Ever order from Serbia? How’d that go?
06-05-20, 01:07 PM
#51
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I've sent bicycle parts to three different members in the past couple of months. That's going from Canada to the United States and I think that the old Pony Express would have been faster for delivery. Canada Post was even advising not sending small parcels because the postal system was so overloaded.
I guess the mantra these days is "Expect Delays".
Cheers
I guess the mantra these days is "Expect Delays".
Cheers
06-05-20, 01:54 PM
#52
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Right. So Italy has five times as much theft per capita as the Eastern European country in question. The only way you can say Serbians are more likely to be selling bicycles stolen from Italy than Italians selling bicycles stolen from Italy, is if you assume that people from a nation with 1/5 the average theft are committing five times as many crimes abroad.
Yet you're not questioning the reputation of the sellers in Italy.
Total nonsense.
Yet you're not questioning the reputation of the sellers in Italy.
Total nonsense.
Crime rates? Those statistics generally include a broad spectrum of "crimes" (or in this case thefts), so you have to dig a little deeper. Italy is actually a very safe place, and even big cities like Rome have inflated numbers due to the large number of petty crimes that take place, many of them related to the huge numbers of tourists visiting every year.
But we are talking specifically about C&V bike parts, no? We know that cycling has always been a hugely popular sport in Italy, and we know that Italy was known for building some of the world's best bikes and components during the period that is now considered C&V. Were people riding bikes in Eastern Europe? Sure they were. Was Italy more open to trading with Eastern European and Communist countries compared to other Western countries that implemented embargoes or trade restrictions? Yes. Does that account for the relatively large number of C&V parts being sold out of Eastern Europe (and no, we aren't talking about new production decals (licensed?) or parts)? I'm skeptical.
Earlier you claimed that the idea of organized crime rings stealing bikes from Western Europe and bringing them to Eastern Europe was akin to using drugs. I then posted three links (which took 2 minutes to find) that proved evidence that it is indeed a real phenomenon, and you simply decided to continue accusing me of bias, ignoring those links completely.
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06-05-20, 02:06 PM
#53
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Earlier you claimed that the idea of organized crime rings stealing bikes from Western Europe and bringing them to Eastern Europe was akin to using drugs. I then posted three links (which took 2 minutes to find) that proved evidence that it is indeed a real phenomenon, and you simply decided to continue accusing me of bias, ignoring those links completely.
https://worldcrunch.com/culture-soci...0least%20once.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ol%20of%2022m.
I'm not arguing against the idea that there is some organized crime surrounding bicycle parts, and certainly some of it must be based in eastern Europe. But there's absolutely no reason to focus on eastern Europe as if it is some kind of endemic problem unique to that area.
Your initial post said you thought that much of the stuff being sold in eastern Europe may have been stolen. If you honestly believe that, then the same statement should apply to bicycle parts being sold in most of Europe, the United States, and perhaps anywhere in the world.
So, what's your point?
06-05-20, 02:08 PM
#54
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06-05-20, 02:19 PM
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I read the links. It's very interesting. But you are still being extremely biased if you want to suggest worrying about stolen goods being sold via eBay from Serbia versus Italy, or Lithuania versus England, or wherever... Bicycle theft is a really big problem in urban England, France, and Italy. A vast majority of it is obviously domestic.
https://worldcrunch.com/culture-soci...0least%20once.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ol%20of%2022m.
I'm not arguing against the idea that there is some organized crime surrounding bicycle parts, and certainly some of it must be based in eastern Europe. But there's absolutely no reason to focus on eastern Europe as if it is some kind of endemic problem unique to that area.
Your initial post said you thought that much of the stuff being sold in eastern Europe may have been stolen. If you honestly believe that, then the same statement should apply to bicycle parts being sold in most of Europe, the United States, and perhaps anywhere in the world.
So, what's your point?
https://worldcrunch.com/culture-soci...0least%20once.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ol%20of%2022m.
