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Freehub maintenance

Old 01-16-20, 01:33 PM
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msu2001la
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Freehub maintenance

My LBS did some work on my bike and said my rear freehub is completely corroded, the prawls and springs are apparently are corroded and not engaging correctly. This is on CX tubular race wheelset that saw a few super muddy races this year, but otherwise has fairly low mileage on them.

After muddy races I usually remove the chain and cassette, and clean everything up, reinstall and lube the drivetrain. I've never opened up the freehub before, but my LBS gave me the impression that this is something I should be doing as routine maintenance. This wheelset is a cartridge style bearing setup, but I have another Shimano wheelset that is a cup-and-cone type. Either way, I've always been under the impression that there's lots of little parts that can easily get messed up if not reinstalled correctly, so I've always been a little leery of opening it up.

Do people do routine maintenance/cleaning on their freehubs?
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Old 01-16-20, 01:55 PM
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Its normally not a routine thing to pull the freehub apart. In general I would say if you ride a lot then once a year, and probably leave it to the pro's as yes there are lots of things in there that can pop out.
For what its worth I have never seen the inside of a freehub in the area you are talking about (springs and pawls) being rusty. Normally in that area they get gunked up and need cleaning, greasing and putting back together.

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Old 01-16-20, 02:05 PM
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Best bet on free hubs is to remove them, remove any seals, soak in solvent and rinse. Then dribble some oil in. Reinstall.

There is little to be gained by taking one apart. To reassemble one, you pack it in grease to hold the bearings in place. Once reassembled, soak in solvent to remove the grease, then rinse and oil. And there are no tools for taking one apart. I've made my own out of curiosity of what they look like inside.

There is no shortage of freehubs in junk bins. Get a spare if you think you need one. Just replacing the freehub body is usually pretty simple.
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Old 01-16-20, 02:12 PM
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rickpaulos Are you talking about a spin on freewheel ? I have never heard of what you stated being done with a freehub body.
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Old 01-16-20, 02:33 PM
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Shimano freehub bodies can be rebuilt if you have the correct tool to remove the inner bearing cup which is reverse threaded. The bearings and pawls and springs have to be kept track of so if you are serious about it make sure you are prepared with a clean towel on top of your workbench in a well lit area when (or if) you set out to try to inspect your freehub internals.

But you say your hubs are not cup and cone, but sealed bearing. What brand are they?
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Old 01-17-20, 05:36 AM
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I rebuilt my Suntour Atom freehub. It wasn't a snap, but do-able.
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Old 01-17-20, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Shimano freehub bodies can be rebuilt if you have the correct tool to remove the inner bearing cup which is reverse threaded. The bearings and pawls and springs have to be kept track of so if you are serious about it make sure you are prepared with a clean towel on top of your workbench in a well lit area when (or if) you set out to try to inspect your freehub internals.

But you say your hubs are not cup and cone, but sealed bearing. What brand are they?
It's a Psimet (Psimet2001 ) wheelset. The LBS called Psimet and they told them they use this freehub: https://www.tokyowheel.com/products/freehub

When my LBS first called me, they said Psimet was checking to see if they could just send them parts to rebuild the springs/pawls. If they couldn't, my LBS was suggesting I just buy a new freehub directly from Tokyo Wheel and they would swap it out. Yesterday, they told me they were getting the necessary parts from Psimet, but I guess now that I say that I'm not totally sure if they're replacing individual parts, or just replacing the entire freehub.

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Old 01-17-20, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jbucky1 View Post
Its normally not a routine thing to pull the freehub apart. In general I would say if you ride a lot then once a year, and probably leave it to the pro's as yes there are lots of things in there that can pop out.
For what its worth I have never seen the inside of a freehub in the area you are talking about (springs and pawls) being rusty. Normally in that area they get gunked up and need cleaning, greasing and putting back together.

https://buckyrides.com/replacing-car...-carousel-5749

- james
My LBS said it didn't look like the free hub was sealed up properly and was allowing water/dirt into it. I don't know if this is because a seal was worn, or installed incorrectly. The wheels were brand new when I bought them, but they were purchased second-hand so I don't know the history of them. I've used them for 3 seasons of CX racing and occasional training rides, and never done any maintenance on them.

Originally Posted by rickpaulos View Post
Best bet on free hubs is to remove them, remove any seals, soak in solvent and rinse. Then dribble some oil in. Reinstall.

There is little to be gained by taking one apart. To reassemble one, you pack it in grease to hold the bearings in place. Once reassembled, soak in solvent to remove the grease, then rinse and oil. And there are no tools for taking one apart. I've made my own out of curiosity of what they look like inside.

There is no shortage of freehubs in junk bins. Get a spare if you think you need one. Just replacing the freehub body is usually pretty simple.
So the freehub body can be removed as a single piece without opening it up? This is probably what I should be doing... removing, soaking it, rinsing it out and putting it back on.
I guess I never realized this part could be easily removed and replaced. This would also replace the outer body part that gets chewed up by the cassette and makes it hard to slide on and off, right?

