curttard

Looks like those three spacers could go at least.



Well sure, but then you could swap those parts onto a Diverge, too.

Retail to retail, the 2018 Diverge E5 Comp and 2017 Raleigh Tamland 1 are the same price, but the Diverge is 1.75lb lighter than Raleigh's listed spec for Tamland (which means the difference might actually be 2lb since manufacturers tend to be optimistic).

shoota 

Oh I see those spacers now, not sure how I missed them.

Sure, you could put all the parts on the Diverge that I bought, then it would be north of $2400 so... I guess I'm saying the retail of $1800 for the Diverge doesn't compare to the discount of the Tamland at $800 very well

curttard

2017 Tamland 1 on Raleigh site with corporate discount is $1140, was there some big sale I missed? $800 would be a crazy deal.

I do think Raleigh has some of the best looking bikes around, their paintjobs are so classy. I love the look of the Tamland 2 the most, I think. Well actually the Clubman Carbon takes the cake.

shoota 

Yep, I got mine for $799 shipped. I've seen it as low as $6xx.

Rennvelo

Thanks for your response. Does the Comp E5 have a 105 mid cage RD?

curttard

I don't know if it's fair to say "Diverge is a bad value assuming you can find a deal on another bike for a total of 50% off retail between corporate discounts and a big sale", though....

BluesDawg

The specs online do not specify this, but based on the photos and the fact that the bike comes with an 11-32 cassette, I think it is safe to say yes.

shoota 

Fair enough. But I do feel good about myself though lol

wheelhot

If by slammed you mean inverted, then yes you can, it'll look a little weird but if I recall, pros who rode at Paris Roubaix has inverted stems on their Spesh Roubaix.

And I measured my Roubaix which probably has the same dimensions, the 3 spacers height is around 20mm, and you can change the plastic cup to a low profile one so I guess all in you got 25mm of stack adjustment?

Rennvelo

@BluesDawg: Glad to have experts in this forum!

shoota 

Nope, that's not slammed. They had inverted stems because they couldn't slam their stem. Thanks for the info on the adjustment, appreciated.

eppan

Diverge-headsets.jpg

Left: No spacers, and shallow futureshock topcoat
Right: 3 spacers, and taller futureshock topcoat

Lazyass

If you had it slammed there would be no suspension travel.

shoota 

Yeah so basically if you want lower bars you're forced to use an inverted stem.

sgtrobo

I was only on a smaller smooth area, I was mostly on cobble, so I didn't get a chance to put a good # of miles. I will say this, the Diverge itself did *not* feel sluggish at all on the flatened area, and on the few occasions when I really stood to hammer. I'm going to be going in again to do some more test riding on the Diverge and I'll keep this in mind to see if it is a true "Roubaix replacement" on the road

wheelhot

But Roubaix is designed for roads :haha:

Lazyass

FWIW, I just found this old advertisement from Specialized. They say the Zertz damper is equivalent to taking 30psi out of a 23c tire.


The facts on FACT

fruitpunch.ben

Regarding (3) Do you mean that the ride position is notably more relaxed than the 2015 Roubaix, or the 2017? If the 2015, that's pretty relaxed then! Did you notice a big difference in how fast it felt?

Regarding (1) How much of a difference does future shock make? I.e. if I can get a 2015 Roubaix for half the price of the alloy diverge with future shock, should I? Or am I going to regret not having future shock?

sgtrobo

no, notably more relaxed than the Sequoia and 2017 Roubaix, more relaxed than the 2015 Roubaix. It felt damned fast, but I mainly focused on the climbing aspects. I was really worried about my 115kg butt bouncing around on the Future Shock, so I focused hard on standing and hammering, climbing, climbing out of the saddle, and hitting the cobbles.

It won't be as fast on the road as a Roubaix. There's simply no way it will, nor should it, for the same reason a Roubaix won't be as fast on smooth tarmac as...well....a Tarmac. This isn't the bike to race crits or road races. This isn't the bike to take on a club training ride where you maintain 40km/h in a paceline for a metric century.
What this bike seems to be for is to do a 50-250 km mixed surface race/ride as fast and comfortable as possible. I'm fairly well convinced this is about as good as it gets.

