Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

C&V dropbar gravel/offroader?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

C&V dropbar gravel/offroader?

Old 03-22-19, 02:31 AM
  #26  
hairnet
Fresh Garbage
 
hairnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,198

Bikes: N+1

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 17 Posts



Last edited by hairnet; 03-22-19 at 11:19 AM.
hairnet is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 06:36 AM
  #27  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 245 Posts
Mountain bikes are high trail bikes and are thus very stable. To get them to steer takes muscle and leverage. Converting an MTB means you will want wide wide handlebars. Using an old road bike whatever 'bar is on there will be fine.

My first century (1969) included 15 or 20 miles of gravel. It was not an epic or a saga or an adventure ride. It was a bike ride. No advance notice was given about all the gravel. It was a ride in the country and some gravel was part of that.

Racing in the 70s and 80s right here in the USA could and did include gravel. Those riding 700x18 were promptly dropped, the rest of us hardly paid attention. The 18 millimeter crowd never figured out what had happened. Still haven't.

Remember 27x1-1/4"? One and a quarter is the same as 32mm. Good all around useful do anything size. Popular for good reason.
63rickert is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 07:35 AM
  #28  
mrv 
buy my bikes
 
mrv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,801

Bikes: my very own customized GUNNAR CrossHairs

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked 423 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl

I've got a hankering for a bike like the one shown above. Except that is a new custom show bike and I want to make something from a c&v bike.

I'm thinking take a decent steel road frame that is too small for me, fit long post and stem, some flavor of narrow MTB rim, get brake mounts repositioned for cantis or add disc mounts, then a vintage MTB drivetrain?

Or would you start with a rigid MTB frame?
Someone please correct me, but I think there are structural issues with trying to go disc brakes on older frames - the forks are not meant for moving the braking forces to the hub; maybe similar problems with the rear triangle. Bicycle Quartly's Jan Heine writes about this in his blog, I believe -- that a person can get a lighter bike with rim brakes because structure does not need to be added that disc brakes requires.
Repositioning canti-bosses indicates you will be brazing, correct? I've only done a bit of low-temp sil-brazing for rack bosses. Everything I read says canti-bosses need the higher temp brass (ugh.... might have that metal wrong... can't remember). But I didn't try that because I don't have any kind of oxygen set up. But MAP-air seemed OK for the silver brazing.

If can't add anything else that has not already been said: start with an too large MTB frame, or '90s hybrid frame that will take canti / linear pull brakes.
I'm pretty sure the bike companies will start marketing 26in MTBs as the next big thing soon - they'll tell us how the smaller wheels allow quicker handling / acceleration or something like that.....
I use an old RockHopper for my touring commuting / go everywhere bike. It's heavy but does what I want in a nice slow good workout kind of way. It had dropped bars, then I went Jones Loop bars to get more back & up right.
I'm planning on using a GUNNAR CrossHairs for the faster stuff ~ which is almost a hybrid frame! Ha! (My LBS practically gifted me a too small GUNNAR. So I'm saving up to get a bigger one then sell the smaller one. Even too small it seems pretty nice. )

cheers.
mrv is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 11:39 AM
  #29  
crank_addict
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,150
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 422 Times in 282 Posts
I'm not sold on buying what's marketed as specific gravel bike. There's no rules on how all gravel bikes should be but rather about what suits the rider.

Converted a few older ATB and hybrids for others and myself.

In regards to road vintage, my '72 LeChampion with 700x32c, revised gearing, 'softer' bar and cushy wrap plus Brooks saddle covers gravel trails quite well. Really enjoyable. Funny too as I've ridden gravel trails with a few others while they're on modern 29er atb. They can't get over how swift and lightweight it is. Delightfully deceiving.

To feel real retro, I also enjoy a late 1960s Bottechia with 700x32c Dugast tubular knobbies. Single ring and 5 speed cog.

For all arounds, a 90s era 26in wheel atb works but I much prefer 700c sized.

