New Paramount .....1985 ? Waterford made ?
#1
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New Paramount .....1985 ? Waterford made ?
I bought this from the local CL yesterday, thinking as
I viewed it in a narrow hallway that it was a PDG
Paramount from the late 80's/early 90's which had been
considerably modified by someone to use as a triathalon
bike (I've taken off the Profile bar extensions, etc.)
The BB is pretty clearly stamped (I can see it now in
the daylight and with some room to maneuver) as
6000 .... W8 (or 0) ....85030.
I am far from expert in these, and if it is an 85 frame,
it seems to have been relentlessly modified in terms of
components. Here are the pictures:
Am I correct in now deciding it is a Columbus tubed, Waterford
paramount frame that was made in '85 ? Am I also correct in
assuming it was probably bought as a frame and built up with
Shimano 600 components to be more affordable, and that the
Campy stuff that now appears on it are probably incremental
upgrades ?
Certainly, I'm pretty sure neither of the wheels are original, and
the 8 speed Campy rear requires some coaxing to reinsert..haven't
pulled and measured it yet, but I'm guessing it's closer to a six cog
standard rear spacing.
Thanks for any suggestions, schooling, general information, or
envy. The price was pretty good, about right for a PDG Paramount
in better original condition than this one.
I viewed it in a narrow hallway that it was a PDG
Paramount from the late 80's/early 90's which had been
considerably modified by someone to use as a triathalon
bike (I've taken off the Profile bar extensions, etc.)
The BB is pretty clearly stamped (I can see it now in
the daylight and with some room to maneuver) as
6000 .... W8 (or 0) ....85030.
I am far from expert in these, and if it is an 85 frame,
it seems to have been relentlessly modified in terms of
components. Here are the pictures:
Am I correct in now deciding it is a Columbus tubed, Waterford
paramount frame that was made in '85 ? Am I also correct in
assuming it was probably bought as a frame and built up with
Shimano 600 components to be more affordable, and that the
Campy stuff that now appears on it are probably incremental
upgrades ?
Certainly, I'm pretty sure neither of the wheels are original, and
the 8 speed Campy rear requires some coaxing to reinsert..haven't
pulled and measured it yet, but I'm guessing it's closer to a six cog
standard rear spacing.
Thanks for any suggestions, schooling, general information, or
envy. The price was pretty good, about right for a PDG Paramount
in better original condition than this one.
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#2
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It looks like an mid-eighties Waterford built Paramount to me. If it were a PDG Series Paramount, it would have OS tubes and a unicrown fork. The chromed drive side chainstay was pre-1987 (Waterford quit doing that with the '87 model year). If it's an '85, it would have 126mm rear OLD spacing.
What's the serial number? Looks to be ~62cm.
EDIT - I see you listed the s/n... 60cm c-t, B85030 would be the 30th Paramount frame scheduled for production in February (B) 1985.
What's the serial number? Looks to be ~62cm.
EDIT - I see you listed the s/n... 60cm c-t, B85030 would be the 30th Paramount frame scheduled for production in February (B) 1985.
Last edited by Scooper; 02-28-12 at 04:20 PM.
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I don't believe that is a Paramount. PDG was the design studio name that Schwinn had. Almost all the upper end road bikes in the mid to late 1980s used Columbus tubing. I for example have a Schwinn 564 aluminum bike that says PDG on it but it never was a Paramount nor will it ever be one. The lugs on that bike are not fancy enough to be a real Paramount. Roger
#5
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I don't believe that is a Paramount. PDG was the design studio name that Schwinn had. Almost all the upper end road bikes in the mid to late 1980s used Columbus tubing. I for example have a Schwinn 564 aluminum bike that says PDG on it but it never was a Paramount nor will it ever be one. The lugs on that bike are not fancy enough to be a real Paramount. Roger
i would be seriously shocked if that weren't a Schwinn Paramount! the fork crown looks more like an '87/'88 (although the back side looks a little different and has a lot more slope) but the serial number indicates an '85. perhaps the fork is a replacement.
1985 catalog
Last edited by shnibop; 02-28-12 at 04:38 PM.
