iohan.gue

I am planing on cycling down to Argentina this year but I have a 700c wheel size bike (and the maximum tire size would be 35mm too).
After a read through this thread I seem less and less confident about taking my bike. I've done ~12 000km on it (including some rough roads) and I haven't broken any spokes yet.

If I do keep the bike, I will also need to replace some parts (chain, read cassette and my derailleur) and I think rebuilding or replacing the wheels in California or Mexico would be a good idea.

Or I can look into getting a new bike and the main concern with that is having to spend more money (and also having to sell my old bike without replacing those parts...). But having to possibly ship parts from USA or Canada in South America would definitely be very expensive...


Thoughts? Ideas?

Chris Pringle

What kind of bike is it? 12,000 Km. loaded touring or simply unloaded riding?

iohan.gue

Opus Legato, 12 000km loaded

Chris Pringle

As you ride to Ushuaia, Argentina you'll encounter a lot of rough terrain, more than you'll find in North America. In fact, the most beautiful sceneries will most likely be off the beaten path. You'll regret having to avoid them due to fear of ruining wheels that might be difficult to replace. I know someone will jump in to point out that someone has successfully toured on 700c/29er in Latin America, but there is a reason the vast majority prefers to avoid them.

As Nancy indicates, the big thing is finding wheel part replacements. While 700c/29er are increasingly becoming more popular, you might have a tough time finding them in smaller towns or more remote regions. The reality is that 26" still rules in this part of the world. You'll breathe a sigh of relief walking into a tiny shop to find they carry rims, spokes, tubes or tires (all for 26" wheels) so you can continue your trip. They might be cheapo but good enough until you reach a place that sells better quality parts -- and a LOT less expensive than waiting for FedEx to arrive with a hefty bill for shipping + outrageous duties & taxes levied by the local government.

My advice is to follow your instinct and get the right tool for the job. Go with a 26er!

chriskmurray

If you have the funds to switch frames and lace in new rims I would feel better with 26" wheels personally, you don't even need new hubs which are usually the most expensive part of a wheel anyways. You can sell your old frame off to help cover the costs of the new frame and really not be out a ton of money. If anything, do it so you have the option for higher volume tires on some of the rougher roads in South America.

Another way to look at it, in the grand scheme of things you can buy new rims/spokes and a frame and not have to spend the majority of your tour worrying about wheel/tire problems and it is just a small drop in the bucket compared to the cost of your tour. Well worth the money spend IMHO.

lhendrick

Unless you plan to spend a month or so in some small town in the sticks taking an intensive course in Spanish language and culture, you should probably forget about having a package of expensive bike parts sent to you while on your tour.

I am currently dealing with the same issue or whether to take my 700C LHT or to convert my 96 Trek mountain bike for touring. I chose to modify the Trek, having strong wheels built now by Peter White. Moved all the racks and bags and lights and gizmos over from the LHT. Almost ready to go. I bent a rim in France this Summer and had to get it replaced and it was fine because there where shops all along the EuroVelo route. Not so sure it would have been a positive experience in the outback.

cplager

How common are 26" wheels with disc hubs?

One could imagine falling back to dual 26" s if need be...

(I'm assuming they aren't that easy to find, but just in case...)

iohan.gue

You are right Chris P, the best views are not on the main/paved roads. I can maybe do the Great Divide or part of it as well if I switch now.
I quickly looked up FedEx and if I have to ship a single rim that would probably cost as much as a 26" bike

Switching frames is a great idea and its definitely not as expensive as I thought it would be.

As for the disc breaks, my frame has no mounts, but "Riding South America, Brakeless" would be a great journal title

rifraf

Damaging rims in far flung places is not endemic.
Seriously, how often are people bucking rims?
If it was my planned trip, I'd get my hubs greased, bearing adjusted and spoke tension checked professionally and consider myself good to go.
Take spokes with you and if your really worried, buy a spare rim, leaving it with a reliable friend or family member whose able to post it at short notice (eliminating the issue of shops being out of stock).
Take spare folding tyres and tubes.
Do I really need to provide links to cycle tourists who ride 700c wheel size in South America?
Oh, Ok https://whileoutriding.com/

MassiveD

While it is true that you can get parts on the road for your bike, it is better to come equipped with parts that you feel may fail since it is rare to find quality parts. It isn't a mater of the right boutique parts, it is a question of any usable parts at all. I live in Toronto Canada, one of the top 3 cities by population north of Mexico. I can't buy locally basic stuff I need for a touring bike. For instance, a few years back I couldn't find the right cassette for my bike. There are no frames other than one Chinese import that is pretty light. I just make it, or buy it off the US internet.