I'd call this a 75/25 bike. If you're going to do about 3/4 of your mileage on the road, I'm betting you will love the Diverge. If you're looking at 90/10, then probably stick with the Roubaix. If you're looking at 25/75, then consider a Salsa Cutthroat.

Don't focus on the Future Shock so much. Focus on the capabilities of these bikes. The Roubaix is a road bike, the Diverge a gravel bike.
The Roubaix is capable of high speed club ride/races on pavement, the Diverge is not.
The Diverge is capable of fast, long, hard (that's what she said) rides both on-road and off-road, on pavement and gravel, and even some hardpack/flowy singletrack (no roots, rocks, or drops though), the Roubaix is not.

If I was exclusively a roadie, then I wouldn't even consider the Diverge. I'd just upgrade my Roubaix with nicer wheels or some more carbon bits, or I'd consider a 2017 Roubaix (although the hunks of titanium and kevlar that sit where my C6/C7 used to sit don't like the 2017 Roubaix geometry much)

The only reason I'm considering replacing my Roubaix with the Diverge is because n=s-1 right now. That means n+1 equals s, and I will be SOL, if you feel me.

fruitpunch.ben

Well n+2 = s right now for me. I only get one (more) bike for a long time. I'm pretty sure I'll be 90/10 but I'm thinking the Diverge does seem to be a fantastic "hedge your bets" sort of bike, particularly since I have no interest in races or club rides. I have no need to fear being dropped, I just need a bike that feels fast and is relatively adaptable if I take the dirt track home...

Complicating things is that there's a bunch of roubaix's on Craigslist for really good deals right now, and not much else in the endurance/adventure bike category. Buying a three year old bike for half price will certainly help the s factor.

But you've been helpful, thanks.

sgtrobo

no problemo. If you have a desire to go off road some, hit some gravel roads, maybe some dirt roads, and still go fast on the road, then the Diverge would make a good choice. If you get a Roubaix, you won't go on those dirt/gravel roads. If you're ok with that, then I can tell you without reservation that the 2015 Roubaix I have is completely awesome.

curttard

I can't remember if you said, had you ridden the 2017 and previous Diverge? Because many reviews of the previous year Diverges said that they absolutely could be ridden on high speed club rides on pavement. And user reviews on the FB group say things like it feels as fast as their Tarmacs on flats and downhills, just a bit heavier uphill.

I'm wondering if the 2018 is different enough to be noticeably slower on the road.

Lazyass

I rode my Diverge on my club ride last Sunday. I was always one of the strongest riders and I still was on the Diverge. I'm no slower on it than on my 16lb Focus with 25c tires and 1400g wheels. Absolutely no difference at all. My average MPH solo is no different. Nor am I any slower on my vintage bikes. My last 100K I did in May I finished first with one other guy on my 34 year old Univega with a 6 speed freewheel, dropping people who's wheels cost many times more than what I paid for my complete bike. And I'm 49 years old. The guy right behind me was even older, and he was on a 10 year old Bikes Direct Motobecane. The next group with carbon wonder bikes and wheels finished 10 minutes later.

Does it "feel" slightly sluggish? A little, but 445g tires don't help. Does that translate into actually being slower? No. Look at this bike and tell me why it is not capable of high speed rides.

curttard

This is the kind of info I like to hear.

What I'm wondering now is, would the 2018 (one of the FutureShock models) feel (and perform) as fast? How about a Fuji Jari or Raleigh Willard?

Lazyass

There's no reason why it wouldn't. For me personally, mine didn't feel like a proper road bike until I got the gearing sorted out with an 11-28 and a 53/39 crankset. Now it feels like any other road bike, it just rides smoother. I'm sure the '18 would be the same. I hate the way bikes are geared now. They're more suited for a mountain bike.

The Race Face crankset/bb and saddle alone dropped a pound off mine.