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Full Fenders with Minimal Tire Clearance

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Full Fenders with Minimal Tire Clearance

Old 01-14-20, 01:22 PM
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PeopleAreIdiots
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Full Fenders with Minimal Tire Clearance

I never really planned for fenders when I specced my bike originally but now I kinda like the idea of a clean drivetrain and dry feet. I would like to run full fenders. Can it be done? If so, how? Creative solutions welcome!

The pictures below are with my winter tires, 45NRTH xerxes 30c, Wabi special frame 55cm.



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Old 01-14-20, 08:31 PM
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There is not a great deal of clearance, and the aggressive knobs on the tires will facilitate gravel pick-up that could jam between the tire and the mudguard. At a minimum, this will cause a lot of noise as the gravel is pulled through to the end of the mudguard. Worst case, the wheel locks up. On a rear wheel, this will cause a skid, which you may be able to control. On a front wheel, this can cause a face-plant.

Less aggressive tire tread, narrower profile tires, and/or smaller radius wheels will minimize this risk.
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Old 01-15-20, 02:11 PM
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^ Everything John said. You donít want your username to apply to you, do you PeopleAreIdiots ?
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Old 01-16-20, 11:52 AM
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I mean obviously guys come on, I'm not that much of an idiot . I'm fishing for some crazy, out if the box, jury-rigged work-arounds here fellas! I'm sure this isn't an uncommon dilemma around here since most of us ride bikes with relatively limited clearance.
I can handle the boring solutions on my own : N+1 winter bike that i don't really need.
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Old 01-16-20, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PeopleAreIdiots View Post
I mean obviously guys come on, I'm not that much of an idiot . I'm fishing for some crazy, out if the box, jury-rigged work-arounds here fellas! I'm sure this isn't an uncommon dilemma around here since most of us ride bikes with relatively limited clearance.
I mentioned the work-arounds in my previous response: less aggressive tread, lower profile tires, and/or smaller radius wheels.

Anything else, you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.
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Old 01-16-20, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Anything else, you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.
Good point. I find it fun to scheme about these things though at least. I wonder if somebody has made some kind of bracket that can bypass the brake bridge so you can mount the fender a bit further from the tire. That's more the type of thing I'm envisioning.
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Old 01-16-20, 04:50 PM
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Maybe something like this? https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...65&category=79
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Old 01-16-20, 09:26 PM
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Where do you plan to ride the bike? On the road?

You sure don't have much room between that rear tire and the seatube. I think that between the seatube and brake bridge you might like a clip on fender that clips to the seatube. However that would not be a full fender going all the way to the chainstays. With those tires i think full fenders, knobs on the tire and a piece of strong road debris will equal tire lockup. If in snow or mud then you might get it so packed that the wheel won't turn. that happened to me once when i road through a park here and went off the paved trail. I didn't get far before the wheels wouldn't turn. And that was with less aggressive knobs on my Schwalbe 30mm CX Pro tires.

If your brake bride was straight I'd suggest maybe putting your rear fender over your brake bridge. I did that with one bike I had years ago. On the front fender I drilled a large hole in the top of the fender, removed the front fork and then took of the crown race, put the fender onto the fork and put the crown race back on over the fender and then put the fork back onto the bike. Lots of clearance then.

Cheers
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Old 01-16-20, 09:55 PM
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I don't think there's any hope with that frame, those tires, and a traditional full fender like the SKS Longboards or the PDW Full Metals. I have SKS, and although they're not bulky they would probably not work with that little clearance.

Something crazy, thinking out of the box... how about putting those tires on an inexpensive winter frame with adequate clearance? Nothing wrong with N+1 if it's to fill a need not met with your current assortment.

I really love riding my Synapse, but added the Quick for that reason; to meet some needs that weren't handled by the Synapse alone. The Quick is the bike I put mudgards on, for example.
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Old 01-16-20, 11:08 PM
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I've jammed 28's and fenders into 90's race bikes by using split fender brackets, which will solve your problem at the brake bridge and fork crown. I made my own by bending rear rack stays in a vice, but if i had to do it again I'd just order some from River City Bicycles.

