Do you put patched tubes back in your saddlebag?
#151
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I'm sure like many people. Sorry it's just not worth the cost of a cup of coffee to be riding around on shoddy old tubes to me. Lets turn this around for a second. Why are all these guys not re-installing the old tube and putting the new one back in the saddle bag? So they can get that extra mileage out of their old tube, and keep the new one new?
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I'm sure like many people. Sorry it's just not worth the cost of a cup of coffee to be riding around on shoddy old tubes to me. Lets turn this around for a second. Why are all these guys not re-installing the old tube and putting the new one back in the saddle bag? So they can get that extra mileage out of their old tube, and keep the new one new?
#153
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If you are getting two flats in two days you are doing something wrong. You are either either installing the tube wrong or your wheel rim has some damage. And yes if it has a hole in the tube and it's junk to me, I'd rather buy a new one. Same with the tire if it's got a big hole in it I would prefer to replace it ASAP. But I'm sure you are one of those guys that thinks a tire should be duct taped and the hole in the side wall of your car tire is OK to be plugged.
If you are getting constant flats maybe you should spring a extra few bucks and get a self sealing tube.
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If you are getting two flats in two days you are doing something wrong. You are either either installing the tube wrong or your wheel rim has some damage. And yes if it has a hole in the tube and it's junk to me, I'd rather buy a new one. Same with the tire if it's got a big hole in it I would prefer to replace it ASAP. But I'm sure you are one of those guys that thinks a tire should be duct taped and the hole in the side wall of your car tire is OK to be plugged.
I don’t agree with people who say that flats occur in one location but there is nothing that says you can’t have more than one flat every other day. I’ve had more than 65 flats (I stopped counting at 65) in a single day...in a 16 mile ride. I ran out of tubes, patches and ended up carrying the bike for the last mile. Flats are a completely random event for which you can’t plan. Saying that they fit some kind of schedule is just silly.
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Every time I do wheel maintenance I put a patched and tested tube in the tire. When I get home from a ride with a flat, I take out the spare/replacement tube and put in a tested patched one.
A patched tube has some higher probability of failing than an unpatched tube; most of the bickering in here is about the magnitude of that probability. I'm getting some quantum benefit from having good-as-new unpatched tubes in my bag rather than patched ones.
I have 5 sets of wheels and I'd wager all of them have patched tubes in them right now - except for the sew-ups.
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#156
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I've gone tubeless now, but I would patch then continue my ride. Later on, I would start carrying an extra tube because some punctures or failures can't be patched.
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If you are getting two flats in two days you are doing something wrong. You are either either installing the tube wrong or your wheel rim has some damage. And yes if it has a hole in the tube and it's junk to me, I'd rather buy a new one. Same with the tire if it's got a big hole in it I would prefer to replace it ASAP. But I'm sure you are one of those guys that thinks a tire should be duct taped and the hole in the side wall of your car tire is OK to be plugged.
If you are getting constant flats maybe you should spring a extra few bucks and get a self sealing tube.
If you are getting constant flats maybe you should spring a extra few bucks and get a self sealing tube.
#158
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Now, this was almost a decade ago, so maybe they improved their chemistry, but for me, while a bit more hassle, the Rema patch kits have always been the best.
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So where did you come up with this “only one flat a week” rule? I’ve had 2 flats in 10 minutes less than 100 yards apart. And, no, the flats weren’t related.
I don’t agree with people who say that flats occur in one location but there is nothing that says you can’t have more than one flat every other day. I’ve had more than 65 flats (I stopped counting at 65) in a single day...in a 16 mile ride. I ran out of tubes, patches and ended up carrying the bike for the last mile. Flats are a completely random event for which you can’t plan. Saying that they fit some kind of schedule is just silly.
I don’t agree with people who say that flats occur in one location but there is nothing that says you can’t have more than one flat every other day. I’ve had more than 65 flats (I stopped counting at 65) in a single day...in a 16 mile ride. I ran out of tubes, patches and ended up carrying the bike for the last mile. Flats are a completely random event for which you can’t plan. Saying that they fit some kind of schedule is just silly.
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My main point, however, is that flats aren’t something that is planned nor something that is uncommon.
