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Front derailleur issues

Old 01-20-20, 09:09 PM
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oik01
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Front derailleur issues

So I have been unable to shift to the largest cassette in my front gears ... I followed the park tutorial on how to tune your front derailleur but it still didn't work. To get to the root of the problem I loosened my H screw all the way and it still didn't shift their. Eventually I just disconnected the shifter wire and removed both limiter screws. Manually pushing on the derailleur moved all the way to just before the big wheel on the cassette but my estimation is that the position is still between the big wheel and middle wheel. Any idea how to fix this? The bike ised to shift fine before this is a somewhat new issue
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Old 01-20-20, 09:22 PM
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When you say "Manually pushing on the derailleur moved all the way to just before the big wheel on the cassette but my estimation is that the position is still between the big wheel and middle wheel." what do you mean? With the cable detached there is no "position", did you reconnect the cable and not tell us?

The front system has two major parts. One is the front der and how it's positioned WRT the rings and also how far in and outward it can move. This is set independent of the shift lever. I find it easiest to set the der/ring shifting when only pulling on an exposed portion of the cable (and if you have internal routing...) The second aspect is how the lever's pull (with each step being a double or triple) actually moves the der into a point along the der's range (already established) that both accomplishes the shift and doesn't allow chain rub after (and this involves any trim functions and their contribution to rub/no rub/shifting.

It's ironic that as shifting systems have gotten more feature packed they have also become more difficult to set up and keep in adjustment for so many. There's a reason why many revert back to friction levers and that at the same time the industry is trying to eliminate the front der all together. Andy (who dislikes less gears of a poor range with greater ratio gaps "forced" on him)
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Old 01-20-20, 10:06 PM
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So if I get this right, you removed cable and the limit screws but the derailleur still wont fully reach your big ring?

if this is the case, something is way off.
Post a pic?

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Old 01-20-20, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jbucky1 View Post
So if I get this right, you removed cable and the limit screws but the derailleur still wont fully reach your big ring?

if this is the case, something is way off.
Post a pic?

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ig: jbucky1
You can see in the pic below that both limit screws are detached. There cable wire is also disconnected. I am applying full strength.... This is the furthest my derailleur will go but you can see it's still not as far as the big wheel
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Old 01-20-20, 10:18 PM
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Make certain you have the cable routed properly. Improper routing can prevent the shifter from positioning the derailleur in the proper location.

What make and model derailleur are you using? Is it possible for you to post a picture of how the cable is routed to the anchor bolt on the derailleur?
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Old 01-20-20, 10:19 PM
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Is it a new crank or new bb?

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Old 01-20-20, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Make certain you have the cable routed properly. Improper routing can prevent the shifter from positioning the derailleur in the proper location.

What make and model derailleur are you using? Is it possible for you to post a picture of how the cable is routed to the anchor bolt on the derailleur?
I completely disconnected the cable so I don't think that's the issue
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Old 01-20-20, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jbucky1 View Post
Is it a new crank or new bb?

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No. I did install new pedals though. I was wondering actually if the crank/ cassette may be loosened up and a little further out than they're supposed to be? Is there a way to bring them closer to the body of the bike?
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Old 01-20-20, 10:38 PM
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With the cable connected, you should just be able to pull it by hand (sideways) and get the FDER to shift all the way off the big ring with the limit screw backed out.
A simple test of the FDER.

BTW-Cassette is a rear hub part. For the front, we call them chain rings of just rings.
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Old 01-20-20, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
No. I did install new pedals though. I was wondering actually if the crank/ cassette may be loosened up and a little further out than they're supposed to be? Is there a way to bring them closer to the body of the bike?
Having heard that I don't think crank / bb is an issue. Something else is happening that is not allowing you full swing / full movement on that front derailleur. Did you change anything-else?

Seemingly obvious question, but may as well get it out the way.... did this front derailleur used to work with this current crank setup?

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Old 01-20-20, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jbucky1 View Post
Having heard that I don't think crank / bb is an issue. Something else is happening that is not allowing you full swing / full movement on that front derailleur. Did you change anything-else?

Seemingly obvious question, but may as well get it out the way.... did this front derailleur used to work with this current crank setup?