I had a burst in a rural area a while back, and the only tires I could get were comfort tires for my 700c. While I could get 26" at any big box store, they would have been low pressure knobbies, not touring tires. Basically you have to bring it. There isn't any next day delivery of bike parts in Canada, particularly since they probably don't have it in the first place.

So basically bring a few kevlar bead spares, and bring an extra rim. You can cut rims in half, or 1/3rd is better. Just re-lace them spoke for spoke with your current hub and spokes. Once they are laced the rims are full strength.

You shouldn't need tires wider than 1.5 if you are on roads and trails. I have dropped the pressure on my tires to 15 pounds so they would run sand, with no ill effects, though if it was sandy and really rough...

Chris Pringle

In Latin America it happens more often than you might think.

Why go through that trouble when you can find tons of 26" rims in Latin America. There are people who have been known to take a cheap flight back to the U.S. (or have a friend or relative fly down) because it's cheaper than what FedEx + Gov't. import duties would charge for delivering a large package. It's not as simple as you make it seem.

If you carefully read his bike page, he's running 700c x 2.4" (61mm) fat tires to protect the rims. He's also very careful to point out that going with a 29er is a big risk if your wheels (i.e., rims) were to fail in this part of the world. You definitely must have the financial resources for an expensive plan B. This gentleman is touring with top of the line everything (frame, wheels, drivetrain, etc.) minimizing any possible risks to the max.

rifraf

I'm familiar with Cass's bike as I too ride an Ogre, but would hardly classify it as top of the line being a frame in the budget bracket (and I can only lust after something of Co-motion ilk or full custom).

I've talked to Cass in another forum and he rides repeatedly down to South America and often in company, also with large wheels.
They ride a hell of a lot of off road in a fast adventure style of riding so I disagree (a bit) with your "minimizing any possible risks to the max".
I have read his bike pages and many times and would encourage others do so for motivation as well as research for local food/accommodation.

Is Fedex the only delivery method in that part of the world?

I've traveled in Australia, NZ, Ireland and the UK but yet to do the Americas although saying that, when I do I'll likely be taking my Ogre.

I've been lucky in that I've not damaged a rim in my travels although I've broken a few spokes.
I've chosen to go IGH for its even tensioned and equal length spokes which have hopefully made for a stronger wheel than standard.

I'm aware that smaller wheels are stronger having toured on a Moulton for many years but I now feel the larger wheels make for superior comfort.

Cass's wheels are now higher mileage which are offset by as per my recommendations (to the OP) of serviced hub and tensioned spokes before each tour.

I can see your logic in that 29 (700c) is not a common size and the lack of parts is not something I'm disputing.
I guess what I'm saying is that its amazing the many varied bikes in the world and where they have managed to travel to.
I wouldn't let a perceived lack of available parts in a country hold me back from riding there when with some judicious servicing and some appropriate riding style will go along way toward avoiding failure.
Bike frames can break/crack at any time but you wouldnt not ride because of a maybe (would you?)

Chris_W

If you've ridden plenty of rough roads on your current 700c wheels with no problems (as is the case for me), then I would take the risk, and just bring along lots of extra spokes, 3 tubes, and a tire (most of which I'd recommend bringing even if you were riding 26" wheels). If you haven't given your wheels much abuse yet and really tested their durability then I'd be less confident.

Someone mentioned Cass' blog; he actually has a post about his latest wheelset, which are built with 760 gram downhill 29er rims, so he has less to worry about there than most people.

rifraf

I hadnt kept up with his blog lately and spotted his new wheelset.
I dont expect mine to be as strong a set as his.
I've leaned more towards some weight saving, utilzing the same Rohloff (albeit quick release CC) and Son28, but with Velocity Dyads and Sapim Cx-rays.
I think my rims are in the vicinity of 540grams and I stick to 2.00 inch tyres thus far in Supremes and Mondials (for off the tarmac)

Chris Pringle

"Minimizing any possible risks to the max" - I was referring to his selection of components: heavy-duty MTB 29er frameset, custom wheelset, 2.4" fat knobby tires, Rohloff drivetrain, etc. It is obvious that he's riding in very remote places in a very adventurous manner, so he's carefully chosen his gear to minimize any risks of big mechanical failure. This is what I meant.

Agreed that it is amazing where bikes can take you. But again they are just a tool. If given the opportunity and info available one can choose the best possible tool for the job, then one should. If the OP wants to travel to some amazing places such as the ones showcased in Cass' blog (sounds like he does), then he needs to arm himself adequately.