The two instances where I got consecutive flats where both wheel related. One was the rim had a slight crack right at the weld. And the other the rim strip was old and had shifted and one of the spokes was rubbing against the tube. Another weird instance was that I still enjoy doing BMX racing. I had bought a brand new set of really hard to get high pressure tires that were $100cdn each but I used the old tube from last years race season. Well as I was filing it up to the 100psi the tube exploded!! it was like a shotgun blast going off by my head. My ears rang for a good 5 minutes, and worst of all the blast was so bad it actually ripped the bead off the tire and the tire was shot. So now when ever I buy new tires I also buy new tubes. Rubber sadly degrades and breaks down over time.
A very loud blowout is related to either the tube being trapped between the rim and the tire where it forces the tire off the rim and ruptures. That’s a very common mistake and is always user error. I’ve done it but I’ve never blamed the tire.
Your statement that you ripped the bead off the tire says to me that it could also be a defective tire. I have had blowouts on (supposedly) high quality tires that were the result of the tire just not staying on the rim. But the tire never experienced damage. I’ve also experienced cases where the fabric was inproperly cured or was improperly wrapped around the bead and slipped off. That did result in tire damage. But, in both cases, the tube was not responsible for the blowout nor has a trapped tube ever resulted in tire damage.
Tubes don’t degrade in tires. The tire makes a really good barrier to most everything that would damage the rubber of a tube. I’ve pulled perfectly good tubes out of severely decayed tires from 1980s bikes. The tube, in some cases, was probably OEM. The tire was mostly just cord but the tube was fine.
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#161
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I had bought a brand new set of really hard to get high pressure tires that were $100cdn each but I used the old tube from last years race season. Well as I was filing it up to the 100psi the tube exploded!! it was like a shotgun blast going off by my head. My ears rang for a good 5 minutes, and worst of all the blast was so bad it actually ripped the bead off the tire and the tire was shot. So now when ever I buy new tires I also buy new tubes. Rubber sadly degrades and breaks down over time.
I can see some problems I can see with your tale about the blowout. Blowouts aren’t caused by a tube rupturing inside the tire. That never happens. If the tube were old enough that it were to crack in the tire and release air, it wouldn’t blow the tire off the rim. I’ve seen tubes rupture because of a bad rim strip and those are relatively quite “pops”, not loud bangs.
A very loud blowout is related to either the tube being trapped between the rim and the tire where it forces the tire off the rim and ruptures. That’s a very common mistake and is always user error. I’ve done it but I’ve never blamed the tire.
A very loud blowout is related to either the tube being trapped between the rim and the tire where it forces the tire off the rim and ruptures. That’s a very common mistake and is always user error. I’ve done it but I’ve never blamed the tire.
#162
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My flats have almost nothing to do with the conditions of the roads. They are all related to what is on the roads or on the places where I ride bikes. We have goat heads throughout the area where I ride most and, if you don’t have them, thank your lucky stars. I occasionally get flats from glass and I occasionally get flats from wires off of steel belted tires. Cactus spines also take their toll.
My main point, however, is that flats aren’t something that is planned nor something that is uncommon.
I can see some problems I can see with your tale about the blowout. Blowouts aren’t caused by a tube rupturing inside the tire. That never happens. If the tube were old enough that it were to crack in the tire and release air, it wouldn’t blow the tire off the rim. I’ve seen tubes rupture because of a bad rim strip and those are relatively quite “pops”, not loud bangs.
A very loud blowout is related to either the tube being trapped between the rim and the tire where it forces the tire off the rim and ruptures. That’s a very common mistake and is always user error. I’ve done it but I’ve never blamed the tire.
Your statement that you ripped the bead off the tire says to me that it could also be a defective tire. I have had blowouts on (supposedly) high quality tires that were the result of the tire just not staying on the rim. But the tire never experienced damage. I’ve also experienced cases where the fabric was inproperly cured or was improperly wrapped around the bead and slipped off. That did result in tire damage. But, in both cases, the tube was not responsible for the blowout nor has a trapped tube ever resulted in tire damage.
Tubes don’t degrade in tires. The tire makes a really good barrier to most everything that would damage the rubber of a tube. I’ve pulled perfectly good tubes out of severely decayed tires from 1980s bikes. The tube, in some cases, was probably OEM. The tire was mostly just cord but the tube was fine.
My main point, however, is that flats aren’t something that is planned nor something that is uncommon.
I can see some problems I can see with your tale about the blowout. Blowouts aren’t caused by a tube rupturing inside the tire. That never happens. If the tube were old enough that it were to crack in the tire and release air, it wouldn’t blow the tire off the rim. I’ve seen tubes rupture because of a bad rim strip and those are relatively quite “pops”, not loud bangs.
