Synmag

Devinci 2016 Oslo Sora (9x2):
https://www.lacordee.com/en/devinci-oslo-2016-bike
Or the 2020 Hex Deore (9x1):
https://www.devinci.com/bikes/bike_1296_scategory_296

In 2020 the Hex is a higher-end model which is lighter but the 2016 Oslo with the Sora groupset compares to the 2020 Hex Sora which is CAD$250 more expensive than the Hex Deore. Would you take the 2020 Hex Deore over the 2016 Oslo Sora? Note that the Hex has disc brakes which I don't really need. I'm wondering if the 2020 Hex is in fact lighter than the 2016 Oslo. I find the 2016 Oslo pretty light already.

From my perspective the pro is that the Hex is lighter, if in fact it is lighter, and if the disc version is lighter than the 2016 v-brake then there is no weight penalty and might as well go with it. The two cons are that the Deore seems to be lower-end than the Sora based on price only, I could be wrong there, and it's a 9x1 (even though it's a plus as it's lighter).

Finally, the odd thing is that the 2020 Hex is 9 speed when Deore went 10 speed in 2011, and in 2020 speeds 10-12 were available according to the Shimano wiki page. So technically the 2016 has more modern equipment than the 2020 Hex. Is this common practice to be using 10 year old equipment on brand new bikes? Would it matter?

Thanks for any input, especially if you have experience with the older models of the Devinci brand.

EDIT: further research found that in 2018 Devinci sold the Oslo Sora and Hex Deore in the same year and both were priced at an MSRP of CAD$1049.

https://2018.devinci.com/bikes/category_59
Here is the full history if anyone is interested of all their bikes including weights and MSRP in CAD:
https://www.devinci.com/archive/index.html

To answer my own question the 2020 Hex Deore is about half a pound lighter than the 2016 Oslo Sora. So the disc bike is actually lighter than the v-brake one mostly due to the lack of the front shifter/derailleur due to the 9x1.

Speedway2

My buddy recently picked up a 2020 Hex (9x1). All I can say is he loves riding the bike in the City (lives in mid-town Toronto).
Toronto is a big bike market but he had to drive to Montreal to get one and has no regrets......

Synmag

Yes, I love my Oslo as well, hence the conundrum. The seller thought the Hex Deore was 3-5lb lighter which if true I might have overlooked the 9x1 drivetrain. According to the Devinci archive link above, which actually has the weights of their bikes, the 2020 Hex Deore is barely a half a pound lighter than my Oslo. Plus I like the looks of mine better so I decided to pass on it. The interesting thing was that the Hex is lighter even with the disc brakes. But again, I don't really need disc brakes as I was happy with my last bike for 9 years where I only had to adjust the brakes once to compensate for ware after about 20,000kms. That was another consideration for not going with it base on what I have been reading that you need to change the brake pads regularly with discs.

subgrade

Deore is actually higher end than Sora. Looking at the series number is an easy way to determine which is higher end (the first mumber is the one that denotes the hierachy), although the road and MTB/trekking component line-ups seem to not correspond exactly, but close enough. In broad strokes it goes like this:

Road:
1) Dura Ace
2) Ultegra
3) 105
4) Tiagra
5) Sora
6) Claris
7) Tourney

MTB:
1) XTR
2) XT
3) SLX / LX
4) Deore
5) Alivio
6) Acera, Altus
7) Tourney

hokiefyd 

The RD-M592 in use on the 2020 Hex bike is an older generation of Deore, from when it was 9-speed. It's probably from 4-5 years ago.

Sora's part number series is R3000. Acera is M3000 (R = Road, M = Mountain)...so you could say that Sora is about equivalent to Acera if trying to compare road and mountain groups (but there's really no direct equivalency anyway). Deore has moved to 10+ speeds these days. So current Sora would be "below" current Deore in terms of the product range.

subgrade

As you said, the ranges aren't exactly parallel, but still quite close. The newest Alivio range has been demoted to M3100, whereas Deore has now spread over 3 levels - M4100 (10 speed), M5100 (11 speed) and M6100 (12 speed). M592 is from 2009-2012, but can be still found on new bikes and also as replacement parts - pretty much the highest-range 9-speed option available today. Some stores still carry XT M770 series 9-speed parts but those are becoming exceedingly rare.

hokiefyd 

I didn't know the M592 was that old!

Many bikes still come with the RD-M360 (branded Acera) for 8-speed drivetrains. I think the M360 is also probably 10+ years old. Acera has, of course, moved on to 9-speed now, but that M360 is still a rugged derailleur that performs well. I have it on a few bikes.

I guess Shimano keeps making some of these older designs, even though they're not found on their website as part of their current product portfolio.

subgrade

RD-M360 was supposedly introduced in 2008. And yes, it still seems to be the go-to 8-speed derailleur by most mfrs. I had one, but I I wouldn't call it rugged, as after less than two years of riding (including 2 not very snowy winters) it had become very sloppy, there was a play no less than half step between the cogs. I replaced it with a little used XT RD-M750 which has seen as much use by me now and is still in tip-top condition save for a few scratches and fading paint.

hokiefyd 

One of my favorite "old" derailleurs is the STX line from the 1990s. I've two of them, and they index nicely and shift very crisp. It's hard to beat some of these older mid- and upper-range components.

The M360 definitely has more plastic than these. Two of the link pins are in alloy, but then two are in the plastic knuckle. Most of these older mid- and upper-range derailleurs had all metal bodies that just wear really well.

