flippin_bikes

I'll take some pics to show the clearance on mine. Interestingly, the stock 25c tires measured 27mm wide per my digital caliper gauge. The Gators are exactly 28mm, so not undersized. Perhaps what you tried were slightly oversized. Did they rub on the caliper?

marmot

For what my opinion is worth (maybe not too much), I just got back from test-riding a Sojourn. It's my size, it's discounted 50 per cent, but I decided to let someone else reap the bargain. I have to agree with mulveyr. I think it would be fine for loaded touring, not so great as an all-rounder. My aluminum drop-bar hybrid is quicker and more fun to ride, and after riding the same route back to back, I don't see any comfort advantage to the steel-framed Sojourn. They felt about the same over the bumps. And I don't know whether I would live long enough to break in that rock-hard Brooks saddle. Still, it's a beautiful looking bike, and someone who needs a pure tourer is going to get a great bargain at my LBS.

motobecane69

what size is it? if it's the op's size you could buy it for him and ship it to him!

DaHaMac

Marmot, thanks for the current review of the Sojourn. Unfortunately, shipping costs from Ottawa, Canada to Middle Georgia would eat up that 50% off price :O

motobecane69... I am glad that I posted this thread about the Sojourn because the more I hear from fellow Clydes the more I realize that I may not be a "touring" cyclist. It sounds like the Sojourn is a dedicated touring bike for someone who is going to load up and trek for days at a time. While I like the idea of doing that, the wife doesn't and will not ever ride for 8 hours a day and then camp in a pup tent. So, I believe that the best description of bike for which I am looking is a Commuter bike.

I want a bike that will handle decent width tires--not sure if 25 is wide enough--, a bike that has or I can add fenders, and a bike where I can mount at least 2 water bottles and a rear rack with panniers but I don't think I'll ever need front racks. I would also like to be able to do century rides on the bike, commute back and forth to work, trek through country roads, and one day when the engine is well tuned get into the ~20mph avg speed bracket.

Currently on the '11 Voyageur 7 I am averaging 13.5mph and about the same on the '83 World Tourist even though it has a fatter gear. My ride on the '83 Tourist worried me yesterday because I felt like I was pushing the bike on the whole 10 mile ride. I did 14 miles tonight on the '11 Voyageur 7 and felt like I was flying except for the hill climbs. However, I was able to stand and climb some of the hills tonight and when I couldn't finish the hill standing I could quickly get to the 40x34 gear and spin the rest of the way.

I am really curious to know how well the C'dale Synapse 105 will fit into my criteria. The Raleigh Clubman isn't far behind but I am a little worried that I might get that pushing feeling on it that I have with the '83 World Tourist. I gotta plan a trip to the LBS and bug'em.

PS-- I drive the family crazy with my decision making process but when I plan on shelling out $1000+ for a hobby I want the maximum bang for the buck.

mulveyr 

Yep, the ones I tried were rubbing on the top of the caliper. Heck, I probably could have shaved a few hundredths of a MM off the tire or caliper and it would have fit. ;-)

CraigB

Not sure about tire clearances, or the rear rack, but I know the Synapse will take fenders.

motobecane69

great information. you need a bike like mine with the exception of maybe drop bars on it. this is the nashbar touring frame, with their carbon fiber cyclocross fork. It's riding on 35c tires but it can take 40C's easy. Question for you, Are you dead set on Steel? this frame is aluminum but honestly with the carbon fork and larger tires it rides like beauty. nice soft smooth ride like cadillac. I think people who obsess over steel are people who are putting it on a true road bike and planning on running it with 23 or 25c tires or true touring aficienados who want the perceived greater durability of a steel frame bike for loading it up with additional weight. But honestly, an aluminum frame on 32c tires with a proper saddle and carbon fork is gonna ride quite nice.



because i built this up piecemeal it cost me close to $1000. some say it was foolish but it was built for my specific commuting and foulweather needs. my recommendation to you would be to consider either a bike from bikesdirect.com or a one of nashbar's road bikes. Nashbar doesn't sell a full version of their touring bike, only the frame, however, the frame is only $75-100 dollars so you could buy their entry level road bike or a bikes direct road bike and then spend an extra $100 for the nashbar frame and then swap all the parts over. That is a pretty good cost effective option and the touring frame would give you a comfortable geometry that you could easily do century's on and not have any heel strike issues with panniers that you may encounter if you simply mount a rack on a regular road bike.

ps. yes I know the rack isn't level. I didn't install it, haven't gotten around to fixing it!

motobecane69

guess what? I was just on NAshbar's site, they have a Steel Touring bike they are putting out next month. Very nice price for a solidly equipped bike.
https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._10000__202339

mulveyr 

Interesting! It's almost like a canti-equipped, Brooks-less Sojourn. :-) That could be a great deal!