A very loud blowout is related to either the tube being trapped between the rim and the tire where it forces the tire off the rim and ruptures. That’s a very common mistake and is always user error. I’ve done it but I’ve never blamed the tire.
Your statement that you ripped the bead off the tire says to me that it could also be a defective tire. I have had blowouts on (supposedly) high quality tires that were the result of the tire just not staying on the rim. But the tire never experienced damage. I’ve also experienced cases where the fabric was inproperly cured or was improperly wrapped around the bead and slipped off. That did result in tire damage. But, in both cases, the tube was not responsible for the blowout nor has a trapped tube ever resulted in tire damage.
Tubes don’t degrade in tires. The tire makes a really good barrier to most everything that would damage the rubber of a tube. I’ve pulled perfectly good tubes out of severely decayed tires from 1980s bikes. The tube, in some cases, was probably OEM. The tire was mostly just cord but the tube was fine.
Many of the new bmx tires dont have the metal wire in the bead anymore. Maybe if it had the damage wouldn't been as bad?
If the tire wasn't seated right then it would have come off the rim much sooner. And I agree that a tube is sealed in the tire making it last longer. But again I think its where you live. Being in Canada we get extreme temperatures from super cold to super hot. And I really believe it's all in how it's stored over the winter.
#163
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Well fast forward to about 1min and you can see simular situation of what happened to me.
Many of the new bmx tires dont have the metal wire in the bead anymore. Maybe if it had the damage wouldn't been as bad?
If the tire wasn't seated right then it would have come off the rim much sooner. And I agree that a tube is sealed in the tire making it last longer. But again I think its where you live. Being in Canada we get extreme temperatures from super cold to super hot. And I really believe it's all in how it's stored over the winter.
Many of the new bmx tires dont have the metal wire in the bead anymore. Maybe if it had the damage wouldn't been as bad?
If the tire wasn't seated right then it would have come off the rim much sooner. And I agree that a tube is sealed in the tire making it last longer. But again I think its where you live. Being in Canada we get extreme temperatures from super cold to super hot. And I really believe it's all in how it's stored over the winter.
#164
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Folding tires are very common and they use a Kevlar bead. I have never seen a folding tire have bead damage because of the nature of the flexible bead. Tires that are rigid and hold their round shape are wire bead. The bike in the video has a wire bead.
I will say that a folding tire...or any tire...can be damaged around the bead if you use the wrong tools to install or remove the tire. If you use a knife or screwdriver to do tire removal or installation, you can damage the sidewall. The tire casing is just a fabric that has been impregnated with rubber and, if damaged, it will act like fabric. In other words, it can tear.
The bottom line however, is that the video above is user error and not the fault of the tire or tube. A patched tube would respond just like an unpatched tube. If the tire were installed correctly, there would have been no blow out.
[/QUOTE]If the tire wasn't seated right then it would have come off the rim much sooner. And I agree that a tube is sealed in the tire making it last longer. But again I think its where you live. Being in Canada we get extreme temperatures from super cold to super hot. And I really believe it's all in how it's stored over the winter.[/QUOTE]
How long it takes for a tire to slip off if it is installed incorrectly depends on a number of factors. I’ve had tires blow off when after 15 minutes...scared all of my co-workers... as well as others than have blown out in seconds. I’ve had some tires that don’t seat well...mostly 20 inch wheels from HelMart...where I can see the tube sneaking out and I’ve been able to deflate the tire before a blowout. The rubber of a tire is a fairly high friction material so it can take a while for enough of the bead to unseat prior to the blowout.
As to temperatures, my tubes are stored in my garage. The temperature fluctuates widely as well. That really has little effect on the rubber. You’d have to get to much higher temperatures than even the warmest summer day to have much effect on the rubber. Cold temperatures have zero effect on the rubber and would even prolong the life of the tube. You can damage a tube by taking it out of the box and leaving it sitting around or leaving it in direct sunlight for a very long time (years). Store them in a closed container and in a dark area and they will last for a very long time.
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#165
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Are you kidding?! Again a similar situation to yours of carelessness. I live next to close to Canadian border and most Canadian live close to their southern border. I ride all winter long when ridership drops down by a factor 100-300. My bikes are stored in an unheated garage. My riding temperatures span so far -30C to 43C. The latter have been typical daily temperatures at my base in Asia and in Africa close to that. No blowouts for me or anybody else tied to those temperatures. For tires that you use in touring, it is common to have kevlar beads rather than wire, so that you can fold them easier for your luggage.