So, follow up question... can I install any free hub body on this wheelset? Or do I have to buy this particular one from Tokyo Wheel (which I've never heard of)?
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Old 01-17-20, 09:59 AM
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I just serviced a FH body (replaced it's cartridge bearings) designed very similarly to the imaged one. The condition of the splines, the ratchet contact points and the rest of the wheel made this servicing the long term and cost effective to deal with the problem. The problem was that the FH bearings had seized tight and there was coasting any longer. The rider had used the wheels on his vacation tour last summer and had set them aside since. Most likely they got wet and water had entered the bearings past the seals then festered with no ability to quickly evaporate off. Some seals do a better job at keeping the elements out, other seals less so. Either way periodic servicing is the ticket to both a smooth running and a reliable bike. To neglect this because of some perceived concern about improper reassembly doesn't make the degradation/wear not happen. If you are in doubt as to your abilities then hand this off to another who is able to perform the work. Andy

There are two basic FH body/ratchet design families. One is the Shimano type with the ratchet pawls and teeth contained completely within the body and generally located between the FH body bearings. The second family has the ratchet/teeth outside of the bearing area, generally with the pawls on the FH body end and the teeth within the hub shell end. The Shimano type makes soaking and drip lubing the FH body internals easy with no other break down but the FH body removal from the shell. The second type (like in the photo) requires one to deal with the ratchet/teeth when ever the axle bearings are dealt with. Both types can be easy to work on with the right tools. Both can be well sealed or less so.

Tip- If the FH body has cartridge bearings and one wants to replace them a tip for reassembly ease is after removing the bearings, spacers, seals, pawls/spring and a thorough cleaning place the body in the oven set at 250* for a little while. Then with a very warm body the bearings can slide into the body and seat down with little effort. Once the body cools down it will slightly shrink back to the operating dimension and the bearings will become a slight interference fit. Andy.
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Old 01-17-20, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Tip- If the FH body has cartridge bearings and one wants to replace them a tip for reassembly ease is after removing the bearings, spacers, seals, pawls/spring and a thorough cleaning place the body in the oven set at 250* for a little while. Then with a very warm body the bearings can slide into the body and seat down with little effort. Once the body cools down it will slightly shrink back to the operating dimension and the bearings will become a slight interference fit. Andy.
That's interesting and im not doubting you but why not just use a bearing press? quicker, less chance of metal damage and 100% sure bearings are seated.

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Old 01-17-20, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
My LBS said it didn't look like the free hub was sealed up properly and was allowing water/dirt into it. I don't know if this is because a seal was worn, or installed incorrectly. The wheels were brand new when I bought them, but they were purchased second-hand so I don't know the history of them. I've used them for 3 seasons of CX racing and occasional training rides, and never done any maintenance on them.



So the freehub body can be removed as a single piece without opening it up? This is probably what I should be doing... removing, soaking it, rinsing it out and putting it back on.
I guess I never realized this part could be easily removed and replaced. This would also replace the outer body part that gets chewed up by the cassette and makes it hard to slide on and off, right?

So, follow up question... can I install any free hub body on this wheelset? Or do I have to buy this particular one from Tokyo Wheel (which I've never heard of)?
There are no standards in bike manufacturing so no.
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Old 01-17-20, 11:02 AM
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You need to understand that the seals on bike bearings are just dust seals and not designed to keep out liquids. If you are riding in wet, muddy conditions you will need to clean the freehub body often.
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Old 01-17-20, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
So the freehub body can be removed as a single piece without opening it up? This is probably what I should be doing... removing, soaking it, rinsing it out and putting it back on.
I guess I never realized this part could be easily removed and replaced. This would also replace the outer body part that gets chewed up by the cassette and makes it hard to slide on and off, right?

So, follow up question... can I install any free hub body on this wheelset? Or do I have to buy this particular one from Tokyo Wheel (which I've never heard of)?
-99% of time the freehubbody is specific to a particular manufacturer or model. ie a DT Swiss hub needs a DT Swiss FHB.

-The FHB is removable from the hub. The method varies between manufacturer but can normally be done with a few tools.

- With some FHB's there is a rubber contact seal that goes directly between the end of the body(fhb) and the hubshell, if it is damaged or not installed correctly it could cause problems. I know this seal exists in Zipp hubs and I cannot think of the others right now.

- Professionally I would never take a FHB off and soak it in solvent or cleaner. Thats not a good Idea. If I were to service, I would disassemble the FHB, clean, regrease bearings or replace and reassemble. Soaking as a whole and reinstalling will only decrease the life of your part dramatically.