DaHaMac

That bike from Nashbar is really interesting. I think I'll go bug the guy at the LBS today and see if he has any new recommendations.

I commuted home from work yesterday (21 miles) with a guy that commutes both ways almost every day. He was riding a Salsa and the orange is not as off-putting in person and the online photo seemed. This fellow rides almost everyday and when I mentioned the goal of averaging 19-20 mph he stated that it takes a lot of time to get that fast. His average speed is about 15mph on his commutes. I do know that I have a lot more riding to do because when we got to the hills, I was dropped pretty quickly. Thankfully he'd slow up until I could catch up.

So, now more than before I know that I need a long distance bike with drop handle bars for maximum number of hand positions with a wide range of gears and I would prefer 32-38 width tires and do not want bar-end shifters. I once thought that the bike had to be steel but I'd be content with an Alloy frame so long as I knew it was going to last. I don't foresee ever being so far from home that I need a welded repair on the frame just to keep going. I am really liking the gearing on the Raleigh Clubman but I am not liking the narrow tires.

wfournier

Another bike to check out might be the surly pacer, I've been considering getting something a little more "sporty" bur can still ride all day and was looking at the pacer. I believe I read somewhere that it will fit 35mm tires.

DaHaMac

Rode 30 miles to the nearest LBS on the Schwinn Voyaguer 7 and back home. My first 60 miler even though it was in two parts. The LBS was not very helpful in suggesting alternatives to the Raleigh Sojourn.

I've been digging some more online and I found this.

Steel Frame ... check
Wide Range of Gears ... (CR 50/39/30 - Sprocket 12-30) ... check
Fenders ... check
Rack mounts ... check
Brifters instead of Bar end ... check
At least 28 width tires ... check
Dealer within 100 miles ... check
Reasonable color ... check
Price ... scared to find out

Bike ... drum roll ... 2012 Jamis Bosanova

Frame Reynolds 520 double-butted chromoly main tubes with SST
tubing diameters, double-tapered cromo stays, extended head
tube with reinforced collars, custom laser cut road disc dropouts
with double eyelets
Fork Carbon fiber unicrown with disc mount, steel steerer,
forged dropouts
Headset Ritchey Logic, Aheadset, 1 1/8”
Wheels Alex DC25 disc specific double-wall rim, 32H, Formula alloy
disc road hubs and 14g stainless steel spokes
Tires Vittoria Randonneur Cross with Double Shield puncture
protection, 700 x 28c
Derailleurs Shimano Tiagra RD-4600GS rear and Tiagra FD-4603 front
with 28.6mm alloy clamp
Shiftlevers Shimano Tiagra ST-4600 Dual Control STI, 30-Speed
Chain KMC DX10SC
Cassette Shimano 10-Speed 12-30T
Crankset FSA Vero triple with PowerDrive, 50/39/30T, 170mm (48/51),
172.5mm (54/56), 175mm (58/61)
BB Set FSA PowerDrive sealed cartridge, 68 x 118mm
Pedals Touring platform style, full alloy with toe clips
Brakeset Avid BB-5 cable actuated disc brake with 160mm G2
CleanSweep rotors and Shimano Tiagra STI levers
Handlebar Ritchey BioMax Road, 6061 aluminum, 31.8 x 400mm (48/51),
420mm (54/56), 440mm (58/61)
Stem NVO Components TM-3 adjustable threadless system (ATS)
forged aluminum stem, 10º x 90mm (48/51), 105mm (54/56),
115mm (58/61). ATS shim length 100mm
Tape Jamis suede tape with Jamis logo and “J” end plug
Seat Post Jamis alloy micro-adjust, 27.2 x 350mm with cromo seat pin
Saddle Selle San Marco SPID Arrowhead with Syntex cover and carbon
steel rails
Accessories Full coverage fenders with adjustable stays & mud flaps
Sizes 48, 51, 54, 56, 58, 61cm
Color White Shadow/Gloss Black
Weight 27.00lbs

Anyone got any ideas why the Jamis might not be the perfect light touring/commuter/road (smooth and rough) bike?