It might be a surprise but I also do collect and restore vintage bikes. I've noticed that sometimes a pull a tube out of a old wheel and it still smells good, but sometimes they smell awful and I believe it's the rubber breaking down.
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I think that's the thing. If you are riding them in winter you are keeping them inflated and I think it's when they are cold and uninflated that it's possible to get cracks. But maybe I'm wrong? I know I used to take them for granted over the winter but I don't anymore. I'm not using my bike everyday for transportation like I think a lot of the people in this thread are. For me it's when I get a weekend off work and I want to take a short couple hundred km trip somewhere. Or I am traveling to the next city for a BMX race or cruise around town with some buddies. The possible down time will cost me way more then it's worth.
It might be a surprise but I also do collect and restore vintage bikes. I've noticed that sometimes a pull a tube out of a old wheel and it still smells good, but sometimes they smell awful and I believe it's the rubber breaking down.
It might be a surprise but I also do collect and restore vintage bikes. I've noticed that sometimes a pull a tube out of a old wheel and it still smells good, but sometimes they smell awful and I believe it's the rubber breaking down.
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#167
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I think that's the thing. If you are riding them in winter you are keeping them inflated and I think it's when they are cold and uninflated that it's possible to get cracks. But maybe I'm wrong? I know I used to take them for granted over the winter but I don't anymore. I'm not using my bike everyday for transportation like I think a lot of the people in this thread are. For me it's when I get a weekend off work and I want to take a short couple hundred km trip somewhere. Or I am traveling to the next city for a BMX race or cruise around town with some buddies. The possible down time will cost me way more then it's worth.
It might be a surprise but I also do collect and restore vintage bikes. I've noticed that sometimes a pull a tube out of a old wheel and it still smells good, but sometimes they smell awful and I believe it's the rubber breaking down.
It might be a surprise but I also do collect and restore vintage bikes. I've noticed that sometimes a pull a tube out of a old wheel and it still smells good, but sometimes they smell awful and I believe it's the rubber breaking down.
#168
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I used to use Park's glueless patches, but had trouble with them sliding around in hot weather (melting from the heat of the pavement, I'm guessing).
Now, this was almost a decade ago, so maybe they improved their chemistry, but for me, while a bit more hassle, the Rema patch kits have always been the best.
Now, this was almost a decade ago, so maybe they improved their chemistry, but for me, while a bit more hassle, the Rema patch kits have always been the best.
#169
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Happened once when my bike was just sitting in the car, too. Maybe I wasn't cleaning the rubber well enough (?).
But yeah - in both cases, I'd check out the old tube and it wouldn't be leaking anywhere, except from around that patch (which had been holding fine for a few rides prior). How that happens at 110psi... no idea.
But yeah - in both cases, I'd check out the old tube and it wouldn't be leaking anywhere, except from around that patch (which had been holding fine for a few rides prior). How that happens at 110psi... no idea.
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So where did you come up with this “only one flat a week” rule? I’ve had 2 flats in 10 minutes less than 100 yards apart. And, no, the flats weren’t related.
I don’t agree with people who say that flats occur in one location but there is nothing that says you can’t have more than one flat every other day. I’ve had more than 65 flats (I stopped counting at 65) in a single day...in a 16 mile ride. I ran out of tubes, patches and ended up carrying the bike for the last mile. Flats are a completely random event for which you can’t plan. Saying that they fit some kind of schedule is just silly.
I don’t agree with people who say that flats occur in one location but there is nothing that says you can’t have more than one flat every other day. I’ve had more than 65 flats (I stopped counting at 65) in a single day...in a 16 mile ride. I ran out of tubes, patches and ended up carrying the bike for the last mile. Flats are a completely random event for which you can’t plan. Saying that they fit some kind of schedule is just silly.
When I rode the open Downs the chances of getting a puncture were minimal, other than the random rusty nail type event. When I descended into a valley it would generally be between hedges, often blackthorn. In autumn and winter this was not much of a problem, but once they started to cut the hedges many of the thorns ended up scattered on the tarmac, so the chances of a puncture rose. While one cannot predict exactly where a puncture will occur, one can calculate the risk - higher for post-cut hedged roads, lower for unhedged plateau roads. So you can map out the areas of high and low risk, which is nothing different to what businesses do every day, nothing different to the algorithms that place the adverts down the right hand side of this page - which for me this week are all scantily clad ladies advertising lingerie because of a job I had this week editing lingerie shop content online.