The Toyota Rav4 is a great utilitarian vehicle, for instance. People venture off-road with it, but would you take it off-road to Moab, Baja or to some of the amazing places in Australia's Top End? Again, not the right tool.

rifraf

With regards the thoughts and ideas side of things....
With my last bike, I had trouble finding a local wheel builder so, in anticipation of an approx 4500km trailer towed tour, I utilized the fella's at wheelbuilder.com in sunny California to build up some new hoops for my bike. They were a difficult build involving custom shortening of spokes and provided a very dependable set of wheels that gave me no issue for the time I owned them.
I completed the tour and only recently sold the bike (Moulton APB).
So, just offering a heads up to the said custom California wheelbuilder for good service and a quality build.
I'd shipped over from Australia, a Sram Dualdrive rear hub, Sondelux front, whilst wheelbuilder provided the Velocity Aeroheat rims and shortened spokes.

I wish I'd done the same for my Ogres wheels as there has been issues with the current build, albeit fairly minor niggles apart from the initial incorrect spoke tension.
Despite my giving clear written instructions to a local builder, they mismatched the rim stickers, didnt align the Rohloff drain plug with the valve hole of the rim and neglected to weave the spokes where they cross close to the hub. The incorrect spoke tension was the difference between their approx 740n compared to my instructions of a minimum of 900n.
If these fail, I'll be stripping them and going with wheelbuilder.com

iohan.gue

So I found a surly Troll frame (+ headset, brakes, bb, cranks) for 550$ US. Do you think that's a good deal?

As for the 700c, since I'll be stuck with max of 35mm tires, and to be honest I will probably going to make some detours on rougher roads, switching to bigger tires is definitely a good idea (I ended up going on the Dempster with 700x32 tires on my first tour)


I am also near Toronto and there surely must be somebody who can build good wheels in the area. How much would it cost to build a wheel, if I have all the parts? I know somebody who is going to CA in march and it may not be a bad idea to have him bring the wheel.

Would anybody recommend an online store if I were to buy new rims, spokes, even a hub (or the whole wheel)?

And another note on gears, my bike came with 10 speed cassette at the rear, I never really used half of them. Since I have a choice of changing my rear cassette, any suggestions on how many gears its best to take? (mainly looking from Durability / low cost point of view)

mev

I haven't been through South America (yet) but have crossed Russia (lost one 700c rim), Australia (lost one 700c rim near Broome), Canada (lost three 700c rims) and Africa (lost two 26" rims) and a few other parts in developing world where I didn't lose rims. My perceptions from that and doing my own reading of South American travels:

1. I would be surprised if those "small towns", "remote regions" or "small town in the sticks" that do have 26" rims have much in way of durable quality. My guess is you'd be more likely to find yourself going to a larger place anyways. At least for the strong rims that I sometimes still break, having a small town with same wheel size doesn't help as much for a busted rear wheel. Similar idea about tires: I have a lot more confidence in a folding Schwalbe tire I might have carried along than something of unknown quality that might be same size.

2. Shipping seems to expensive and can be unreliable, particularly if you don't have assistance of a local to catch things when they get stuck in customs or elsewhere. If I'm doing my own trip, might even budget an emergency trip back to pick things up. [I did something similar when I broke a frame going around Australia. There costs of shipping were 2/3rd of the costs of an airline ticket plus I could get exactly what I wanted. I had fewer concerns about shipping bureaucracy/customs but still easier to control things.]

So my sense is it depends a bit on how you see things:

-- If you are not as likely to break rims anyways but you want some assurance of being able to adjust with something that is more common locally - then use the strategy of favoring a bit more what is local, with hopes of at least getting you to Santiago, Lima or other big city where you can sort it out better.

-- If (like me) you have had a past of abusing and breaking rims on tours in similar regions. Then [1] build the strongest I can in advance to avoid breaking things and [2] plan on a trip to largest city or courier or even flight back to US if really get into major issue with rim and [3] take spare parts for other major parts such as tires, tubes, spokes, etc. If I have to break a tie, then might pick 26" but if I've already invested in existing 700c, I'll keep going with that.

A few other random notes:
Not intentionally, but for perhaps half of my cross-Canada trip I happened to have a spare wheel with me: https://www.mvermeulen.com/canada/fotox/jul12_04.jpg

I have also been experimenting with an Extrawheel Trailer as way of having an extra rim: https://www.bike2013.com/wp-content/g...e/dsc_0592.jpg

Despite having wheel builder create what I thought were strong 40 spoke 26" wheels, still had two rims go on trip through Africa: https://www.bike2013.com/wp-content/g...9_edited-1.jpg Replacements for those rims came not from Africa but from rims I brought with me on a supported ride.

Chris Pringle

The Surly Troll makes a great frameset, IMO. I like that it gives you the option for either disc or rim brakes.