Older ATB-
I have a parts bin misc. pile of a build 1993 Stumpjumper that fits the ticket as all-rounder and loaner. Tange Prestige with enough braze-ons. Wide Midge On-one bars are my fave. Dual control and added interupter levers. Loaned it a few times and usually difficult for me to get it back! Lol.

Hybrid-
Best of the bunch had surprised me. I acquired a '98 or '99 Cannondale Silk Path hybrid after a neighbor gave up cycling. After a long overdue servicing it now looks new. Acquired a shorter stem and then swapped to road drop bars and dual control shifters, new Conti Speeds 700x42c, Brooks C17. Mid level shift group, overall a fairly heavy bike but it surpasses all of my road bikes in comfort. The Headshock is outstanding with lockout function.
crank_addict is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 11:59 AM
  #30  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,531

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times in 4,144 Posts
Originally Posted by 63rickert
In the classic era every bike was a gravel bike. The road turned to gravel and you kept racing. Or riding. Same bike was used for Paris-Roubaix and for Paris-Tours.

This might mean that a 10 or 20 year old bike is not classic enough. Go back 50 years and most bikes will take 32mm tires and still have a centimeter of clearance all around for mud and rocks to pass through. Youngest bike in my collection is 59 years old. It rides very well on gravel.
In the classic era, 42 gear inches was often times the easiest ratio spec'd. Just because things happened in the classic era doesnt mean they need to stay that way.
Gravel means different things depending on location, but I have 0 desire to ride my road bikes on any of my gravel rides. It simply isnt as comfortable or fun. Its been done in limited distances(a few miles) multiple times and every time ive done it, i think about how much more fun and faster I would be with my gravel bike. There is a measurable difference in comfort and stability.
You mention 32mm tires and these will be more comfortable than 23 or 25mm tires, but again, I have 0 desire to ride gravel on 32s. It simply wouldnt be fun(again, ive done it around me in limited amounts out of necessity).


A 40mm tire has the width to not deflect a bunch, and the volume to allow pressures to drop to reduce vibration and increase comfort. This all means more comfort, more speed, and less exhaustion.

In other areas, if 'gravel' means smooth hardpacked dirt, then sure a 32 tire will be great. Its very area specific for sure.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 12:00 PM
  #31  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by 63rickert
Racing in the 70s and 80s right here in the USA could and did include gravel. Those riding 700x18 were promptly dropped, the rest of us hardly paid attention. The 18 millimeter crowd never figured out what had happened. Still haven't.
I had actually forgotten about the super skinny tires of that time. 'Serious' racer types knew better and rode 25c or even 28 for rougher stuff or rides including gravel.

People on 3/4" tires would get dropped on road descents too, if they were even remotely rough and twisty, and usually they were.

Remember 27x1-1/4"? One and a quarter is the same as 32mm. Good all around useful do anything size. Popular for good reason.
Yeah, it was the standard all purpose and touring size for a very long time for good reason indeed. I find it kind of amusing that it's ended up to be what I ride most of the time now. My current tires are 28 nominally, but measure ~31mm on A23 rims. It should be mentioned though that anything light and fast in C&V times was tubular. Vintage 32 or 1 1/4" tires were pretty heavy and terrible compared to modern clinchers.

My C&V drop bar gravel offroader is an ordinary stock Mercian touring bike. When you have to ride 20-30 miles to get to the start of the gravel, it makes more sense than a dedicated gravel grinder.

Salamandrine is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 12:06 PM
  #32  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,531

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times in 4,144 Posts
Originally Posted by jyl

Drop bar off roader NAHBS

I've got a hankering for a bike like the one shown above. Except that is a new custom show bike and I want to make something from a c&v bike.

I'm thinking take a decent steel road frame that is too small for me, fit long post and stem, some flavor of narrow MTB rim, get brake mounts repositioned for cantis or add disc mounts, then a vintage MTB drivetrain?

Or would you start with a rigid MTB frame?
I wouldnt do a rigid MTB because i find that many of the conversions are wonky looking and I doubt most are built to fit for long rides. Perhaps Im wrong, but it sure looks that way. The early 80s MTBs will be tanks and the more modern rigid MTBs will be long and low.