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No other changes. It used to work after my LBS tune up. It was the same setup at the time
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Old 01-21-20, 12:16 AM
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Sorry mate, wish I could help further given the info. Sure if I had my hands on it I could tell you in a matter of seconds but I cannot think what has gone whacky over the web. I thin you should ride it in the middle gear to an LBS.
good luck

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Old 01-21-20, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jbucky1 View Post
Sorry mate, wish I could help further given the info. Sure if I had my hands on it I could tell you in a matter of seconds but I cannot think what has gone whacky over the web. I thin you should ride it in the middle gear to an LBS.
good luck

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No worries. Thanks for trying!
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Old 01-21-20, 08:03 AM
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You most likely have already done this, but considering all the other things you have done, and that it was working before, the only thing left I can think of is maybe a small pebble, piece of wood, or something is stuck in the der??
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Old 01-21-20, 08:22 AM
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As a last resort, have you removed the DER from the bike frame and examined the action? Off the bike you might get a better idea as to what is limiting the action of the fence?
I ended up doing this to a FDER and found what my issue was. Just an idea.
Frank.
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Old 01-21-20, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
The bike ised to shift fine before this is a somewhat new issue
I'd pull up the Park Tool front derailleur installation step-by-step instructions and pretend I was installing the derailleur for the first time. Don't skip the first step. That's the one that has to do with the position of the derailleur on the seat tube. In my experience, that's the root cause for a lot of front derailleur shifting problems.
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Old 01-21-20, 08:38 AM
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At this point you need to remove the front derailleur and inspect for obstructions. No amount of tuning and procedural research is going to cure a mechanical problem with the front derailleur.
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Old 01-21-20, 02:29 PM
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IF the OP followed Post#9, they could at least isolate the problem.
Or is pulling a cable too hard to do?
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Old 01-21-20, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
IF the OP followed Post#9, they could at least isolate the problem.
Or is pulling a cable too hard to do?
See post number 4. He took the limit screws out, disconnected the cable...and still can’t move the derailleur all the way out by hand.
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Old 01-21-20, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
See post number 4. He took the limit screws out, disconnected the cable...and still can’t move the derailleur all the way out by hand.
And pulling the cable gives MUCH more leverage.
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Old 01-24-20, 10:57 AM
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It is very difficult to move a F der by hand without a cable, so I find this test to be of limited usefulness. As others have said, pulling on the cable - usually you can pull down on the exposed run of cable where it is between two stops on the frame - is a much better way to check how far the derailleur can move. You could also reconnect the cable, shift into the 'highest' gear, then you only need to move the derailleur a bit more.

Also, removing the L limit screw will only make it more difficult to get things set up as it holds the derailleur in place when you connect the cable - if the L limit screw has the derailleur roughly above the small ring and the shifter is in position to have the derailleur in the small ring, when you connect the cable, the derailleur should be in the correct ballpark for adjustment.

Also, can yo add a picture of the derailleur as viewed from the side? The height and alignment of the derailleur WRT the big chainring is important and cannot be seen in your photo.
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Old 01-24-20, 11:02 AM
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Also, in the picture the chain is on the small ring and you are trying to push the derailleur to see if it lines up with the big ring. In this scenario, the chain is going to be blocking the movement of the derailleur so it is almost impossible to figure out how far the derailleur can move.
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Old 01-24-20, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
Also, in the picture the chain is on the small ring and you are trying to push the derailleur to see if it lines up with the big ring. In this scenario, the chain is going to be blocking the movement of the derailleur so it is almost impossible to figure out how far the derailleur can move.

I've followed some instructions on here ... Got closer but need to make the cable tighter ... I'm not sure why my cable isn't getting enough tension. I unscrew the barrel adjuster all the way out and then have to screw it back in to unscrew again ... How do you stop the cable from coming back as you screw the derailleur back in ( undoing all the tension you had achieved?) I tried to hold the cable tense as I screw back in but then as soon as I let go of the cable it just goes through the barrel adjuster and it's loose again

Last edited by oik01; 01-24-20 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 01-24-20, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
I've followed some instructions on here ... Got closer but need to make the cable tighter ... I'm not sure why my cable isn't getting enough tension. I unscrew the barrel adjuster all the way out and then have to screw it back in to unscrew again ... How do you stop the cable from coming back as you screw the derailleur back in ( undoing all the tension you had achieved?) I tried to hold the cable tense as I screw back in but then as soon as I let go of the cable it just goes through the barrel adjuster and it's loose again
You've answered very few questions asked. Maybe someone else has patience?
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Old 01-24-20, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
You've answered very few questions asked. Maybe someone else has patience?
You were right ... When I attach the cable again and push on it I am able to shift all the way .... So I am trying to get rid of all the slack in the cable to see if that helps and that's where I ran into trouble
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