I'm not arguing against the idea that there is some organized crime surrounding bicycle parts, and certainly some of it must be based in eastern Europe. But there's absolutely no reason to focus on eastern Europe as if it is some kind of endemic problem unique to that area.
Your initial post said you thought that much of the stuff being sold in eastern Europe may have been stolen. If you honestly believe that, then the same statement should apply to bicycle parts being sold in most of Europe, the United States, and perhaps anywhere in the world.
So, what's your point?
Again, you are arriving at inaccurate conclusions (for one reason or another), and then making accusations based on those nonsensical conclusions.
Crime rates? Those statistics generally include a broad spectrum of "crimes" (or in this case thefts), so you have to dig a little deeper. Italy is actually a very safe place, and even big cities like Rome have inflated numbers due to the large number of petty crimes that take place, many of them related to the huge numbers of tourists visiting every year.
But we are talking specifically about C&V bike parts, no? We know that cycling has always been a hugely popular sport in Italy, and we know that Italy was known for building some of the world's best bikes and components during the period that is now considered C&V. Were people riding bikes in Eastern Europe? Sure they were. Was Italy more open to trading with Eastern European and Communist countries compared to other Western countries that implemented embargoes or trade restrictions? Yes. Does that account for the relatively large number of C&V parts being sold out of Eastern Europe (and no, we aren't talking about new production decals (licensed?) or parts)? I'm skeptical.
Earlier you claimed that the idea of organized crime rings stealing bikes from Western Europe and bringing them to Eastern Europe was akin to using drugs. I then posted three links (which took 2 minutes to find) that proved evidence that it is indeed a real phenomenon, and you simply decided to continue accusing me of bias, ignoring those links completely.
Crime rates? Those statistics generally include a broad spectrum of "crimes" (or in this case thefts), so you have to dig a little deeper. Italy is actually a very safe place, and even big cities like Rome have inflated numbers due to the large number of petty crimes that take place, many of them related to the huge numbers of tourists visiting every year.
But we are talking specifically about C&V bike parts, no? We know that cycling has always been a hugely popular sport in Italy, and we know that Italy was known for building some of the world's best bikes and components during the period that is now considered C&V. Were people riding bikes in Eastern Europe? Sure they were. Was Italy more open to trading with Eastern European and Communist countries compared to other Western countries that implemented embargoes or trade restrictions? Yes. Does that account for the relatively large number of C&V parts being sold out of Eastern Europe (and no, we aren't talking about new production decals (licensed?) or parts)? I'm skeptical.
Earlier you claimed that the idea of organized crime rings stealing bikes from Western Europe and bringing them to Eastern Europe was akin to using drugs. I then posted three links (which took 2 minutes to find) that proved evidence that it is indeed a real phenomenon, and you simply decided to continue accusing me of bias, ignoring those links completely.
06-05-20, 02:46 PM
#56
Senior Member
eBay purchase on a Monday night, shipped from Istanbul, Turkey... received 4 days later in Friday...free shipping! Gorgeous shift lever for the Benz.
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06-05-20, 03:01 PM
#57
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Beautiful, and an impressive shipping time to boot! I really wanted a wooden shift knob just like that for my '83 240D. It was also a manual, but the semi-floppy rubberized one stayed with me until I sold the car... Alas! What year and model do you have there?
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06-05-20, 04:04 PM
#59
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I read the links. It's very interesting. But you are still being extremely biased if you want to suggest worrying about stolen goods being sold via eBay from Serbia versus Italy, or Lithuania versus England, or wherever... Bicycle theft is a really big problem in urban England, France, and Italy. A vast majority of it is obviously domestic.
https://worldcrunch.com/culture-soci...0least%20once.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ol%20of%2022m.
I'm not arguing against the idea that there is some organized crime surrounding bicycle parts, and certainly some of it must be based in eastern Europe. But there's absolutely no reason to focus on eastern Europe as if it is some kind of endemic problem unique to that area.
Your initial post said you thought that much of the stuff being sold in eastern Europe may have been stolen. If you honestly believe that, then the same statement should apply to bicycle parts being sold in most of Europe, the United States, and perhaps anywhere in the world.