A Trek 750 from the early 90s is lugged, has DB TT tubing, and has the same geometry as a 520 drop bar touring bike, so when you add drops to the 750, the geometry isnt all wonked out.
A Univega Via Activa(or other hybrid models) has Tange DB tubing and allows for drop bars to be added without stretching out a ton.
There are some others like this- early 90s hybrids are great because they fit modern components and clear 40mm tires.

Or just get this- https://blackmtncycles.com/frames/cross-frames/
This is the canti brake version. heat treated double butted tubing, killer fork crown, horizontal drops, quality paint, simple to build up, and really durable(ive had one for 3 or 4 years). Level top tube too.

Last edited by mstateglfr; 03-22-19 at 12:30 PM.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 02:26 PM
  #33  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,691

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 510 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7287 Post(s)
Liked 2,361 Times in 1,380 Posts
@jyl, what ever became of your blue Bianchi? It sounds like it would fit the bill.

@big chainring, is that a kiddie trailer with the top and sides removed? I did that, and it works well for me.

@dddd thank you for confirming my hunch. I'm "converting" a 1971 Super Course into my gravel bike. The LBS guy said, "Converting? The '71 Super Course IS a gravel bike."
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 03:10 PM
  #34  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,522

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4558 Post(s)
Liked 2,798 Times in 1,798 Posts
Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman
The geometry on your example above looks almost identical to my (rather lightweight) Kona Lava Dome MTB from the mid-90's. The Kona's chain stays may be just a little bit longer.

The only reason I haven't gotten around to converting it to a drop bar bike is it's a little small for me. It's about your size, though.
That very model is on my want but don't need radar. A local pawn shop has a mid-'90s Kona Lava Dome, Race Light rigid fork version. Weighs about 25 lbs, not bad for that era. I had in mind converting it to drop bar for gravel.

They want too much for it, over $300, especially since it needs new cables, housings, brake pads, pedals and saddle. But I'll wait awhile and see if they'll take a lower offer. There won't be much demand for that bike in this neighborhood. Most folks riding bikes here are carless salmon ninjas riding $50 or giveaway Huffys and no-name faux-MTBs with barely any brakes. The 10% of recreational cyclists in this area are mostly roadies. And even a Kona fan won't pay $300 for a classic Lava Dome when you can buy a new Lava Dome with aluminum frame, suspension fork and disc brakes for $500-$600.

But if they'll take something closer to $100, I may finally have my dedicated gravel/off-road-lite bike. I don't do singletrack. I don't need knobbies. But a 26" with the right tires would be sweet for rough rural roads, chipseal and groomed gravel roads here.
canklecat is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 03:37 PM
  #35  
ryansu
Senior Member
 
ryansu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 2,870

Bikes: 2009 Handsome Devil, 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus, 1978 Motobecane Grand Touring, 1987 Nishiki Cresta GT, 1989 Specialized Allez Former bikes; 1986 Miyata Trail Runner, 1979 Miyata 912, 2011 VO Rando, 1999 Cannondale R800, 1986 Schwinn Passage

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 796 Post(s)
Liked 522 Times in 367 Posts
Not C&V but my 2009 Handsome devil is similar to the black mountain monster cross mentioned by @mstateglfr above. I have fit 700 x 47 contis on it and could probably go up to 700 x 50. The blackmountain is probably lighter but the Devil has been a versatile workhorse for me, everything from compact double to full fendered triple to the current and long running 1x9 with the fat rubber. I have ridden it on gravel and I am sure I could tweak it to be a full time gravel grinder. I may need to remind myself of that if a nice early 90s lugged steel hybrid comes up on CL....

ryansu is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 11:05 PM
  #36  
lasauge 
Pedalin' Erry Day
 
lasauge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Posts: 1,159
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Liked 363 Times in 195 Posts
To add to what others have said, 90's mountain bikes can work well for this purpose, but not all of them have geometry that's suitable for swapping in drop bars. Another option is an older touring bike if you don't need tires that are too wide - I used to use a Shogun touring bike as my gravel machine and rode lots of singletrack on 32mm tires, it left my collection only when I replaced it with a much lighter bike specifically designed for cyclocross.