BTW, on my trek to the bike store today I hit a dirt road. I do not ever want to ride on a dirt road again with the Voyageur much less with something like the Bossanova.

motobecane69

in my opinoin that bike is overpriced for the components that are on it. it's tiagra/sora and MSRP of 1150. they also skmped on the brakes using avid bb-5 vs the better bb-7 brakes the nashbar bike is probably a better value or i would buy a full ultegra bike from bikes direct for $1000 and then swap the components onto another steel frame and for about $1500 you would have a really nice bike. By the same token, as a commuter bike you don't necessarily want a bike with pricey components on it either but just don't pay a lot of money for mediocre components. also, stop worrying about tire size, it's easy enough to just buy the size tires you want, you need to be worried about the frame being able to fit larger tires, not the size of the tires that come with the bike.

M_Wales

The 2012 lineup is looking very good. I have been a Raleigh fan since my Supercourse mkII in the mid 70's. I ride 2 Raleigh's now that are in my sig. and really enjoy them both. The 2012 Militis 3 and Revenio 3.0 frames are really hot and hope to add one of them to my collection..

rideorglide

I rode a 5-speed Raleigh in the early 1970s. Wish I'd known enough to keep the Brooks it came with.

Back then you really had to give the chrome wheel rims a lot of TLC/polish as they pitted and rusted in no time. Much has changed since then for sure.

Good luck with the new bike, I like the look from the various pics on the web.

bbunk

DaHaMac,

I would ride the Jamis if I were you. I bought the Jamis Aurora for my commuter/all around bike and have really enjoyed it. Good ride on 32c tires. I plan to change the saddle in the future but the stock saddle is not bad.

DaHaMac

I am liking what I see from Jamis. Both the Aurora and the Bosanova are listed as being the same weight by Jamis (sorry the specs are in a pdf from Facebook).

In a perfect world I would be able to ride both the Raleigh Sojourn and Jamis bikes before buying but all of these bikes seem to be special order items. I did talk to a different Bike Store last week and I am encouraged that this new store really wants to help me find the right bike. I hope they will be open and the guy I talked to available Labor Day weekend.

WolfsBane

Had a chance to ride the Raleigh Clubman. Nice bike. The only thing I didn't like is that it comes with 700 x 25cm tires, and living in the Boise/Meridian, Idaho area, I need to have at least 700 x 28cm tires to handle the unimproved, (and quite frankly unfinished chip seal surfaced), bike lanes that feel more like off road trails. Unfortunately, when the gentleman at the LBS and I took a look at the clearances, it doesn't look like we would be able to fit anything bigger than the 25cm stock tires.

I love the overall package that the new Raleigh Roper brings, though. And plenty of clearance for fenders. A few more bucks, though.

Mtbnomore

My advice would be the Surly Pacer: https://surlybikes.com/bikes/pacer

I rode my Pacer for 5 years, and loved every second of it. It fits your criteria on both price and value, as well as frame material, tire and fender clearances (Fatties Fit Fine, as Surly says), and also size choices and availability (Surly, like Salsa, is owned by QBP, which is probably the biggest distributor in the US). I only gave mine up after getting an amazing deal on a Scott road bike, but I still have my Cross Check, which is a close second in my heart behind the Pacer.

Give it a look. The best part about the Surly stuff is that it very easily grows with you. As you get better and more experienced, and get the desire to upgrade, the bike will be right there with you. I rode mine on my first 15 mile rides all the way up to centuries.

DaHaMac

Mtbnomore - The Pacer is a nice road bike but the shorter chainstays (410mm) and lack of rack mounts disqualify it for my desired purposes.

Evidently, I am a Randonneur wannabe. Therefore, as a Commuter/Randonneur in training I will need the racks at some point. I currently ride with my Panniers in place even on weekend training rides.

I finally made it to the aforementioned LBS (~42 miles from house) that carries Jamis bikes. Although this LBS primarily sells Giant the technician I talked with is also a Commuter/Randonneur and after about an hour of conversation convinced my that the Aurora fits my needs the best. To prove the point that the barcons shouldn't be a deal breaker he arranged for me to ride an Aurora even though they didn't have one in stock. I got to ride the Aurora Saturday night and I am sold. I am just waiting on tax refund and the Aurora Elite to be available so that I will have new ride. Yes, the Elite is overbudget but it does meet my criteria more closely than any other bike at which I have looked. If I were going to go with a fully loaded Touring Bike then the Sojourn would move back to 1st place with the Salsa Vaya 3 knocking hard at the door.

Of course, if I truly had no upper budget limits then I would either have a Salsa Vaya Ti built to my specifications or I would buy a Co-Motion Cascadia. I guess those bikes will be my n+1 bikes

flippin_bikes

Cheers to the Aurora. I loved mine and somewhat regret selling it despite it being too small. The Elite should be a nice step up. I always like my Reynolds 631 mtb and I figure that would make a nice riding roadie.