Our not being able to do something is not the same as no one being able to do it.
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As for multiple quotes, I use them so that I make it easier for the reader to follow my point.
When I rode the open Downs the chances of getting a puncture were minimal, other than the random rusty nail type event. When I descended into a valley it would generally be between hedges, often blackthorn. In autumn and winter this was not much of a problem, but once they started to cut the hedges many of the thorns ended up scattered on the tarmac, so the chances of a puncture rose. While one cannot predict exactly where a puncture will occur, one can calculate the risk - higher for post-cut hedged roads, lower for unhedged plateau roads. So you can map out the areas of high and low risk, which is nothing different to what businesses do every day, nothing different to the algorithms that place the adverts down the right hand side of this page - which for me this week are all scantily clad ladies advertising lingerie because of a job I had this week editing lingerie shop content online.
Our not being able to do something is not the same as no one being able to do it.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#172
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I have different bikes that I ride on different occasions. Sometimes I do not use a bike for 2 years, sometimes locally and sometimes because it is away from my central base. When I pump the tires again after 2 years, nothing blows up and then nothing after another 2 years. I have racks of tires and boxes of tubes of different age. Yes, the rubber ages, but not on the scale of a year, but a decade and that depends on details, as was discussed. Various devices in everyday life have rubber rollers inside and belts and you do not run all the time changing them. Yes, eventually they will die but the time scale tends to be such that at the everyday level you can forget that they are there. For vintage bikes, aging rubber and plastic can become of a concern.
#173
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When a patch works its way loose at any time that means you prepared the tube wrong, I've never had either a glue on or a glueless patch eventually work loose...well, as long as the glueless patch was a Park, I used a few other brands, even the well known Lezyne, those don't stick for more than a few hours, but the Park brand will stick for the life of the tube.
And when I do have to use my spare tube on the road I always pull it out when I get home, patch the tube that had the puncture, put it back in the wheel and put the unpatched tube back in my road repair kit.
#174
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Maybe I am wrong? Reading up I was kind of surprised to read cold air preserves tires because it slows dry rot. And I was also surprised to read that rubber actually expands in cold temperatures. I'm just going off my own observations where I have stored tires and bikes in my shed only to find hairline cracks in the sidewalls of the tire next spring. Where as the ones I've kept in my house are still in great shape. The other thing I have encountered is my GF put some tires in the furnace room, and a year or two later when I wanted to use them for a classic build they were ROCK hard!! I attributed it to heat from the furnace but there must be a different explanation.
I’m not sure what you mean by the rubber expands in cold weather. I think you are referring to the rubber expanding when inflated cold but it will be a little stiffer. It’s not harmed by putting air in it, however.
Cracks in rubber can be caused by a number of different conditions. They shouldn’t crack when stored in the cold outside in single winter. If they happen to be exposed to light or if there is something electrical running in the building, that can cause rubber embrittlement. The tires that hardened in a furnace room is due to the ozone that is created by the electrical motor running. Something as simple as putting the tires and tubes in a plastic bag can go a long ways toward keeping the ozone away from the rubber and they will last longer.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#175
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I can confirm the Lezyne patches don't last very long. I've used Park in the past but had developed couple of very slow leaks a month or two ago and had some Lezyne patches I thought I'd try since my tube of glue had dried up. Both leaks were discovered at home so the area was meticulously prepared before applying the patches. Within a week or two I came out one morning to find I had a flat. Pulling the tube and putting it in a sink of water I found the Lezyne patch leaking badly. Luckily I was able to peal the patch off and apply a regular glue patch which worked fine. I pulled the other tube I'd patched with the Lezyne, pealed off that patch and repatched it with a glue patch. I haven't had this issue with Park but very limited experience. Got rid of the Lezyne patches in my road patch kit and will stick with Park for emergency road repairs if I get a second flat after using my spare tube. At home I prefer glue patches.
And when I do have to use my spare tube on the road I always pull it out when I get home, patch the tube that had the puncture, put it back in the wheel and put the unpatched tube back in my road repair kit.
And when I do have to use my spare tube on the road I always pull it out when I get home, patch the tube that had the puncture, put it back in the wheel and put the unpatched tube back in my road repair kit.
Your last paragraph is why I fix on the side of the road because I don't want to go home and do the work all over again as you do, and others! I have more important things to do with my time, and time is money.