Here's my current gravel/singletrack/wintertime vintage do-everthing bike using an uncommon Trek model 870 frame:


(Follow link for bigger pic)
lasauge is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 05:54 AM
  #37  
top506
Death fork? Naaaah!!
 
top506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The other Maine, north of RT 2
Posts: 5,312

Bikes: Seriously downsizing.

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked 615 Times in 275 Posts
Start with a 1st gen hybird:




Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
top506 is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 10:57 AM
  #38  
63rickert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 245 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine

Yeah, it was the standard all purpose and touring size for a very long time for good reason indeed. I find it kind of amusing that it's ended up to be what I ride most of the time now. My current tires are 28 nominally, but measure ~31mm on A23 rims. It should be mentioned though that anything light and fast in C&V times was tubular. Vintage 32 or 1 1/4" tires were pretty heavy and terrible compared to modern clinchers.

My C&V drop bar gravel offroader is an ordinary stock Mercian touring bike. When you have to ride 20-30 miles to get to the start of the gravel, it makes more sense than a dedicated gravel grinder.

You got me thinking about old clincher tires. On average they sure were heavy and terrible. There were some that were at least OK. Goodyear 1-3/4 and 2.125 tires were good and got used on lots of gravel roads. They just didn't fit that many bikes but Schwinns. Michelin 50s rode well, too fragile for many to consider replacing OEM with same when they died. Schwinn LeTour were a revelation when they debuted, a bit like a heavier stiffer Pasela, which was head and shoulders above the competition. Not well marketed and never in 700. The closest thing to an actual gravel tire would have been Wolber Randonneur and Super Randonneur. Mel Pinto stocked them for the 5 or 10 riders in North America who had 650B wheels. From a test ride and handling the rubber they were good enough, few would choose them over tubulars. Used by generations of hard riding Frenchmen and I'd like to think they were having good rides.

Tubulars were more various in the old days. Wide ones existed, we didn't much buy them. Wide rims for gluing them sure existed. Then there were singletube tires, I knew a couple of old riders still using wide singletubes into the 70s. Easy to hotpatch w/o even taking them off the rim. Biggest problem with wide tubies was we overinflated them. It's a tubular, put in 100psi. The old guys told me to take it easy on air when using the big ones, Thought I was listening by putting 100 in the Campionatos when others would go 120 or 140. We shall not know what they would have done with less air.

Other point about classic tubulars is they were cheap. The big price hike was in early 70s. In 60s they did not cost more than normal tires. At least here in the States where the dollar was always massively strong as against Italian lira. If you wanted them it was easy to have them.

Mercian looks like fun.
63rickert is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 03:54 PM
  #39  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,531

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times in 4,144 Posts



here are a couple examples of early 90s hybrids turned drop bar gravel.

the trek is my brother in law's(ignore the saddle angle) and fits 41mm. It is stable geometry and double butted TT tubes.

the Univega is my first gravel bike. Way too small for me(saddle and bars are lower in this pic that when I used it), but I used it for a couple seasons to make sure I liked riding gravel and to figure out what i wanted in a properly fitting bike.
40mm tires were mounted and there was plenty of space.
again, stable geometey(so not road) makes for fun riding.

both bikes had $200-300 in them once fully built.

I wouldn't trade my gravel bike for either of these, bow that I built it up, but the Univega was a great place to start. Can't imagine cobbling a 26er together and expecting the same result. And really can't imagine riding a 32mm tire road bike and expecting the same result.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 07:19 PM
  #40  
SurferRosa
señor miembro
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 8,484

Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3846 Post(s)
Liked 6,437 Times in 3,183 Posts
I know little about this genre of bike, but this $100 schwinn crosscut looks like a good starting point.


.
SurferRosa is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SoreFeet
Classic & Vintage
30
06-28-19 03:44 PM
Metieval
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
42
10-09-18 09:46 AM
Murray Missile
Classic & Vintage
39
10-04-17 05:38 PM
Lazyass
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
12
07-05-17 06:35 AM
CanadianBiker32
Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational)
24
11-28-14 10:52 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.