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Old 01-17-20, 12:15 PM
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It's not that complicated.
The link in post #7 shows the freehub. That's all of it, except a bearing on the other side that you can't see, & maybe one washer.
The pawls are retained by a wire ring so no little parts falling off.
Once a year is good to clean & lube.
How's the bottom bracket? It gets a similar beating on a CX bike & can use the same maintenance schedule.
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Old 01-17-20, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
It's not that complicated.
The link in post #7 shows the freehub. That's all of it, except a bearing on the other side that you can't see, & maybe one washer.
The pawls are retained by a wire ring so no little parts falling off.
Once a year is good to clean & lube.
How's the bottom bracket? It gets a similar beating on a CX bike & can use the same maintenance schedule.
Thanks.
The shop was going to let me know on the BB. It was feeling a little rough. The bike is getting an overhaul so I assume they'll just replace it but they haven't specifically mentioned anything about it yet.
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Old 01-17-20, 06:32 PM
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Are these hubs the same as yours ? https://www.psimet.com/shop/componen...-brake-hubs-2/

Then they are rebadged Bitex/Powerway R13 hubs. And the freehub body replacements can be found here https://bit.ly/30DV6Og
If your freehub is an older 10spd only body, then these replacements above might not fit as they are listed as 11spd. But if your original freehub is 11spd. Then they would be compatible and a straight swap. Your hub is the easiest type to dissasemble. It only requires 2 hex keys to remove the end caps. Then the freehub slides off and on to the axle.

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Old 01-20-20, 04:09 PM
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The beauty of the star-ratchet freehubs companies like DT Swiss use is that they are designed to be overhauled. It is super easy, requires no tools unless it is stuck real good, but that is usually due to the thing not being overhauled when it was needed. It is the slickest solution to the dreaded dead freebody.
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Old 01-20-20, 10:00 PM
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Kinda true, just you wait till you have to replace that drive side hub bearing! then let me know how awesome and easy they are ;-)

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Old 01-20-20, 10:05 PM
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With the right tools and parts the bearing replacement is not rocket science or very effort filled either. But the qualifier is tools and experience. Better shops invest in their tooling to reflect what they sell and can make $ on in the service side. No surprise that $ drive a lot of this. Some tooling isn't too costly, others are (like Chris King) can be sit down before you are told how costly. Andy
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Old 01-20-20, 10:10 PM
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True the DT's are definitely quicker to work on than a King . CK Service tool $~200 , DT Swiss Tool plus bearing press, I guess $120 ish.

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Old 02-03-20, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
It's a Psimet (Psimet2001 ) wheelset. The LBS called Psimet and they told them they use this freehub: https://www.tokyowheel.com/products/freehub

When my LBS first called me, they said Psimet was checking to see if they could just send them parts to rebuild the springs/pawls. If they couldn't, my LBS was suggesting I just buy a new freehub directly from Tokyo Wheel and they would swap it out. Yesterday, they told me they were getting the necessary parts from Psimet, but I guess now that I say that I'm not totally sure if they're replacing individual parts, or just replacing the entire freehub.
Just saw this as I don't get on here much. They called and told me it was a tokyowheel freehub which was funny because I have nothing to do with that company and they, like nearly all of us, don't manufacture the hubs. I sent your shop a new freehub a few weeks back. They called last week looking for 699 bearings for the front hubs because they couldn't source them. I sent those to them last week sometime.

I am hardly on bikeforums anymore and I never make it over here so if stuff like this comes up and everyone is in a rush to talk about our wheels or hubs (every set is different BTW) then just give me a heads up via email on my site. info at psimet dot com. Easier for me to answer directly - even if It's just a link to over here.
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Old 02-03-20, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
With the right tools and parts the bearing replacement is not rocket science or very effort filled either. But the qualifier is tools and experience. Better shops invest in their tooling to reflect what they sell and can make $ on in the service side. No surprise that $ drive a lot of this. Some tooling isn't too costly, others are (like Chris King) can be sit down before you are told how costly. Andy
I bought my Chris King tools way back when i started about 10 years ago. While I don't need to use them often they have paid for themselves many times over. Nice tool set.

The one video I did on youtube explaining how a chris king hub (r45) works is immensely popular when compared to my other videos. That wouldn't have happened without those toolsets.

Best hub specific toolset I ever got was the set for Alchemy elf and orc hubs. Jeremy did a great job designing those and they work for tons of different hubs in different ways.

I spend a great deal of time servicing hubs. The right tools, and there are tons of different ones, make it worthwhile. If I was a home guy and really didn't have the right tools I would honestly just take them to a shop and have them done correctly (assuming the shop has the right experience and tools). Will take less time and been done well. Worth the money.

FWIW - OP - I will never say anything bad about the shop you went to - I like those guys and they do a great job. You are local though and sure I'm a long drive from the city but if you HAD brought your wheelset in I would have had it repaired and serviced while you waited most likely. It's because it fits my model and I am primarily a wheel company...
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Old 02-06-20, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
FWIW - OP - I will never say anything bad about the shop you went to - I like those guys and they do a great job. You are local though and sure I'm a long drive from the city but if you HAD brought your wheelset in I would have had it repaired and serviced while you waited most likely. It's because it fits my model and I am primarily a wheel company...
Noted and appreciated. In hindsight coming out to your shop for this would've made a lot more sense, but I didn't really know what I was getting into.

Also a big thank you to you and your team for all the hard work on another awesome CCC season!
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