My experience is that a good wheelbuilder can get you similar (sometimes even lower prices) than an online store. The expensive part is having a very reliable set of hubs that will allow you to easily perform your own maintenance. As far as rims, even if you decide to build with Avid BB7 disc brakes, I would suggest getting rims with a braking surface in case you ever need to switch to canti or V-brakes. Why don't you start with speaking to the gentleman on post #5 to see how he can assist?

Shimano dominates virtually the entire world. Their MTB drivetrain in 9 (now even 10 speed) can be found commonly in Latin America (I would still pack an extra derailleur and several derailleur hangers.) A standard MTB crankset with 22-34-44T along with 11-34 cassette will work great for loaded touring.

lhendrick

Those hoping to have parts sent to far flung South American destinations should also be forewarned that many of these countries have prohibitively high import taxes to protect the (largely non-existent) local suppliers. In addition packages can get hung up in customs while they try to decipher what you have sent and how to bill it. Meanwhile you will be in a lovely village hut or expensive hotel waiting for your never to arrive parts, unless you can get someone with extensive local language skills and access to intervene on your behalf. Either way, be prepared to make many visits to the customs house to untangle the mess.

It is best if you can adjust your attitude and expectations to allow for the above. The event of a breakdown can provide a great opportunity to experience the local culture. Or not.

My decision for my upcoming SA adventure: I modified my old Trek mountain bike for touring, taking racks, bags and other gear off my LHT 700 bike, and had a tough 26"wheel set built by Peter White (Velocity Aeroheat, SON 28 F hub, Velocity ATB R hub, 36 Wheelsmith DB14 stainless spokes), shod with Schwalbe Marathon Mondials.
My bike loaded for camping, weighs in at 78 lbs, I am 188. I ride slow because I am old and (re)tired. There is nothing on this bike that cannot be replaced or repaired anywhere there are typical bikes. I'll carry along spare tubes and one spare folding tire and a few spokes.

I accept the risk that I may break down. That's what makes it an adventure.

MassiveD

8 max on the gear. The chains go crazy after that. But to take advantage of the rigging angles you need to have a real 8 hub. A lot of folks are using the same specs 8-10, and you are going to get a weaker wheel as a result.

In toronto the Urbane cyclist built me some wheels. I normally do my own, but was in a rush. All up load on the bike for the the 2.5k miles tour was probably around 350. Plus bike. Wheel never moved, or gave any trouble of any kind. Just tell them what you are doing. They deal with a lot of couriers who have fairly similar needs. And folks at the store tour also, they will get those wheels to top performance. Making good wheels is easy. There aren't any secrets. You just need someone who was motivated enough to do the kind of work we need.

From Canada, at the time, I also ordered all my components for two sets of wheels from

https://spicercycles.com/

They will really work with you, and work on postage. But try not to waste their time. The natural gravitational field for US sellers pre 08 crash was to cut canadian customers off. So try to be businesslike. In particular, their long distance is not free for them. Email with tight questions is a big help.

Making your own wheels is dead easy. If you want any help PM me.

fietsbob

Pack spares with you , and arrange mail drops , before you leave..


Arrange for a friend back home to be able to airmail spare tires,


if you are stuck somewhere without any where you happeded to be have them fail..


of course if you are staying web linked you can buy and pay for the fast shipping from online sellers ..

Parcel service companies and post-offices are world wide.

Poste Restante , is like general-delivery to a PO branch .. held in your name ..

mev

Sure DHL and other carriers are world-wide. However, depending on the place one can face two challenges: parcel services often charge scaled on delivering documents. This plus duties can often result in surprisingly high costs.

In addition, things can get stuck in customs; awaiting duties or other paperwork. It is going to be a bit of hit and miss to make sure things are really ready to deliver. Sometimes they might not unless you have extra intervention.

So I would amend the "arrange for a friend" advice above to also (a) cultivate friends who know the local systems and shipping to be able to reliably receive packages (b) have patience (c) anticipate a backup plan such as having a friend of friend who is also traveling be able to courier things or alternate delivery locations.

fietsbob

right up there in commonality is 406 _ 20" wheels .. why Bike Fridays sell so well to touring cyclists,
world wide.

escii_35

Go ghetto common

26in wheels, 7 speed freewheel drive train, 104/64 4 bolt square taper cranks and 135 rear spacing.

or go with what you like. Just remember replacing that super cool wiz bang bottom bracket or 11 speed chain could be really tough.

I personally don't have the mad skillz to ride 700x35 on ripio but you might.

Edit: When my 9 sp rear cassette wears out I may drop down to 8 speeds so replacement chains will be less of an issue. You would think a metro area of almost 1million people in peru would have one 9 speed chain!?!