So, what's your point?
https://worldcrunch.com/culture-soci...0least%20once.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ol%20of%2022m.
I'm not arguing against the idea that there is some organized crime surrounding bicycle parts, and certainly some of it must be based in eastern Europe. But there's absolutely no reason to focus on eastern Europe as if it is some kind of endemic problem unique to that area.
Your initial post said you thought that much of the stuff being sold in eastern Europe may have been stolen. If you honestly believe that, then the same statement should apply to bicycle parts being sold in most of Europe, the United States, and perhaps anywhere in the world.
So, what's your point?
Again, don't twist or misinterpret my words.
I can post links like these all day long:
https://www.ravennatoday.it/cronaca/c...te-faenza.html
https://www.iene.mediaset.it/video/p...na_65821.shtml
https://www.tech-cycling.it/bici-rubate-ritrovi-web/
https://inchieste.repubblica.it/it/r...ici-154929134/
Last edited by robertorolfo; 06-05-20 at 04:19 PM.
06-05-20, 04:23 PM
#60
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Neither of those links is particularly relevant to the conversation. With Italy being such a big country for cycling (both in the use and production of bikes and bike parts), it seems logical that they would have a healthy second hand market. Are some of those items stolen? Perhaps. But one would think a higher percentage of them are legitimate compared to other locations. This isn't some opinion based on bias and wild ideas, it is grounded in facts and reality.
Again, don't twist or misinterpret my words.
Again, don't twist or misinterpret my words.
The accusation that a high enough percentage of vintage bicycle parts being sold out of Eastern Europe are stolen to merit special attention, compared to anywhere else in Europe, is not supported by the numerical evidence provided in your examples, even assuming they account for a fraction of the reality. This is your original phrasing:
"I would unfortunately think that a lot of that stuff is stolen"
If you're unwilling to say the same about things sold in Italy or England, where bicycle theft is rampant and clearly mostly domestic - as all theft is - then that's bias. Plain and simple.
06-05-20, 04:29 PM
#61
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Firstly, there are many, many times more bicycle parts being sold on eBay by Italian, French, and English sellers than from any country in eastern Europe. More than enough to make up for the population differences and varied levels of popularity and production. There is not some unusually huge trove of stolen bicycle goods sitting in Serbia or Lithuania that are suddenly popping up all over the internet. If you think so then you need to look at the auction sites more carefully.
The accusation that a high enough percentage of vintage bicycle parts being sold out of Eastern Europe are stolen to merit special attention, compared to anywhere else in Europe, is not supported by the numerical evidence provided in your examples, even assuming they account for a fraction of the reality. This is your original phrasing:
"I would unfortunately think that a lot of that stuff is stolen"
If you're unwilling to say the same about things sold in Italy or England, where bicycle theft is rampant and clearly mostly domestic - as all theft is - then that's bias. Plain and simple.
The accusation that a high enough percentage of vintage bicycle parts being sold out of Eastern Europe are stolen to merit special attention, compared to anywhere else in Europe, is not supported by the numerical evidence provided in your examples, even assuming they account for a fraction of the reality. This is your original phrasing:
"I would unfortunately think that a lot of that stuff is stolen"
If you're unwilling to say the same about things sold in Italy or England, where bicycle theft is rampant and clearly mostly domestic - as all theft is - then that's bias. Plain and simple.
06-05-20, 04:30 PM
#62
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"What happens to all these stolen bicycles? Sometimes they leave national borders to head east. Romania, Poland, the Czech Republic, sometimes even Ukraine and Russia. But very often they remain within our country, because traveling with a truck full of stolen bikes is undoubtedly risky. Then it becomes easier to photograph and sell them on the internet, preferably on non-European sites, against which - for law enforcement agencies - it is difficult to act promptly due to existing regulatory constraints."
Which seems obvious if you stop to consider the total numbers.
06-05-20, 04:44 PM
#63
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This thread has gone so far off of the rails that it isn't worth saving.
Good job guys.
Good job guys.
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