#6
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Originally Posted by Scooper
It looks like an mid-eighties Waterford built Paramount to me. If it were a PDG Series Paramount, it would have OS tubes and a unicrown fork. The chromed drive side chainstay was pre-1987 (Waterford quit doing that with the '87 model year). If it's an '85, it would have 126mm rear OLD spacing.
What's the serial number? Looks to be ~62cm.
EDIT - I see you listed the s/n... 60cm c-t, B85030 would be the 30th Paramount frame scheduled for production in February (B) 1985.
What's the serial number? Looks to be ~62cm.
EDIT - I see you listed the s/n... 60cm c-t, B85030 would be the 30th Paramount frame scheduled for production in February (B) 1985.
Oh frabjous day!
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based on what? no fancy lugs = not a Paramount?
i would be seriously shocked if that weren't a Schwinn Paramount! the fork crown looks more like an '87/'88 (although the back side looks a little different and has a lot more slope) but the serial number indicates an '85. perhaps the fork is a replacement.
i would be seriously shocked if that weren't a Schwinn Paramount! the fork crown looks more like an '87/'88 (although the back side looks a little different and has a lot more slope) but the serial number indicates an '85. perhaps the fork is a replacement.
just what I was trying to find.
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#8
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Scooper has it right. The fork looks just the like the Columbus fork on my 1990 Paramount OS.
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Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 02-28-12 at 05:13 PM.
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I don't remember seeing that fork on a mid-decade Paramount before.
I think the one on my 1984 was the same through 1986ish. (excuse the pre-cleaning photo)
I think the one on my 1984 was the same through 1986ish. (excuse the pre-cleaning photo)
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An easy way to tell if the fork's original to pull it out and look for red/brown primer on the steerer tube. If it's red/brown it's original Paramount. Lake of the primer doesnt mean the fork isnt original.
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Here are two pictures of a 1984 Paramount I got from Joe
Englert.............quite a difference in appearance, I think.
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#12
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The fork crown on my '87 looks like the fork crown on the Feb '85 bike pictured in 3alarmer's original post. I'm thinking the crown may have been changed between the time tha catalog photo was taken and February '85 production.
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3alarmer, does your crown match these later ones. It seems more curvy around the steerer from the angles we have.
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Good morning
Here is the fork in question against a darker background for contrast:
............................
If it is a replacement, someone did a very good job
of matching what must be a difficult paint to match up.
On close inspection, the fork paint and the frame paint
are identical to my eye..........but very much more curve
than in the catalog photos.
............................
If it is a replacement, someone did a very good job
of matching what must be a difficult paint to match up.
On close inspection, the fork paint and the frame paint
are identical to my eye..........but very much more curve
than in the catalog photos.
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Last edited by 3alarmer; 02-29-12 at 09:53 AM.
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The blade sockets are similar, but the "bridge" is different. The 1987 crown looks to maintain constant width, whereas this 1985 crown is more sculpted, curving inward then wrapping around the steerer. It also appears to have more slope.
#21
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I agree that there are subtle differences in Scooper's 1987 crown and 3alarmer's 1985 crown. But, the '85 crown looks just like the crown on my 1990 Paramount. Maybe Waterford was using a couple different fork crowns simultaneously during those years.
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#23
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You be the judge.
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Waterford was all over the place with forks, I guess.
Maybe there really is no "standard" for these given
all the drama that was going on at the time with Schwinn ?
Is that repainted or did you just get lucky ? The paint on mine
is some kinda really nice epoxy, and it's not nearly bad enough
to repaint, but maybe sometime in the future ? The seat stays
look like they got banged pretty regularly on mine.
Maybe there really is no "standard" for these given
all the drama that was going on at the time with Schwinn ?
Is that repainted or did you just get lucky ? The paint on mine
is some kinda really nice epoxy, and it's not nearly bad enough
to repaint, but maybe sometime in the future ? The seat stays
look like they got banged pretty regularly on mine.
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#25
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It had been repainted some with some terrible 80s fade that was somehow even worse than the putrid neon with which it left Waterford. I had it powdercoated.
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