Synmag

Ok, so it's easy enough to find the hierarchy for each type (MTB/road) and while it's also easy to count down/up levels to match them but I have found it's not that simple. There is "bracket creep" as features are added and subsequently pushed down the food chain. It really doesn't help when 10 year old parts are put on new bikes either. As features are passed down it's possible that a current lower level part is similar to an older higher level part.

I watched a bunch of videos by a youtuber called sickbiker who breaks things down nicely but there is still no clear cut answer because a lot depends on how one uses the bike. For example, he breaks it down to two groups within each set i.e. 105-Dura Ace is mainly for racers and Claris-Tiagra is for casual riders. I like how he points out what differentiating features are added to which component as you go up the range. This is probably why bike manufacturers mix and match components. Here is the link to the road bikes:


Another thing is that there are several types of features which may or may not be important to the user i.e. the highest end components mainly save weight which may be the difference of winning or not winning in the pro races but it's most likely not worth the cost for a non racer. The lower end ones may actually be more durable but perfectly sufficient for a weekend rider. For example my bike has 9x2 but it has a higher range than my last bike which was 9x3. It really doesn't help either that my crank is FSA so I'd have to research their lineup to see if it's better or worse than a Sora. Another type is a functional difference. One of the things that I really like on the sora which is the same on Deore is the triple up shift. What I don't like is the single downshift but interestingly on the higher end MTB sets the shifter can do quad upshift and double down. But again, that becomes more valuable as one adds gears.

One thing I haven't checked yet is when a feature is passed down the chain does it get incorporated into the design with a new part number or they just use the same part in the lower set. I guess it's the former as many parts have the set name printed on them or they look obviously different.

This is a great discussion BTW as when I was searching earlier I couldn't find threads that discuss the nuances of the different sets.

Synmag

That's the one annoying thing with progress is when durability is sacrificed for performance!

subgrade

While the technology does "trickle down" the hierarchy, the materials used don't. So it's reasonable to expect that while a M2000 derailleur while similar in design, wouldn't perform as good as a M592.

Synmag

It makes sense for materials not to trickle down as they are used in order to gain the weight savings. The question is how is performance affected? They are both 9 speed so is the M592 faster/crisper/smoother/quiter? Does it matter to your use case? For example, on the higher end MTB sets, sickbiker says the shifters are actually harder to shift I'm guessing to avoid accidental shifting on rough terrain. This might be a hindrance to a casual trail rider.

DorkDisk

For me, Sora vs Deore is not at all about hierarchy but bike types. Sora is a budget road group, and M592 is a venerable MTB group; the gearing and intended riding speeds are different. With Shimano, one does not usually see much of a difference between one tier, but by two tiers you definitely do.

Dynasys' stiffer shifting feel derives from the resistance of the clutch mechanism. If one turns it off, the shifting is smooth as legacy shifting. It's not "harder" in terms of difficulty and not a big deal.

It's not just materials though; XTR, XT, and SLX have better shifters that allow one to upshift two gears at a time, release cable faster, and have more mount options. Light and stiff spidered cassettes are only in upper tiers; steel chainrings are super heavy. High end cogs, chainrings, and chains have low friction coatings which further enhance their performance and durability. Other parts have other advantages but one can see how shifting is improved by all the above.

Ultimately, high end gear performs better due to more features and is lighter due to more advanced materials.

hokiefyd 

In my experience, there are two "levels of shifting difficulty" above Shimano's standard "light action" shifting, only one of which apply in the case of the M592.

1. Shadow derailleurs. Every Shadow derailleur I've either owned or observed or ridden has a higher cage spring tension, which helps reduce chain slap to some degree. I own an M3000 derailleur (Acera level Shadow design) and have ridden a few others. The M3000 is not a clutched derailleur, but chain control over rough surfaces is still much improved over something like the M360 or M390, which were popular Acera level derailleurs prior to the M3000 series group. Having had both derailleurs (an M3000 and an M360) on the same bike a number of times, I can confirm that there is a non-trivial increase in shift effort at the lever. The derailleur springs are tighter and it takes more force to pull the cable. Upshifts (clicking down the cassette) are crisper and snappier (that derailleur is pulling harder against the ratchets in the shifter), and downshifts (up the cassette) take more effort at the shifter.
2. Shadow+ derailleurs (with a clutch). There's an obvious further increase in resistance to derailleur movement with an engaged clutch. With the clutch disengaged, shift effort should feel like most other Shadow derailleurs.

The M592 should be subject to point #1 above. It's a Shadow derailleur and should have pretty firm springs to keep chain tension relatively high. Though I haven't ridden one, I would expect a Sora derailleur to behave more like a traditional "light action" derailleur, with relatively lighter springs and less chain tension.

DorkDisk

While Shadow does have more resistance, my experience is that Shadow Plus with clutch off is as smooth as non shadow.

Spring strength varied over the years and has a huge influence in feel. Around 95 S started using very light springs, now they are strong again. I still think that Sora vs Deore is more about bike or riding type.

hokiefyd 

Now that Shadow has trickled down to Altus in the mountain groups, I wonder how long it'll take to do similarly in the road groups. I think it's down to 105 now...Tiagra uses a traditional design still. Though Shadow was originally marketed as benefitting mountain riders, I imagine all Shimano's derailleurs will eventually, with time, move to this style.

yo vanilla

Consider future plans for the bike. For instance, I've been looking into a new budget-ish wheelset for my 2014 Cannondale Quick6 with v-brakes. I haven't dug in really far but many of the wheelsets I've found were for disc brakes, with rim brake choices seemingly more limited. Another thing was I also considered changing from 700c to 650b, again having v-brakes was a limiting feature. On the flip side v-brakes might be easier to maintain... That said I would likely choose the 2020 model if it were me.