You may have issues at the seat tube, I've solved this either by cutting the fender short so that it ends just above the closest point between the seat tube and tire, or by cutting a little window for the tire at this point, and keeping the normal attachment points. The first solution reduces coverage, subjecting your drivetrain and shoes to more tire spray, the second weakens the fender, which may or may not lead to it cracking, depending on fender material, how big a window you cut, and how har on the bike you are. If you get creative with zap straps and tubes you can make a very low-profile shield for the area where you lost coverage.

If you want to get funky with fenders, I suggest purchasing a Dremmel and developing buddhist monk level patience. Based on your pics, I see no reason why full fenders wouldn't fit that bike. It's just going to take some doing. I'd source some bolts with very low-profile heads, similar to a carriage bolt, to improve clearance inside the fender.


Smaller, less knobby tires, and less time on trails or snowpack will improve your chances of success. That being said, here's my setup, which never jammed in the snow:


Last edited by tashi; 01-16-20 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 01-16-20, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by seau grateau View Post
This worked for my kid's bike that has a fork with too little clearance. A Mtn bike rear fender might help.
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Old 01-17-20, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Where do you plan to ride the bike? On the road?
I ride this bike everywhere. But yeah, mostly paved surfaces. I live in Chicago so during the winter I'm frequently riding through snow banks and unshoveled, icy paths, hence the knobby tires.

Originally Posted by daoswald View Post
.
Something crazy, thinking out of the box... how about putting those tires on an inexpensive winter frame with adequate clearance? Nothing wrong with N+1 if it's to fill a need not met with your current assortment.
Yeah that's my reasonable option. Despite the fact that I'm constantly fantasizing over new parts and builds, I kinda like having only one bike actually

Originally Posted by tashi View Post
If you want to get funky with fenders, I suggest purchasing a Dremmel and developing buddhist monk level patience. Based on your pics, I see no reason why full fenders wouldn't fit that bike.
Now thats what Im talking about!
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Old 01-17-20, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by PeopleAreIdiots View Post
I ride this bike everywhere. But yeah, mostly paved surfaces. I live in Chicago so during the winter I'm frequently riding through snow banks and unshoveled, icy paths, hence the knobby tires.


Yeah that's my reasonable option. Despite the fact that I'm constantly fantasizing over new parts and builds, I kinda like having only one bike actually


Now thats what Im talking about!
If you're riding in deep snow or wet snow that packs easily (think snowball making snow) then I do NOT recommend close fitting fenders as they'll very quickly get packed with snow and if the wheels will still turn it'll be a real chore to pedal. That's the reason I fitted my fenders the way I did as described in a post of mine upthread.

Cheers
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Old 01-17-20, 11:08 AM
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You could run Race Blades, but those are only slightly better than running no fenders at all.

Best bet is to buy a frame with more clearance, or keep your frame and buy 25mm tires.
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Old 01-18-20, 10:31 AM
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While not a perfect solution, on one bike I mounted a rear fender above the brake bridge. There is also a front fender that starts behind the fork and doesn't actually go under it. You don't have any brakes to keep clean anyway.

https://www.amazon.com/SKS-S-Board-Front-Bicycle-Fender

Oops, noticed that Meile Man had the same idea.
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Old 01-18-20, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
I mounted a rear fender above the brake bridge
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
If you're riding in deep snow or wet snow that packs easily (think snowball making snow) then I do NOT recommend close fitting fenders as they'll very quickly get packed with snow and if the wheels will still turn it'll be a real chore to pedal.
Originally Posted by tashi View Post
I've jammed 28's and fenders into 90's race bikes by using split fender brackets ... here's my setup, which never jammed in the snow:
So what I'm hearing is basically that the real limiting factor has less to do with whether this can be done and more to do with whether or not it should.

I've never used fenders before, especially not in snow, so I don't really have a good frame of reference here. It sounds like fenders in snow isn't the best idea in general(?) Or is it more about making sure clearance is maximized?

The other thing I'm curious about is if went for this and retrofitted fenders to this bike, would I actually be able to tell a huge difference in rain and snow? Or would the costs (I'm speaking more in terms of ride quality/inefficiencies rather than monitarily) potentially outweigh the benefits compared to a seat tube mounted splashboard type fender (which is what I use now)?

