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-13-20 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 01-13-20, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
I usually replace rear shift cables every 2000 miles to prevent breakage at 2200 - 2600 miles, but shift more when I'm out of shape and had issues at 1301 (broke completely) and 1558 (broken strands) miles. The last one made it to a normal 2186 miles.

That's every 10 weeks riding a lot, and still less than annually when barely riding.

Combining shifters level with the bar tops and under tape cable routing added a tight ninety degree bend which doubled cable fatigue and cut life in half. Moving away from the flying housings caused the same problem with Shimano mechanical shifters.

How that translates into mileage varies with how much you shift.

My question is: how did you get that cable out in one piece? I always have to cut them at the frayed area.
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Old 01-13-20, 02:23 PM
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Poor shifting going "down", bigger to smaller cog, your cable is getting hung up.
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Old 01-13-20, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
My question is: how did you get that cable out in one piece? I always have to cut them at the frayed area.
I removed it immediately after shifting became a little off. The broken strands on the long end weren't standing too proud of the cable until I flexed it for illustrative purposes.

A little further and you need to unwind the long side damaged wires past where they're bent then snip them to fit the cable through the rear ratchet anchor hole.

When it breaks completely it can be a royal PITA to pull through the shifter prying on the cable head with something sharp and pointy. I haven't need to remove the rear ratchet yet, although it could probably get stuck enough that's necessary.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-13-20 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 01-13-20, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post

Note where the cable runs in this photo from https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/wor...o-ergo-levers/. The cable section which gets bent around both the shift drum and guide flexes a lot and fails from fatigue.

Drew I have 2015 Record shifters. The link above talks about being careful not to lose the pale yellow Teflon insert (see step 5). I donít see any pale yellow inserts on my shifters. What are they talking about?

Are they talking about the black insert below on mine?


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Old 01-13-20, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Drew I have 2015 Record shifters. The link above talks about being careful not to lose the pale yellow Teflon insert (see step 5). I don’t see any pale yellow inserts on my shifters. What are they talking about?

Are they talking about the black insert below on mine?


That's the insert in question. A finger on top will protect it from being dislodged installing a new cable from the bottom.
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Old 01-14-20, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
That's the insert in question. A finger on top will protect it from being dislodged installing a new cable from the bottom.
Drew thanks buddy. Iím in the learning phase of all things campy, I really appreciate your expertise and am learning a lot from you.
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Old 01-14-20, 12:58 PM
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Something is wrong when cables fail that soon. I've used campy for 25 years and never seen any hint of cable wear. I've ridden up to 6500 miles in a year, but I usually have two bikes and split the miles between them.
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Old 01-14-20, 02:17 PM
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Our shop mainly sells Shimano, and we see it all the time. Shift cables snap at the head inside the lever. There is a lot of stress on the cable in that area and the things simply fatigue and break. My son did not take my advice about replacing the shift wires every year and he spent a couple of hours fishing the cable end out of the 105 lever. He puts anywhere from 5000 to 7000 a year. He now does as father tells him! lol
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Old 01-15-20, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Something is wrong when cables fail that soon. I've used campy for 25 years and never seen any hint of cable wear. I've ridden up to 6500 miles in a year, but I usually have two bikes and split the miles between them.
It's a well known problem from the bend radiuses being tighter than mechanical engineering guidelines suggest for wire rope. Some people shift less and have no problems. Some shift more and measure cable life in months.

It got worse moving beyond pointy hood Campagnolo (1997 8/9 speed) and flying housing (e.g. 6500 series) Shimano brake/shift levers because of the extra 90 degree guide - that dropped my cable life from 4500 to under 2500 miles. Shift half as frequently and that gets you to 9,000/5,000, a quarter as often 18,000/10,000, an eighth 36,000/20,0000.

Before that change they'd break closer to the cable head; now it's a little higher on the cable section which incurs fatigue cycles winding around the drum and gliding around the tight 90 degree guide.

Modern high quality die drawn cables also cut the fatigue life because they're cold worked.

FBinNY suggests "Overall gear cable life depends on where you live and how you ride. It's measured not in days or miles but in the number of shift cycles. Interestingly, people in fairly flat areas may have the shortest life because they might be shifting back and forth between two or three gears, which means that they're always flexing the wire in the same place."

I ride in the same low traffic flat spot for 1-2 hours a day before work with metronomic cadence.

Most of the failures are Shimano because that's what most people ride; although it's the same geometry problem.


https://durhamcycles.com/frayed-cables-frayed-nerves/
Suggests "Shimano and Campy riders should change rear shifter cables every three months under heavy use (200+ miles per week), every six months under light use. You may get longer out of your cables, but if you want to limit the risk of cable failure during a race or event frequent changes are recommended." Three months at 200 miles per week is 2400 miles.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...s-fraying.html
Campagnolo cables fray every 2000 miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...e-shimano.html
Shimano cables need changing every 2000 miles

Another 6700 setup that breaks cables in 2500-3000 miles

5800 shredded in 3000 miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...l#post21134710
broken in 3.5 - 4k miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...able-life.html
two broken cables in 4000 miles

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...28295&start=30
broke in 4000 miles
fail in 2400 - 3000 miles every 3-4 months
broke in 3600 miles
broke in 1500 miles, Shimano said the recommended replacement interval is 2500 miles
failed in just under 4000 miles

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...n-problem.html
broke in 3800 and 4400 miles

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-15-20 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 01-15-20, 08:34 AM
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I ride wildly varying terrain, so I shift a lot. No frayed cables on my Campy equipped bikes. The latest 12 speed campy cables are now teflon impregnated. That's what I use now.
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Old 02-13-20, 07:03 AM
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Hi Everyone,

Well, I finally took the bike to the LBS for a winter service, and I asked them to check the shifting problem. It was, as suggested above, a cable problem. They changed both inner and outer cables.

Thank you for all the great advice.
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