For clarification, here are a couple more complicating factors of my build that I haven't mentioned:
1. The tires pictured I use only in winter. I'm ordinarily running 'non-knobby' 28c GP4Ks.
2. I have a front disc brake which may complicate front fender setup(?)
3. They way I have my gearing set up, I can switch between 17 and 19 tooth cogs using the same chain, however this obviously means shifting the wheel about 1cm or so back and forth in the dropouts.

Thanks for indulging me fellas!
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Old 01-18-20, 03:01 PM
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I run tight fender clearance on my winter bike (with studded tires) and have had it load up with snow and bog the bike down. Never locked up a wheel though.
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Old 01-18-20, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PeopleAreIdiots View Post
I've never used fenders before, especially not in snow, so I don't really have a good frame of reference here. It sounds like fenders in snow isn't the best idea in general(?) Or is it more about making sure clearance is maximized?
I definitely prefer to have fenders on my winter bike. In my locale, they spread a mixture of salt and sand on the streets, so it gets mixed with the slush and all gets slung up onto the bike. I rode my summer bike one day because I thought the streets were clear, and it was covered in sticky grit when I got home.

There's a tradeoff between clearance and protection. I think you generally want enough clearance so a "typical" piece of gravel stuck in your treads won't hit the fender. On the other hand, more coverage will keep your bike cleaner. I don't think it affects ride quality, especially given all of the other encumbrances such as bulky clothing, boots, and studded tires.

I'm afraid that my winter bike is no longer single speed. I just strung up an old Sturmey Archer 3 speed coaster hub for it. There's a hill where, if I stand up to pedal, I lose my traction, so having a lower gear helps me push through that stuff.
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Old 01-19-20, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
I definitely prefer to have fenders on my winter bike. In my locale, they spread a mixture of salt and sand on the streets, so it gets mixed with the slush and all gets slung up onto the bike. I rode my summer bike one day because I thought the streets were clear, and it was covered in sticky grit when I got home.
No sand here (on purpose at least, the lakefront bike path is another story!) but I can totally relate! Thats what I'm trying to avoid, especially since I finally picked up the sugino 75s I've been eyeing for over a year (along with a new chainring and chain). Everything is still so pristine, I dont want it to get trashed as much as the old ones were. Its really unavoidable if you want to ride in winter without fenders though.

Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
There's a tradeoff between clearance and protection. I think you generally want enough clearance so a "typical" piece of gravel stuck in your treads won't hit the fender. On the other hand, more coverage will keep your bike cleaner. I don't think it affects ride quality, especially given all of the other encumbrances such as bulky clothing, boots, and studded tires.
So how much space would you estimate I need with these tires on snowy pavement? Like half an inch all the way around? More?

Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
I'm afraid that my winter bike is no longer single speed. I just strung up an old Sturmey Archer 3 speed coaster hub for it. There's a hill where, if I stand up to pedal, I lose my traction, so having a lower gear helps me push through that stuff.
Cool. Not a bad choice of hub for bad weather if you ask me. When I rode in Pittsburgh I would always have issues with traction on hills in the snow. I find riding fixed really helpful for that though since you get more immediate road feedback. I just gear down in the winter in general for that reason.
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Old 01-21-20, 04:28 PM
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I'm approaching tire clearance limit on my Cannondale Topstone with the stock WTB Nano 700 x 40 tires. I am currently running the linked SKS Speedrocker fenders. There is not much clearance, but they are rock solid thus far. The rear is more of a challenge due to having to run the fender under my rack seat stay mounts, but it works.




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Old 01-22-20, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by westrid_dad View Post
ISKS Speedrocker fenders
fenders don't always have to be jammed between frame parts & tires. I have cut fenders (front & rear) & mounted them (w/ extra hardware) further away from the tires than a regular installation. the rears requiring additional customization. Your front fender mount (out-of-the-box) would save a ton of time & trouble! very nice !











at the seat tube I have used cut plastic









not elegant solutions, I know
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Old 01-22-20, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tashi View Post
here's my setup
love the front mud flap!
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Old 01-22-20, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PeopleAreIdiots View Post
Wabi special frame 55cm.
got a side pic of the front wheel & down tube?
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